Just got my XM-3500Li

Happy Holidays! Let us know how the 6kW works out for you.

May You All Have wonderfull holidays and find ways to make life brighter and better in the new year LaTeR

Happy Holidays everyone, Good news on our conversion of a 35ooli to 93v pack. After long high speed runs 57mph all the stock parts are holding up. 65mph with slight downhill and tailwind. I agree that you realy don't want to go any faster on this frame though. Be carefull cornering at high speed it can start to shake on you. I may get a controller from Kelly and start working on regen braking. Thank you all for the great tips, I hope to give some back now. I'll keep you all posted.

Bill-

Hello & Happy New Year Everyone!

I just became the proud owner of the XM-3500Li. I have been spending hours absorbing all the post here, and have learned a lot. I have not taken my scooter for a ride, except to take it three blocks to put it in storage for the winter. I travel a lot for my job and my scooter only arrived 3 days before I had to go on travel for 2 weeks. I didn't want to leave my scooter parked in the front yard that long, only to come home and find it stolen. I had no problem with getting tags/title. But it did take some negotiating with my insurance agent (Allstate) to get a policy, because they didn't have an electric scooter in their database.

There were no physical defects, and I really didn't notice the throttle problem that others have been complaing about. I'm very puzzeled that many people here seem to have overpaid for the scooter. I took advantage of the discount given for pre-ordering the scooter prior to its arrival to the USA. There was also an additional 10% dicount that brought the price down to $3649.10; which includes the $50 home shipping fee. The MSRP I originally saw was for $4400

My order was placed through Alpha Products International/Xtreme Scooter. But the invoice was from GetScooters.

When I first called to place my order they thought I was a dealer, and mentioned the dealer price of $3300. But I came clean and told them I was not a dealer, but I wanted the additional 10% discound. They put up a valiant fight to play coy about what I was asking for, but I finally emerged victorious with my 10% discount...becaue I would not take "No" for an answer.

I have to now come clean. I stumbled upon a FAQ website. FAQ1 is for customers, but somewhow FAQ2(for dealers only) got posted, and it talks about this 10% discount on line 21.

http://www.thegostore.com/faq2.html

I'm sure after posting this message the FAQ2 will be immediately removed. But maybe this will help someone else.

This would be a good example of why dealers of X-Treme should not trust X-Treme.

$1999 for XM3500 Hey I posted this ad before, & this guy keeps coming down in price! If you live in the Northwest it is a heck of a deal.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/mcy/971419964.html

I have been busy with the holidays and snow, yuk not good to ride in. So I am back at it. I will hook up my 4 cell pack to make it a
24 cell set on the 3500, what the heck life is short so lets live now. Thanks so much Iccarus for doing all the 93 volt experimental work, now it is my turn to dive off the cliff.

Next week I will drop the scooter off at the shop to install the new 6kw motor, new controller, and new DC/DC converter.

Happy New Year Friends....Mikie

Late friday evening, I just finished hooking up 4 more of the same stock batteries and when I measured the voltage I got 80.6 that is a total number of 24 for the cell pack. I still have to put the scooter all back together and it is late here on Friday and my girlfriend is calling me away this weekend(away from my computer too). So if the weather holds I will take it for a spin on Monday. Do you guys have any idea if I can charge all 24 batteries with my stock charger? I do not think it is that easy huh? So what should I do to charge all 24 and what will my stock charger do or not do? Will it only charge up to some low percentage? Since I am planning on possibly adding upto 4 more can I buy a charger where I can choose the number of cells I am charging? eg 24-28cells? I know very little about electricity so if you can put your thoughts in simple terms that would help too.

Here is the box is came in USPS--pretty beat up.

Edit by Moderator: image seems to be missing from the users files.

Here is the wire side, the whole hub is a bit wider than the old one, I beleive I can bend the forks out to get it in, if not then
I will cut away the horizontal frame support widen the forks and reweld support back on.

Here is the brake side.

Here is the brake they sent me, I might as well hook it up, as I do not think it could be anymore squishy then the stock rear brake.

Ok I will check in on Monday and thanks again so much, we are making progress....Mikie

Hey Guys, because I have not heard from any of you about using my stock XM3500 20cell charger on the 24 cell pack, I will go ahead and
try it out. First I will check all the voltages and then begin the charge, the pack is pretty full now so I will not be in too much danger I presume. I will be taking the bike into the shop on Thursday since clear skies are predicted so the big mod should be done within the week. From what Iccarus has stated about his mod of a 3.5kw this mod should be quite the Beast at 6kw. I am still looking for feedback on the charger question: Charger recommendations for Li and be able to handle anywhere from 24 to 28cells? Thanks you ahead of time....Best Mikie

Well after repeated attempts at charging the 24cell pack with the 20 cell charger, no go. Immediately the charger shuts off, it must be the high voltage it reads right away and then shuts off....recommendations?...Mikie

mikie , check with hi power and or thunder sky for the appropreate charger > LaTeR

This is the charger you need: http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=80 (or one like it). You're right the 20 cell one is going to immediately cut out because of the higher voltage - AFAIK, there's no easy way of modifying the 20 charger to increase the voltage (but I don't know for sure).

Mikie,

If you are to be ordering that TS charger, do you think you might be able to squeeze the retailer for info on the charging algorithm? My impression from reading the charger webpage suggests that these chargers employ something other than a simple CC/CV mechanism. I'm still curious about what TS/Extreme meant by claiming that the charger has a BMS like function. BMS or just plain BS?

BTW, the Extreme/API paperwork that arrived in the mail allowed me to sail through the Mississippi DMV process without a hitch if anyone cares. This was a load off my shoulders as my past experiences with obtaining a title and tagging my LEV's in this state have been the stuff of nightmares.

Good fortune on the 6kw conversion; I look forward to reading about your speed record breaking runs.

Ben

Mikie,

Happy new year !

Pls don't try to use 24V battery in XM3500li,the controller will kill all battery.

Because low voltage protection is 52.5V/24cell=2.18 V,it will damage battery.

Motor will be overheated in summer.

And charger can't be fully charged,DC converter will damage too.

We have come out 24cell version scooters,it is 72V DC converter,72V controller and thicker copper winding motor and 24cell charger. Maybe BMS system....Speed approach to 100km/h

pls wait a few more weeks.

Dear Mtn Chen, thank you for your concern for burning out the controller/motor/DC-DC converter of my 3500li. There is another gentleman on this forum who is running your stock 3500 at 92volts and it is going strong. I am having a new controller,DC/DC converter added to my new 6kw motor I received from Kelly Controllers, so that all components will be within tolerance as I will only be running about 80Volts. On our last communication you stated that there was going to be a larger motor available by mid December and I waited but because I did not hear from you I ordered a larger 6000kw motor from china.

I am very interested in what looks like the BMS system that is on the handlebars of those scooters. Are you still unclear about the BMS system on these new scooters you sounded doubtful what is the status of the BMS?

Some people on this forum are looking at the new 5000li, what is your new scooter called and what size wattage is the 72volt motor? Is this the same frame as the 3500li? Thank you for your answers ahead of time and for being a part of this forum. Happy New Year to you and Happy Chinese New Year early! Mikie

No,new 72V motor would be 1-pc Aluminum alloy shell and 0.5cm thicker winding.

BMS still under testing,we won't push into market before it mature....except for several samples.

Hey Lenny et al....From my ride to the bike shop I would recommend trying out the 24 cell mod, buy 4 more batteries and it is a simple hook up. Next get a new charger 24 cell 40ah(as well as the batteries) from elite. You can do all this for Under $600 including shipping. Now you will be able to do the 50-52mph you wanted. You should be ok for the next 3-4 months and then when it heats up down south there where you live you can start monitoring the temp on the motor with with an infrared thermometer like I have. If it is getting too high (150degreesF?--maybe it wont)then you can start thinking about getting another motor. That is my advice to you all who want to get up to 25% more speed in the 3500bike. Thanks again to Iccarus for his lead. I should hear from the bike shop this week on the progress of the big mod....best Mikie

Hello all my fellow ev fanatics... Sorry It's been awhile but I've been very busy. Well where to begin. First thanks to this forum we have in which to learn from each other. Thanks for the heads up by Mountain Chen about the low volt cutoff issue. I didn't think of that one. Mikie that means you and I have to be careful of running our packs to low. Don't try to push it if it's starting to slow down, find a place to charge. I'm monitoring my cells so I don't really have to worry about it. Well me and my friend scott did a 40 mi. mixed driving trip on flat roads. It included a 6mi full speed run. I'm running 24 cells with an 87v charger from elite. I got 50/52mph on the speed run. My friend ran at 105v (fully charged pack voltage) and he left me behind at 55/60mph my bike was really slowing down when we got back, but I made it. Then we tried that mod on the controllers. I bridged two of the shunts in the controller and got considerably better pickup but no more speed. So far I've had no problems with my setup. DON'T up your voltage over 72v nominal if you mod the controller. My friend killed his controller doing a fast start from a standstill. We trailored them to Key West and had the best time driving around with gas powered scooters. We kept pulling up to traffic lights to say "my engine died" and then laughing as we pulled away from surprised motorists. I don't care what anybody says...I love mine, The quality control needs to get better and I think it is. Oh and by the way both our bikes have out of balance front tires anyone else notice this? We had a tire guy try to balance them but he got frustrated and gave up.
Sorry for the long post but it's been awhile.

Watch out for pedestrians who can't hear you!
Happy Riding Bill-

On the low voltage cutoff issue. We ran with 93v pack at full charge and ran the bike till the controller cutoff (several times) and the total pack voltage was 70v. The stock Lifepo4 batts were at about 2.56v. The other batteries were lithium polymer custom hobby pack they make for remote control aircraft. Four10AH 6 cell 22.2v wired parallel to creat a 22.2v 40AH . They were undamaged as well.(Thank God) So the controller must work on a percentage of startup voltage. Translated I think this means if your running the 3500li like me and Mikie you can run it till it cuts off without damaging the batteries. Mountain Chen? Anybody?
Bill-

At any rate, I don't have anything connected to measure voltage, beyond manually checking each cell with a voltmeter

Zarlor,
I'm not sure if this will be of any help, but I got an XB500 bike and after only a couple of weeks, the battery meter went belly-up on me. I later found the cause, and posted my repair record on my website.
The problem with my battery meter was a loose solder joint inside the meter. For a 48 volt pack, there is a 40 volt zener diode in series with the meter movement. One end of the diode had become un-soldered, and even though I was getting voltage to the terminals on the back of the meter, the meter did not operate. After re-soldering the diode, everything was fine.
Best thing for you to do is open up your dash and read the voltage at the back of the meter. If it's there, you know the problem is inside the meter... probably just a loose connection, and that's pretty simple to fix.

See my website for other details:
http://bergerweb.net/xb500/repairs.shtml

On the low voltage cutoff issue. We ran with 93v pack at full charge and ran the bike till the controller cutoff (several times) and the total pack voltage was 70v. The stock Lifepo4 batts were at about 2.56v. The other batteries were lithium polymer custom hobby pack they make for remote control aircraft. Four10AH 6 cell 22.2v wired parallel to creat a 22.2v 40AH . They were undamaged as well.(Thank God) So the controller must work on a percentage of startup voltage. Translated I think this means if your running the 3500li like me and Mikie you can run it till it cuts off without damaging the batteries. Mountain Chen? Anybody?
Bill-

How come controller cut off at 70V ? my controller cut off at 52.5V ,it is very dangerous !

I think I see the source of confusion now. So you have battery pack charged to 93 V. After some discharge, the no-load voltage is down to 70 V, During load, voltage drops below 52.5 V and controller cuts out. Perfectly normal, though I'd say you are stressing the pack a lot in this scenario. Is this what happens?

The Voltage at NO LOAD is not accurate,it is float voltage.

I believe this way will damage your battery soon. Did you measure battery cell by cell after some riding ?

Well I just got back from a 110 mile round trip through central Florida. I seem to get about 44 miles @33mph then your top end is about 15mph so you'll want to stop then. About the voltage under load... I was thinking about this very thing as I was riding back,watching anxiously as my voltage dropped at times. I am monitoring all cells with balancer/monitor cards. I mounted one of the 4 cards in front of the glove box so I can glance at it easily. The monitors cut off at about 3v and let me know it's time to stop. I don't think I have damaged my batteries yet. Fully charged my cells are between 3.33v to 3.38v. I have one that is staying down at about 3.29 I'm not sure about that one. I understand and will be more carefull now. Do you think I'll be ok if I just stop when my monitors start cutting off at 3v under load?
My front& back tire won't balance and my handlebars are out of alignment, and my brakes drag my "fuel gauge" stopped working after about a week and this is before adding 4 cells. So I would say it is fair to question the quality of the constuction of these bikes. I hope they get better. I think there's a great future in these. I love mine and look forward to future generations.
PS You meet interesting people when finding a place to charge on the road.
Happy Riding Bill-

Hi Mountain,

Does your system (screen display) also manage the batteries state, ie individual undervoltage cut off, discharge balancing, or just monitor ?

Just to clear up. Yes the 70v figure I gave was at rest (float)so it probably was cutting off at 52 under load. Then when we got it back to the garage and tested it... all the cells appeared ok at that float voltage. But I see now that it must stress the pack. I removed the extra 4 cells for now. I guess I need a programable speed controller. Since I can view all cell voltages with my cards I installed, I could just stop and charge when I'm getting close to LVC but I'm not going to. Getting a little fed up. Not ready for primetime.

I´m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there are actually a couple of construction error on these bikes.
The angle of the front fork is not steep enough, which make the scooters hard to turn and they feel unbalanced when driving.

You get more used to it after driving for a while and it doesn´t feel as bad when going fast.
But, it can cause some balance issues...

This is according to my experience in 2-wheelers, I might be wrong...

There is also another potential danger that you all should look into:
The 2 front fork "legs" are clamped with screws at top, on one of our scooters one of the screws had loosened and that "leg" had slipped up a couple of inches, nothing stopped it, bad construction.
The result was that you could only turn one way....really dangerous, be aware and check that these 2 screws are tightened!!