GPR-S

Designer:
I was in the middle of editing this and got cut out. Here's the rest.

I really don't know if the BMS they use at the shop is 110 or 220 or 110 with a larger than 15A fuse. I think you are going to have to wait for a definitive answer on how long the charge takes until after they settle on a speed and BMS charger. It's just an open question since the original manufacture hasn't delivered and may not ever deliver. I don't know enough about the Vectrix to answer your question there.

The sticker does say "This Vehicle meets all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Requirements at the date of manufacture." and then has the VIN below it. Texas is tough on that kind of thing and it passed both the inspection and registration. They also checked the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration(NHTSA) web site listing for approved DOT manufacturers. Thunderstruck Motors is a partner of EMS and offers "kits" one of which I assume is my configuration (Hot AC-15 yes Lifepo4, 50 ah, 72 volts 50 80 mph $9500) which I assume are not NHTSA approved. They are partners with EMS and actually installed the electronics in my bike. They have technical experts which participate in another site you may be familiar with; El Moto.net. Are you a member / familiar with that site? If not you might want to try it also. It's a very friendly site with several great technically excellent folks. I think the_omnichanic works at Thunderstruck and did part of the integration on my bike. They are technically excellent with these things and hold several NEDRA race records shown here:http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/records.htm. Todd Kollins record is:CV/H E-Boxer ,72 volts
Owner:ElectricMotor Sports
Driver: Todd Kollin 11.73 56.26 Kick Gas Festival
Barona,Calif.
October 12, 2008
That's found here:http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html
I think I may have said 58MPH before, sorry I my memory was slightly off. That's with the SepEx motor and I think Thunder sky batteries. That should give you an idea of the acceleration, although I assume the AC would be slightly faster. I say that with a little tongue in cheek as they may have turned up the gains on that bike, not worrying about longevity. That's another thing to talk to Todd Kollin about.

BTW I just checked the voltage after resting over night. It indicates 77.7 volts or 3.885 volts per battery. I'm not sure if that means anything. Is there an official way to determine "resting" voltage?

ChuckJ

John:
The first three are:1E9 but you need to use 1E9/456 to get the data base to pull up the correct registration at NHTSA: :http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/manufacture/

Note the license:

ChuckJ

Designer:
You got my curiosity up about the Vectrix and I found this thread on this site: "I recently got stranded after only four days of leaving the scooter unused, when I had to use my car to move some equipment for a few days. Charged the bike after use Wednesday night, left it plugged in Thursday-Sunday, when I took it out for a 20-mile round trip. I noticed right away that it dropped the first bar before I left my own block, and that it lacked the usual "zip" that I have come to love. It ran out of power after about 17 miles, whereas I can usually count on 30-40 miles from a full charge........" Arlo

I'm assuming that this was not highway at 65MPH from the write-up. If that were the case, I'd say the range of a Vectrix is considerably shorter than a GPR-S. Have you checked into the Vectrix's range at different conditions? Now you have my curiosity up to do a range test after the weather warms up.

ChuckJ

Designer:
How far do you have to travel (with margin), or is this an academic interest?

Chuck

Designer:
Sorry I took so long to respond. Thanks for the info, it's helpfull to know what you're looking for. I'll pass any data that I think will help.

Chuck

Designer (and other interested persons):

Below are the results of my first range test for the 20-battery AC motor GPR-S (GPR-S vehicles are also available in a 72 volt [23 battery?] version for those who need more range and / speed). This vehicle currently does not have a true BMS (they are backordered) and therefore the batteries were not optimally topped off. The controller is also intentionally set at a higher than required voltage cutback level (27 Vs 20%) to ensure protection of the batteries (slightly limiting range). That said, those who wish more range should probably consider adding more batteries rather than pushing the cutback level lower as the batteries will last longer.

Environmental Conditions:

Course:
The course (shown below) comprised of leaving a housing area (~1.5 miles) to a test area (~38.6 miles) and returning for a total of 66.97 kilometers or 41.61 statute miles as measured by a “Velocitek GPS. The trip odometer was also set which measured 40.1 miles by comparison. The dark square track area represents multiple trips around the same course. Note there is one stray straight line. That did not come from me falling asleep from boredom and going cross-country. It was caused by a GPS glitch where sometimes the GPS looses link for a second or two and then picks up where it left off. That messed up the average speed calculations as the data shows that leg was 793 km/hr. Also messing up the speed / time calculations were two stops in the housing area for friends who wanted to socialize. Speeds were at the posted speed limits, as traffic would allow. Accelerations demand more power / energy consumption so they were also counted. There were 66 slow 90 degree corners / stops that required accelerations. The accelerations were all at a reasonable, keep up with traffic “g” level, except for one “maximum effort” acceleration from 0 to 45 MPH where I wanted to get ahead of an approaching car. I think there were more starts and stops than most people would experience, but it's good to be conservative. At the “S” area of the course there is about a 75-foot drop to a low area and then a climb out to the end of the “S” area.

Results:
The Spyglass has several parameters, one of which is BDI (Battery Discharge Indicator). The vehicle began the course with the BDI indicating 100%. It ended the course with the BDI indicating 27%. The draft manual says not to go below 20%, but the controller’s settable speed limitation to conserve battery comes in before that on mine at ~28%. Clearly there are a lot of factors that determine range. For the conditions shown above, my 20-cell bike showed 41.6 miles for this test and could vary from my guess would be 35-50 miles depending on speed, terrain, number and degree of accelerations, rider weight, etc. It probably could stretch to 60 miles if there were very few starts and stops as they take considerable power, but I like a conservative test. Anyone desiring more range should consider one of the other two motor options or additional batteries. A friend of mine (who also monitors this forum) is getting an AC version with I think 23 batteries. It will be interesting to see the added benefits (maybe 15% - [57 miles?]). Anyone desiring an AC vehicle with ranges longer than that will require additional batteries. EMS would have to determine if that version would be available. The Spyglass also has a motor temperature parameter shown. Limits for this motor / controller combination are 160degrees C. The controller automatically begins to limit power to the motor at 145 degrees C according to the folks who integrated the electronics into the machine. The maximum motor temperature for the run was 70 degrees C.

Hope this helps.

ChuckJ

Designer:
"Average" is in my opinion misleading because of the large number of stops. Slightly less than half of the "circuit" (defined as 39 of the 41.6 total miles traveled) was done at 35 and slightly more than half was done at 45 MPH (minus the stops). The other 3 miles was was getting in and out of the housing area at 25 MPH with several stops.

The web site says 35/60 miles (power/economy) with a motor 1/2 the HP and the cutback / cutoff criteria for 20% BDI not 27:% (draft operator's manual requirement vs. BDI which was intentionally set high for my bike). If you account for the BDI difference, I guess you could get another few miles to maybe 56.16. Add to that 66 starts and stops, the 200 pound+ rider, 10 MPH wind, the full throttle acceleration to 45 MPH (from 0) and I'd say they were close enough.

That said, I did not do the test to validate their results. I did this as a conservative test for you to make an evaluation as to whether you could get away with a 20 battery version or need to go to a 23 battery version (my recommendation for you)- or you could look at a Volta coming out next year which has twice the battery capacity: http://www.evcusa.com/documents/RoadKing.pdf (I don't think I believe their acceleration specifications, or they won't be able to get your 65 MPH cruise desire).

Happy Holidays to you also.

Chuck

An update.
Electric Motorsport has solved their BMS supplier challenge and has integrated BMS boards installed in their ETEK GPR-S bikes. I'm looking forward to getting mine installed (although my pseudo BMS is working just fine so far).

ChuckJ

Lccarus:
I've asked Todd Kollin (main fuse) about drive belts. He likes them, but I don't think they have any near term plans to do that as they are more expensive and don't permit flexibility of changing ratios as easily. Most of the noise in the AC version comes from the motor. It sounds like a turbine. That said, at cruising speeds it's very pleasant and you can maintain speed by listening to the doppler.

ChuckJ

If you all didn't catch the news, a 96 volt, AC-15 powered GPR-S (mine is 60V) version of the GPR-S won the "Open Class" at the first electric TT race at the Isle of Man. Catch it here: http://www.egrandprix.com/index_nav.php?page=ttxgp2009results

ChuckJ