I ran across this on TreeHugger. There's a new electric motorcycle due out next year if you have $15k burning a hole in your pocket. The first ones will be carbon fiber so the price will drop to about $11k for the more conventional bike to follow on.
Brammo is an Oregon company that used to build supercars but they decided to save the planet instead. The specs look pretty good. Up to 50mph and up to 45 miles, but the range is actually more like 30 miles if you run at top speed. They decided to use the Valence batteries which might explain some of the price.
` ;)
Thanks, where do you see the affordable EV market going?
What are you thoughts on Jerome's After 7 Years of Service, We are at a Crossroads!
Peace Out,
Gman
Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
My crystal ball is notoriously cloudy. What I hope for the Enertia and the Vectrix is that they are well build enough and reliable enough to gain a foothold in motorcycle/scooter shops. This will do more to raise the profile of PEV than any number of internet-based, niche companies. I can also see them forcing up the quality of the Chinese imports. I think Emax and others can get away with some pretty feeble engineering and construction because there is not much to compare to. Even if these bikes stick at the $11k level at least they will prove that it is possible to build a vehicle that runs for a couple of years without maintenance. This should open up the door to a $5k scooter that's worth the price as opposed to the current crop of $2500 scooters that are worth about $500.
I think an affordable, practical electric car will hurt the growth of the of electric scooter/motorcycle market by peeling off the folks who are purely interested in the environment. You can haul groceries, stay out of the worst of the weather, and drive at night just like a gasser car. There is an efficiency difference between a car-sized vehicle and a scooter-sized vehicle, but it would take a rather extreme treehugger to base a buying decision on that. I think there will still be a market for enthusiasts and perhaps electric two-wheelers will appeal to some folks who currently drive ICE two-wheelers. That being said I don't see an affordable, practical electric car happening any time soon. Some folks like Mitsubishi are talking about 2009 so this really means 2011 or 2012. I am intrigued to see what kind of two-wheelers will evolve during this period.
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Full time ebiker
BionX and Wilderness Energy
"we must be the change we wish to see in the world"
The Brammo site doesn't seem to have much info on the bike, but... http://www.enertiabike.com/ ... that's the site, with specs. Weirdly they have it max'd at 50 miles/hr...??
Looks cool. And unfortunately the state of battery prices dictates a high price.
As for being "At A Crossroads" .. clearly the lithium-ION batteries are moving into a position where they can change the EV industry and make the EV more practical. With SLA batteries that motorcycle would be having a hard time having any range at a decent speed; but with LI-ION batteries you can have both. Except with this motorcycle ... a top speed of 50 miles/hr seems weird considering the claimed performance from Todd's motorcycle (also with Li-ION batteries).
But about the crossroads ... The truism is the batteries have held EV's back because you can't have a "car" with a 300 mile range that recharges while you pull into a "gas station" for a pee break. Tesla Motors made a splashy show of how the Li-ION batteries can deliver pretty darn close to that model, but at an eye popping price (unless you're a zillionaire who likes fast cars).
the current crop of $2500 scooters that are worth about $500 hmmm... last year when I bought my gas motorcycle, I was at the motorcycle dealer and talking about whether they'd carry my EVT 4000 for sale. I ended up describing it's specs, 30 miles/hr and 15-20 miles max, and that I thought it was worth $1000-1500 and they laughed thinking it was worth a LOT less. The motorcycle I bought, Honda Rebel 250, cost $2500, goes 70 miles/hr, has a 130 mile range, and refills during the length of time that matches a pee break. That's the kind of tradeoff EV's, personal or otherwise, would be up against before they can make major inroads. I'm a dedicated certifiable nut who is going a long ways out of my way to do EV's, when I could just relax and gain most of my goals by riding that Honda Rebel or perhaps getting a Prius.
But I think continuing the "Car" model is actually causing a range of problems which electrifying cars would only continue. There's massive land areas dedicated to cars, the roads and parking lots and so on, which would make for more efficient land use if there were more mass transit. And the use of cars encourages people to live far from their jobs, making for long commutes, and I think that causes emotional problems in those who are doing those long commutes.
- David Herron, http://davidherron.com/
- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
I guess my feeling is,
I like bicycles
I love motorcycles
I get excited whenever someone mentions a honda rebel, I am looking for a used one to convert to electric
http://www.marquecornblatt.com/art/cycle.html
I have seen several used honda rebels in $1000 range on craigslist. I really want to build the John Bidwell electric Rebel. The new etek with controller is less than $1500 with wiring and all. If I spend $3000 on batteries and charger, I am pretty sure I'll get 50 mph and a more than a 30 mile range. I figure about $6000 and I should have a very reliable around town commuter. And, the satisfaction of building it myself.
If you read that post, I believe he built it in a week, but, I might be confusing that with another rebel builder.
It won't have the range of gas, but for even a big city, should be a lot more practical than my ebike for daily transportation. Safer because I can keep up with traffic, and just plain fun because it is a motorcycle
[b]AGM BATTERIES[/b]
EV's are never going to be used for long trips. So an infrastructure to charge the vehicle when it it is parked would make limited range a moot point.
Someone told me that Fairbanks, AK has such a system - an outlet at many parking space or meters - to allow use of engine block heaters in winter.
I agree. Europe already has a hub-and-spoke arrangement for intercity travel. You take the train between towns and taxis, buses, subways, or foot in town. It's brilliant. We should really get started on something like this in the U.S. before we run out of dinosaur blood.
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Full time ebiker
BionX and Wilderness Energy
"we must be the change we wish to see in the world"
They can, and already have. Ever heard of a subway or electric train? Okay I'm assuming you mean BEVs. In that case, they absolutely can right now. Even with AGM batteries, which can be fast charged in 15-30 minutes if done right. Design the car very well, and you might get 50-100 miles range on the highway. Not that great, but good enough to atleast make BEVs practical for intercity but not really interstate travel.
Throw NiMH batteries into the mix and you can very easily get 100-150 miles range. Add fast charging capability, and the vehicle would definitely be practical for "long" trips, albeit still not as practical as the ICE for road trips.
How do you get EVs to be as practical for really long trips? An inductive pickup might work amazingly well if the idea was seriously researched and developed. Imagine a car that can travel forever on the interstate while metering something like $.03/mile. Thats about what the electricity would cost.
Definitely in the city, even with AGMs. But if you can't charge, range is everything.
The problem? We still have plenty of gasoline, so nothing is forcing us to do this. If our supply of gasoline supply became unreliable, than we would quickly adopt and begin using BEVs, and setting up fast charging.
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Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri
andrew,
there may still be plenty of oil in the world, but it's been a long time since the US has had control over it's oil supply. Just look at the news, the price of oil goes up every time someone starts shooting in Nigeria. I think the price of gasoline is about to become very unreliable.
-Crusher300
Silver EVT 4000e (60 volt) San Mateo, CA
-Crusher300
Silver EVT 4000e (60 volt) San Mateo, CA
Using gasoline is a problem regardless of how much exists or how cheap it is. I realize that people get into EVs for a lot of different reasons. It is a mistake for me to assume that all participants or that even the majority have the same views on global warming and the use of fossil fuels that I do. Or perhaps I just missed the thrust of your comment?
Either way I do not believe we can switch over to BEVs quickly. Until there is a market for them there is no reason to improve or refine electric transportation technology. This is the one area I believe that EV-minded treehuggers can help with: create a market so entrepreneurs can invest in new technologies and hopefully make a profit. I do not delude myself that the few individuals who make large efforts to reduce their carbon footprint are going to make a direct dent in the larger problem.
--
Full time ebiker
BionX and Wilderness Energy
"we must be the change we wish to see in the world"
Dave,
it seems this thread has gone way off topic, but I'm enjoying the discussion so much that I decided to start another thread in the 'Advocacy' section:
http://tinyurl.com/3a2g4n
Take a look at the article I linked to on www.renewables.com. I think this addresses many of the issues raised by the last few posts on this thread.
-Crusher300
Silver EVT 4000e (60 volt) San Mateo, CA
-Crusher300
Silver EVT 4000e (60 volt) San Mateo, CA