jealousy

my wife is telling me not to tell any one but i will carry out testing for you all give me the tests you want and i will do them .
there you go a full stop

one more thing on my grad mothers grave buy CXY on the ASX 7 days untill start up cathloic church brought %6 of a power company why? the cathloic church put all there super on it why? and iam not a cathloic.
ps think about it the cheapest form of power to man .

"But people already make '60V' mopeds with both 20 and 19-cell packs. '60V' in a moped/e-bike designation means 'equivalent to lead-acid 60V' or 'somewhere near 60V'. You can do that reasonably with either 19 or 20 cells. Those packs have nominal voltages of 60.8V and 64V respectively. There is nothing magical about the '60V'"

Thank you for illuminating my point that 60V is the Universal NOMINAL DESCRIPTION! Do the manufacturers use the word nominal in their description of 60.8V or 64V or do they call them nominal 60V scoots? Why don't you get it? Why do you insist on the incorrect use of the word?
The Emperor has no clothes?

Thank you for the information that some 60V mopeds have 19 cell packs. I haven't come across one yet. What is it? What does it use for a charger and controller?

fuck off with your 60 volt shit we are talking about 154 volts here fuck off tossa

While I don't support hibba's language on a public forum, I do support his sentiment.

You pedants of nomenclature are trashing a seriously interesting, practical thread.

Start your own thread damn it!

Better still, I'll start a new one about Hibba's Vectrix and you can have this train wreck

Exactly! Nominal Voltage doesn't mean anything. It's battery Voltage range, that is important. For TS-LFP40 its Voltage range is between 2.8V - 4.0V. This is all that matters.

And by the way, I was watching at those ThunderSky batteries before this and IMO, they do not satisfy the need of hard riding of Vectrix. They only provide max. 3C (120A) constant discharge. Here's a picture of Vectrix' discharge current at full acceleration throttle:

TS battery is rated for up to 20C pulses, but this is meant for really short pulses - a few second pulses. That's why, when my original battery died and I was watching for LiXX conversion, I chose Kokam High Power batteries, which provide 5C at 40Ah (200A) at constant discharge.

Andy, do you have a lithium pack in your vectrix?

I understand your concern about peak current draw an TS cells. That is the main reason I have procrastinated so long about a lithium conversion.

A123 sys cells look good, but building a pack from the cylindricals would be complex and expensive. The pouch cells are a bit cheaper but require supporting fabrication,are not a terrific fit in the vectrix battery box (anything over 40Ah would be fiddly) and hard to source.

The think is, I am so used to using moderate throttle that maintaining that to protect these cells wouldn't be a problem for me, and the potential extra range and being able to ride and charge in 35 degree plus weather would be a boon.

The Sky energy cells look like they have better high current capacity in the 40Ah cells for the same price

No, because I received a new NiMH pack under warranty. But I was seriously considering, if I didn't get a new NiMH pack, to convert to 38 x Kokam 40Ah LiPo.
Max. Voltage for LiPo is 4.2V, so at 154V max. Vectrix charge Voltage, that would be max. 4.05V per cell and would be well within it's specs. I'd also use a Schulze balancer, which is independent of the charger, it actively balances cells and is powered off the cells it's balancing.

with my new voltage gauge with built in ipod max current was 110 amps well under 120 max off the TS no stress here boys with current draw under harsh testing trust me hibba just buy cxy and we can all put lith in our bikes

110A was that constant speed at 100km/h or peak?

The above graph (full acceleration from 0 to 100km/h), I posted, is X-Vectrix' and it doesn't lie.
You can see, that max. current draw reaches 250A. Anything above 125A is red lined. When the bike reaches 100km/h, current stays at aprox. 110A, exactly what hibba reports, because it just needs to maintain the speed; no acceleration is needed anymore.
And this measurement was on even ground. Going uphill, it draws even more.

If you like to accelerate fast, drive hard, drive fast, TS is not the battery for you.

"If you like to accelerate fast, drive hard, drive fast, TS is not the battery for you."

Sure, these cells would probably have a hard, short life if you flog them. But there are few other choices considering price, availability and ease of fitment.

This discussion is mostly conjecture. Hibba has a lithium vectrix, lets see what it does in the real world instead of pouring over spec sheets.

Of course.

Sorry Andy, I was a bit short there, must be the jealousy getting to me :)

For me, I'd happily trade the Nimh pack that can do rapid acceleration for a 25km range because that doesn't meet my needs.

I have a 64km return commute. The Vectrix can just manage that with a charge at 32km if I moderate speed and throttle use, and then, I can't ride on days where the temp is over 35 degrees because I can't safely recharge at the temp.

If the Lithium cells remove the temp limit AND give me a bit more buffer on the range that would serve me well, even if I still have to ride it carefully like I do now.

A123 pouch cells are available via 'cell_man' on endless sphere, so not that hard to source any more, in the US at least. That doesn't solve the packaging or sizing (or cost!) issues, but their performance is excellent.

Sorry about the off-topic side-thread. I foolishly thought that it was possible to explain to Reid why his simplistic view of the subject is not sufficient, but I was wrong. Clearly further discourse would be a complete waste of time so I'll shut up. Hibba's language is fine, so long as it's punctuated :-) Hmm. OK. Maybe I am a pedant.

Here's a picture of Vectrix' discharge current at full acceleration throttle:

Now this sort of picture is what I want to see! Thanks for posting. Are the units for speed MPH or KPH? What are the units on the x scale? Are they sample numbers? They can't be seconds - because if so, the VX-1 accelerates really slowly!!! (0 to 50 takes from approx 53 mark to 149 mark).

If this is max acceleration then 0 to 50 should, by manufacturer spec, take around 6 seconds. I've never seen performance that good (I can't remember if it's 10 seconds or 8 seconds). So, from this graph I guesstimate that the amperage is only over the 3C rate for less than 10 seconds. Not too bad.

I think antiscab is aiming to use 60Ah cells? If so, his 3C rate (180A) will only be exceeded for about 70% of hibba's.

It looks to me like the 40Ah cells should be OK and the 60Ah cells definitely so. Obviously much more testing would be required and for that we have hibba :-)

Go hibba go!

(p.s. sorry for my part in the painful extension of the "nominal wars")

The one and only test I want to see is how far can you go at 50 mph!

Aprox. 35 miles.

I think antiscab is aiming to use 60Ah cells?

What manufacturer is he using? Is there a link to the cells he's using?

iam just thinking what number plate to put on it .( lith ion ) may be, or RUNSONSUN

"The one and only test I want to see is how far can you go at 50 mph!"

that would depend on the current draw, and that would dependon acceleration and terain.

a Vectrix factory theoretical equivalent distance would be about 48 miles. I don't expect real world results to be anything like that. More like andys number.

Does anyone know the constant throttle current draw of the vectrix at 50mph on a flat road?

Hi, here is a little graph wich might help. The data is from the Forum but i actualy dont´t know which post it was.
I put it in a EXCEL shet. Sorry I can´t tell you how correct it is.

Greetings Mike

Here is my take on "jealousy": A freshly assembled 9-cell module of the finest of AZVectrix' cells! All at least as good as the better cells in the original pack!

Soon I will have tested the rest of them and put together a second module, then drop it into the Vectux and have a good stock battery for the first time!

The Vectux will then remain parked for Summer each year, allowing 9 months per year to ride in almost perfect conditions for the NiMH battery.

I'm so glad for you to have a chance to drive with a fully capable battery. You've endured so much, you certainly deserved it.

Hi, here is a little graph wich might help. The data is from the Forum but i actualy dont´t know which post it was.
I put it in a EXCEL shet. Sorry I can´t tell you how correct it is.

Greetings Mike

This graph is a bit to linear, but in the right direction. The wind resistance and the power needed to move the object through the air increases by the power of 3 in regards to speed.
So, if I draw 30A at 70km/h, to drive 80km/h, you'd need to draw 45A = 1,5 x power needed at 70km/h.

It's simple math.
80*80*80 = 512000
70*70*70 = 343000

512000 / 343000 = 1,49 ( = factor of increase from 70km/h -> 80km/h).
So, if I draw 30A at 70km/h, you need to draw 30*1.5 = 45A to drive 80km/h.

"a Vectrix factory theoretical equivalent distance would be about 48 miles. " I know what the factory pack gets, which is about 30 miles of range at 50-55 mph. What I want to know is what his LiFePo4 pack gets! If he can double his range that would be fantastic for me. I use my Vectrix back and forth to work most every day which is 25 miles round trip I get home with a bar or two left. But I have to use the Jeep for any trip longer then 25 miles. 60 miles of range would be perfect I almost never drive that much in a day. If the Vectrix could get 60 miles of range at running around speeds my biggest worry would be the starting battery in my Jeep going dead from lack of use.

Matt, how do you plan to configure the SE60 cells in the battery box?

if the 40AH cells can't get 80km range at a constant 60km/h or 60km at 80km/h, I'll need to look at these.

The TS60 cells look easier, because they are about the same width as the TS40s, so they should fit the the same as the 40s in width. 2 layers high would mean mods to the battery box cover, seat and step thru panel. hmmm

the SE 40 cells seem to sag a lot less at 120A http://evworks.com.au/tech/ThunderSkyVsSkyEnergy/, do you reckon there are range/life advantages in that?

cheers

Jason

"What I want to know is what his LiFePo4 pack gets!"

Me too!

Trouble is, no data in yet