The battery of my Vectrix does not load completely

Hey oob...my scooter does exactly the same as yours and has since day one too.

when the red light comes on, however, if i turn off the key then on again, it shows no bars.

Caught me out once, but not twice :) I now know that 1/3 is empty and so is 121v

My Vectrix just starting doing this a month or so ago. I have 8,000 miles on the '07 VX-1. When attempting the equalization charge the charger will fill the batteries up to the last 2 or 3 bars on the fuel guage without a significant increase in the battery temperature, but while attempting to complete the charge and fill the last couple of bars, the temperature shoots up dramatically, the charger finally gives up, and I'm left with a hot battery pack, and only partial charge.

I believe I'm seeing the same issue as oobflyer. I purchased my 2007 Vectrix used a couple weeks ago (8400 miles), and everything with it has been fine up until today. The battery was already 2/3 full and I went to charge it, and it was going through the equalization cycle, and when I came back to it (after about 4 hours) I noticed it was charging at 3 amps and the trip read "BATHOT" and the battery indicator was flashing. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the fans. I can hear them running, but perhaps they cut off during the final charge cycle. The temperature was at 50 C and is slowly falling. I'm currently performing a delayed charging to force the fans to stay on (they cut off after a while otherwise when not plugged in) and my Kilowatt is telling me the Vectrix is using 51 watts. Can anyone confirm they see this same number when just the fans are running for the delayed charging? Has anyone been able to solve this issue? Thank you for any info you may have.

-Ryan

and my Kilowatt is telling me the Vectrix is using 51 watts.

This is the standby consumption of the charger. Completely normal.

and when I came back to it (after about 4 hours) I noticed it was charging at 3 amps and the trip read "BATHOT" and the battery indicator was flashing

I'm sure there's a problem.

I'm currently performing a delayed charging to force the fans to stay on

good move, but:

I'm not sure if this is a problem with the fans.

Please ensure that you can hear both fans runnning. When they start running it is quite easy to hear them both.

R, thanks for your response. I'm not 100% sure both fans are running. My ear tells me that only one is running. Unless they are perfectly spinning at the same RPM, I would think you'd hear a little interference in their noise, like when two noises with slightly different frequencies clash. But perhaps I'm wrong, and the fans are running perfectly in sync.

I found a local Vectrix mechanic (or use to be) here in Austin, TX, and he told me I should feel air blowing out of the front and the back of the scooter. To test this, I plugged the Vectrix to charge it as normal, and in two places I felt a significant amount of air being expelled. For reference, these position are from sitting forward-facing on the scooter:

1. Just under the left rear shock absorber
2. Directly above the front wheel fender on the right side, next to the right shock absorber.

When I mentioned the 51 W figure, I was trying to use that to see if a fan was not running. Although, if one fan is stalled, it would still be consuming current, more current even, so that may not be a good way of determining if both fans are running.

I'm just not exactly sure where the fans are located. Are they next to one another? Is one in the front and one in the back? In the picture below, I placed a piece of paper in front of each intake, just to ensure each was sucking air, and they both are. Does this tell me both fans are running?

Thanks again for the help.

When I mentioned the 51 W figure, I was trying to use that to see if a fan was not running. Although, if one fan is stalled, it would still be consuming current, more current even, so that may not be a good way of determining if both fans are running.

I'm just not exactly sure where the fans are located. Are they next to one another? Is one in the front and one in the back? In the picture below, I placed a piece of paper in front of each intake, just to ensure each was sucking air, and they both are. Does this tell me both fans are running?

Hi Draftpunk,
the 51W is the sandby-power-consumption of the charger (at least of the old models), the fans are powered by the battery via the DC-DC converter.
So there is no difference in powerconsumption if the fans are running or not when the charger does not charge.
One fan is more in front of the pack, one is more in the rear. If only one fan is running, both intakes are "sucking air in" only weaker and the airstream in the battery is stronger in the area of the running fan.
Greetings Mike

draftpunk: Covering front grills won't enable you to check if both fans are running. Even if only one is running, there will still be air suction at front grills.

What you're looking for is if air is blowing out at both rear shock absorbers. If it blows only at the left or only at the right one, one fan is not working.

I had this problem, which I wasn't aware of, because I didn't know, that there needed two fans in the battery compartmend be running. I heard a fan below the battery cover and I thought that was ok. It wasn't and I cooked my battery twice, before I got my plenum replaced. Unfortunately, because of this, one of the battery packs, which got cooked (one fan for each battery pack), lost some of it's capacity. That meant, that when I got close to red light, that one of the pack was critically low on power, while the other pack still had plenty of power left. Because of that, the empty one was additionally damaged, which resulted with even less capacity in that pack, which resulted of that pack being empty even faster on the next run.

That resulted in my first battery pack lasting only for 4000km. However, back then, I was still running on older software, which cut power from the battery to late so that expedited the failure of my battery. We (on this forum), had many battery failures with the old software, but no one at only 4000km, so it's obvious, that my battery pack died even earlier than others' because one of my battery pack got cooked above 50°C.

If both packs would be cooked, I don't think the harm would be that big, because, they'd both lose the same amount of capacity and I wouldn't get one pack depleted, while the other still had power. Maybe I'd lose some range, but I wouldn't get further deterioration of one pack.

Read this post: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7132-fan-differences-between-1997-vx-1s#comment-40554

The Laird explains well how to test the plenum fan operation.

If you don't want to take the seat off, you can check the operation by feeling for the exhaust air stream at the front end of the rear wheel. This is difficult and will only be reliable if you have felt it on a working Vectrix before. The air-stream always feels a bit weaker on the left side when both fans are running. When one fan is out, you can still feel a little air flow on the side of that fan, but much weaker than normal.

The easiest way to check is by listening at the moment the fans start. It's very rare that they start exactly at the same time. The start-up current drops the voltage so that the fan that starts a micro-second later will then delay it start time by several seconds, until the first fan has reached almost full speed and is drawing less current. It is easy to hear if you concentrate on it in the first 10 seconds of the plenum fan operation.

I'm starting to wonder if my loss of range is due to a charging problem and not a battery problem.

By the time my charging process finishes my battery shows btwn 139 and 141v. Yesterday battery temp was 20 deg and by the time the charging cycle finished it had only gone up to 22, so it sure wasn't working hard.

Does that sound normal or abnormal? I expected 145v or even more by the end of a charge.

AndY1: I can only feel air blowing out of the left side of the rear shock absorber. The highest temperature I read when my overheating incident occurred was 49°C, so I imagine this permanently damaged the cells to a degree, but hopefully it's not too severe. I found the specs to some NiMH batteries that had operating temperature ranges up to 60-65°C, but I have no clue really.

Mik: I may try taking the seat off tonight to get a better look. If anything, the air stream is stronger on my left side at the front end of the rear wheel; I barely feel anything on the right side. I've recorded a short clip of how it sounds when I first plug in the charger. Feel free to listen to it and confirm to me my hearing isn't crazy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzyxBgU_w58

I just took the seat off and here's what I found.
The first thing that stuck out at me was a dangling connector shown in the pictures below.

There wasn't much slack for this connector to move around, and I couldn't find anything close to it that it could plug into, so perhaps this connector was never connected to anything. The voltage on the connector was about 1V when I probed it while the Vectrix was charging. However, the voltage did jump around a little so perhaps this is not DC, maybe it's for an LED or something.

The next thing I did was disconnect the 3-wire connector directly below the seat, as shown in the picture below. I heard exactly 1 fan turn off, and it felt like it was right next to this connector. What I measured on this connector was a ground, 12V, and another 12V. This makes me think this one connector should control two fans.

After I disconnected the 3-wire connector, I could faintly hear a fan still running. This was the fan in the front, and I could feel air blowing blowing near the front right shock absorber. I believe this is the #2 fan mentioned by The Laird in this thread. When the plenum fan was running, I could only feel 1 distinct vibration, this reaffirms to me that only 1 plenum fan is running. Is there a post someone could direct me for replacing this fan? The next thing I'd like to try is apply 12V to each motor and see what happens, but since the connector was getting two 12V signals, I think the power is getting to the motors.

AndY1: I can only feel air blowing out of the left side of the rear shock absorber. The highest temperature I read when my overheating incident occurred was 49°C, so I imagine this permanently damaged the cells to a degree, but hopefully it's not too severe. I found the specs to some NiMH batteries that had operating temperature ranges up to 60-65°C, but I have no clue really.

It's not the battery temperature that one should be concerned about, but the temperature difference between cells. By having only one (out of two) battery pack cooled, the temperature difference can be very high (25°C vs 50+°C) and that's what causes:
1. Packs' State Of Charge (SOC) is very different
2. Due to cooking of one battery pack, that pack has been damaged somewhat, causing lower capacity of that pack. That means, that at the next full discharge (to the red battery telltale), that pack may get over-discharged, because Vectrix only monitors overall battery Voltage.

So in case you're interested, I found the model of one of the plenum fan motors. This is the one that was not working for me. It's located directly on the bottom side of the battery cover.

Apparently this British site sells the motor, so maybe I'll buy it from them.

So in case you're interested, I found the model of one of the plenum fan motors. This is the one that was not working for me. It's located directly on the bottom side of the battery cover.

Apparently this British site sells the motor, so maybe I'll buy it from them.

The first thing that stuck out at me was a dangling connector shown in the pictures below.

Yes I've seen this connector in my 2007 unit. I guess it is from the Fuel cell preinstallation.
Anyone knows how is the vectrix suposed to charge the battery with the fuel cell/gas generator?

So in case you're interested, I found the model of one of the plenum fan motors.

thanks,very useful. Are you sure the problem is in the fan motor? Did you test the motors with external 12v?

thanks,very useful. Are you sure the problem is in the fan motor? Did you test the motors with external 12v?

I am pretty sure the problem is in the fan motor. I confirmed that 12V IS being sent to the motor, and I even applied 12V externally to the motor, and it still would not spin. I wanted to check the wiring of the motor a little more, but it isn't easily detached from the wiring, and I'm still trying to see if my dealer will replace it, so I didn't want things to appear they'd been tampered with. I just found out my Vectrix is still under warranty...

I just found out my Vectrix is still under warranty...

Good for you!

For about five months now my Vectrix has been charging only partially. The range is now only about 20 miles. Vectrix hasn't offered any further assistance, but to be fair, the bike is out of warranty.

I spoke with an electrical engineer that works on medical equipment, specifically x-ray equipment. The portable x-ray machines have an electric motor and battery pack, so that the machines can be "driven" down the hallways. Although the top speed is about 1/2 mile/hour, the principle is the same: battery pack/electric motor/BMS/on-board charger, etc.

When I described the symptoms of the charging problem that my Vectrix is exhibiting he immediately recognized it as a classic sign of bad cells within the pack. He has fixed this same problem on x-ray equipment, by identifying the bad cell(s), replacing them and rebalancing the pack.

I have approached him with an offer to him to fix my bike and he is studying the Vectrix service manual right now. He has told me that if he thinks he can fix it - he'll try to do so.

One of the critical deciding factors is the availability of replacement cells - does anyone know if it is possible to buy individual replacement cells?

One more note: Vectrix told me that I also have the choice of replacing the entire pack. One option is to buy a NiMH pack (for $3,500) that has been removed from a VX-1 in the process of converting the VX-1 from NiMH to the new Li-ion VX-1 Li. The other choice is a brand-new NiMH pack ($5,000). By my math, I will break even if I can swap out the battery pack (for a new one) after riding about 20,000 miles. I'm halfway there at 10,000.

The other option, of course, is to just trade it in on a new VX-1 Li+ :-)

Hey Oobflyer

you could also buy a second (-hand) vectrix (there are some for sale in the designated area on this forum) and you probably will get a good return when you can sell the individual parts (of one vectrix) online.

but there are, or at least, were some individual cells for sale among people here on this forum..

did they also tell you a price for a LI pack?

did they also tell you a price for a LI pack?

Hi Guys,

I'm thinking of selling a conversion kit for Vectrix's that started life as a nimh bike.
Looking for expressions of interest at this stage,

The kit will include all bits required to get it to work (including some new plastic panels, BMS, new bolts for the temp sensors) and a ~ 5 hour long video of me doing a conversion, so in theory you won't have to pay a workshop to do the work.

The kit won't include the 42 x 40Ah Thundersky cells, as sending cells from china to australia, then onwards back to Europe or America isn't all that cost effective.

who would be interested in paying US$1500 for the kit?

The 40Ah cells would add ~US$2000 to the price for American Customers, since Thundersky now sell directly in that market. Cost for the cells will varying with where you are exactly and who your favorite supplier is.

I will also be looking to pay US$400 for your old nimh battery (in any condition) depending upon the cost of sea freight from your location to Australia.

Matt

Hey Matt,

I would consider that, but not immediately:

-if my battery turns useless (I can only guess WHEN that is going to happen of course)
-and if, by then, there isn't some other, very cool, high quality, affordable bike on the market. (I don't think that is going to happen fast)

what kind of BMS would you include?

$3,500 for a Li-ion Vectrix - sounds like a good deal. Any estimate on the specs? Range? Charge-time?

I am interested.

Turok: No, I didn't get a price for the Li-ion upgrade from Vectrix. I was told that it would be "expensive" and "extensive" - of course they are encouraging people to just buy a new bike, rather than re-make the old ones...

Turok: No, I didn't get a price for the Li-ion upgrade from Vectrix. I was told that it would be "expensive" and "extensive" - of course they are encouraging people to just buy a new bike, rather than re-make the old ones...

You would think that now that they are owned by the battery manufacturer, they would not care how they got a battery pack sale. In a bike or separate. Sigh.

Hey Antiscab,

I found an engineer that is willing to do the conversion on my bike - when do you think your kit will be available?

Hey Antiscab,

I found an engineer that is willing to do the conversion on my bike - when do you think your kit will be available?

Probably in a couple of months,

I will make a video of a conversion first, and improve the documentation some, to make it possible for the average person to DIY at home.
Your Engineer probably won't need that, since they should know what they're doing.

I have to sort out the 4 conversion I'm already doing first :)

I will make a separate thread for the conversion kit.

Matt

just come to CHL low impedance LFP battery,we test in Swiss on Vectrix scooter with 30cell40AH battery,it is double range than Ni-MH battery

Hola Xavii, I'm from Barcelona.
Can you describe in detail the problem of your vectrix?

Hi XAA,
Quite strange, something makes the charger stop the charge... We need to know why. Anybody knows if there's an internal log inside the vectrix?

II can't to be viewing the display for 4 or 5 hours, to say what message or color light that appears

Sure... makbe you can install a small webcam to record 1 frame per minute? It's just an idea...

A very poor support of Vectrix, I wrote them an email and nobody reply me and my dealer didn't offers me a solution. When I can use my Warranty, when my bike does not move???

Who Did you contact? Goinggreen?