My new 4000Li makes a humming or almost subtle grinding noise when I first take off. Has anyone else experienced this?
It also arrived with a little bit of road rash, which I expected from either shipping or it being a showroom display model. But otherwise it is beautiful and wow what an improvement over the xb-700li. It is built with far superior quality and feels absolutely solid, whereas my 700li should have been nicknamed "Elvis". It would rattle shake and roll over every tiny bump.
Also, after 19 months and over 3000 miles, the batteries on my 700li were in rapid decrease mode. My range brand new was at least 25 miles, and is now around 12 or less. Anyone have experience with the durability of the 4000li batteries? The two year warranty certainly gives me hope. If my range has dropped to half by the end of that two years will they replace them for me under warranty? Thanks for reading!!!
Okay, so maybe nobody else is having the humming motor noise problem. After 15 miles of riding it appears to be subsiding.
My full voltage charge is 70.7. Does that seem about right? Manufacture date on my 4000li says 12/08, so I am concerned about the batteries being 2 yrs old at the time I received it 4 days ago.
You picked up the red 4000-li. [grins]
I got their blue 5000 that was the floor model. Those two deals were great. I got my 5000-li for $3000! [woo hoo!] My batteries seem fine for being the same date. And my motor makes the same clicking at low speed starts. I think it's just the hall effect sensors.
I used to get flashing on the low voltage indicator at any amount of amp draw "acceleration", but now I have to pin it pretty hard to have it flash. If you roll on the throttle, you can keep the amp draw low enough that the low voltage indicator won't flash. drafting helps too [evil grin]
Many electric scooters make a humming noise in low-speed, high-torque conditions. My eMax certainly did. It would be hard to say if this is a problem or not without comparing it to a similar scooter.
"we must be the change we wish to see in the world"
Yes I picked up the red 4000li, showroom display, fully assembled. Did you get the Bill of Sale with your blue 5000li? I have tried calling them several times and opened a ticket, as I need a Bill of Sale in order to title and register it. I had 14 miles on the my 4000li, and a little bit of road rash, or shipping scuffs, which are all fixable. Overall I am very pleased with it. Huge improvement over the 700li, and that is putting it mildly. Solid with no rattles and great acceleration. I live in Phx where it gets 115 in the summer...am I going to have problems with the overeat ????
The paperwork didn't come with it. I had to contact the seller to get them to send it. It arrived a week later. DMV went without a hitch. They just wanted to check out the bike.
I had a scrape on one mirror and a pit/fracture on the front fairing. They said they would replace it if I sent them pics. Just haven't gotten around to it.
I have ridden mine 30 miles in a single distance at constant full throttle and not had any overheats. The summer will tell. It's just 70's here now but the Ocean air is nice and cool in the mornings and afternoons. Since your pulling less watts, you should produce less heat then me. Summer in Arizona will definitely be the "acid test" though.
Thanks Bozman! Who did you contact to get the Bill of Sale??? I have emailed xtreme and greenmax numerous times now, and tried calling them daily. No response...
I got mine through advancedelectricscooters.
The contact info I used was sales [at] advancedelectricscooters.com
So, I have the XM-4000Li. You need to contact the Customer Support people as X-Treme scooters.com, www.x-tremescooters.com/support/ I don't have the Customer Support email here. I am not sure for AZ but in CA you need the MCO, Manufacturer Certificate of Origin, MCO. To get that you need the VIN number which is on the side of the battery box. Also, you need to convince the DMV people that the number on the side of the hub is the engine number. All the batteries have a date code on them. The first 6 digits are the date, 081124 for Nov. 24, 2008. The last 5 digits is the serial number, the code is just under the bar code. Under the seat, remove the cover in front of the storage compartment. Just 2 screws.
Thank you Zig! I tried the email address you listed and finally got ball rolling. I should have my Bill of Sale and Owner's Certificate today or tomorrow.
After riding the 700li for the past 19 months, I am thrilled with the 4000li. There is no comparison in terms of quality. The 4000li feels solid and powerful. My full charge voltage was 70.9 the first charge, and is now up to 74.9 two weeks later after the cells have started to balance (I assume?) Is there any danger in leaving the charger plugged in overnight? I have seen it cycle on and off, even after 6 hours of charging.
Also, my headlights become brighter when I hit the brakes. Is that solely due to lack of draw on the battery pack, or does the 4000li have regen like the 700li did?
Hey, great, I am glad your XM-4000 is running good. Mine had a battery explode and now I am waiting for Green Max to send a replacement.
None of these scooter have re-gen. Did you ever try to measure the amount of charge you get from re-gen? I like the regular motocycle disk brakes. When you grab the brake handle a micro-switch cuts power to the motor. Think run-away Toyota. So, I think you are right about the lights getting brighter because no load on the motor. My batteries charge to 66 volts. Yours must be fairly new. You are very lucky to get new batteries. I got my scooter back in Aug. and the batteries are from 2008.
The charger is matched to the batteries so "should" be OK to leave it connected all night.
Yes I always measured the regen voltage on my 700li. If "coasting" voltage was measuring 51.0 it would quicky jump to about 53.8 when the brakes were applied. So I always felt the regen input was substantial.
My batteries from 2008 as well I believe. My date of Manufacture says 12/2008. Aren't we supposed to have a 60 volt system on the 4000li? Your 66 volts at full charge sounds about right. I was suprised to measure 74.9 after my last charge.
I leave my 5000 plugged in all night pretty much every night.
Thank you for all of your help! My registration at the DMV went off wihout a hitch. Here in Phoenix AZ they don't even need to inspect the bike and gave me registration, plates, and in state title after seeing the Bill of Sale and Certificate of Ownship. It was a very simple process.
One more question. This being Phoenix AZ with summertime temperatures easily reaching 110 and 115....what exactly is the overheat shut down temperature for the 4000Li motor? I believe someone said 120 or 125 F Degrees. Is that correct? When I get off work and get ready to ride home at 4pm, the temperature in the shade is already approaching that. So am I going to have a problem riding it in the summer?
I have ridden my little 700Li the past two summers with zero issues. Apparently that little 700 watt motor never overheats. But 700 watts is a far cry from 4000 watts.
[None of these scooter have re-gen. Did you ever try to measure the amount of charge you get from re-gen?]
I put a kelly controller on my 3500li and run it at 24 cells. I also rigged up a cycle analyst and have seen an average of 7% return on regen. to recently 24% on a neighborhood run. I used a 0v-5v thumb throttle and a relay for the variable regen brakes. There's pics on another thread.
Link http://visforvoltage.org/forum/10845-where-get-controller-xm-4000li
It's at the bottom, it works great.
Bill-
PS that setup is 28 cells (54mph) I made a mistake that cost me a 4 pack so I'm back to 24 now.
2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS
KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycl
As far as i know, the noise is cause by the quality of the controller.
On my 4000 li it makes noise too :)
xm4000-li
That is EXACTLY right!! The "grinding" sound comes from the pulse width modulation happening in the transistors. With my 5000w I swapped out the original controller with a sevcon G8035 ( http://www.sevcon.com/ac-controllers/gen4%E2%84%A2.aspx ) AC controller made a MASSIVE difference. There is ZERO noise from the motor or controller now at ANY speed. Plus the ability to handle 350Amps really gets you moving too!!
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eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller
24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -
I also have the noice on my Thunder 5000w when starting and stopping (i.e. at low revs) as well as when using the regen.
@pcarlson: Was the swap from the original controller easy ?
I would have thought that you needed to swap the motor as well if you changed to an Sevcon AC controller, or did your 5000w scooter come with an AC motor from the start ?
Usually, I think, they are equipped with BLDC-motors ?
/K
Funny. Just sent pcarlson a message regarding that. I think it is wierd too :)
xm4000-li
Looks like the "grinding" in this case is more like a (well-muffled) two-stroke-like popping noise, and normal. If it's *actually* a grinding noise, and the motor doesn't work smoothly, it is probably a loose magnet in the motor. Keep that in mind for future questions. I know, because the motor in my XM-3000 had a loose magnet when it arrived. The whole wheel assembly had to be replaced.
Okay?? That sounds annoying.
All those cheap controllers grind/hum :) It is the mosfets as i have read.
xm4000-li
Simple reason: the cheaper controllers (Kelly and lower) commutate (switch motor coil polarity) in a rectangular or trapezoid fashion. Immagine hammering a rectangular signal into your hifi amplifier, and your speakers will sound very similar to our motors :-) This is due to the very high frequency content of such a signal form (talking Fourier now...).
More sophisticated controllers (like Sevcon Gen4) resort to shaping the current into more of a sine wave that contains pretty much only it's own base frequency and makes the motor turn very smoothly and almost silent in operation.
I posted the follwing graph I once put together in another thread already but will show it here again to make it more clear.
In both cases the mosfets switch on and off like mad in order to vary voltage and thus current. The longer they are on in relation to off the higher the voltage and thus current through the coils. This is called pulse-width modulation, PWM in shorthand.
But from a functional point of view there is nothing really bad about the simpler rectangular/trapezoid commutation. The noise can actually make your ride a little more noticable to the ignorant public. But the sine wave approach is a little more efficient, as creating noise means loosing some of the electrical energy that is thus no longer avaialable for creating propulsion.
My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW
Oh the way to fix that huge problem is to convert the front wheel into a 200W sub wolfer and play snoop doggy dog wrap music at 100db. Works great and the chicks in hot tights are always looking my way wondering where the heck the dance club is.
Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7
MEroller: Very nice explanation, thank you! :)
xm4000-li
Interesting. I was going to say, the familiar zing sound doesn't bother me, as people will walk right in front of you in a parking lot if you aren't careful as it is. I wonder if the amount of power saved would be enough to power a system to actually create a sound to let people know you're their, I doubt it. I realized a few years ago that being COMPLETELY silent isn't allays a great thing The Sevcon sounds nice. I don't like what they want to charge for an interface for programing though. At Kelly this is free. Glad to see some good competition going on though. My biggest beef with the industry is we should get a longer battery warranty on such an expensive item that is alleged to last so long. I mean really? A 1 year warranty?
2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS
KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycl