Dead MC board

I had a similar problem with the throttle reversing a while back it was caused by a red wire that had rubbed through and shorted against the rotating shaft on the electric motor
You will find the red wire in a loom that goes to the optical reader ...have a look at that

Hello,
never reverse the battery polarity at the controllers connectors ! The red wire from the battery (positive) must be connected to the big fuse. The battery wires are crossed on the way to the controller ! No one knows why Vectrix did this .
If the motor goes reverse instead of forward direction maybe you have connected the 3 motorphases in a wrong way ?

regards

Klaus

If all except motor direction of rotation seems normal, it is very possible that you did NOT return the 3 large electrical leads from the motor to exactly the same positions they were at first. ( Reversing or switching positions, of any TWO of the motor leads will also reverse the motor rotation!)--- To correct the problem, disconnect the battery connector, wait about 30 minutes for the capacitor charges to discharge, and CAREFULLY remove and interchange any TWO of the heavy wires to the motor, making certain they are fully and properly secured and tightened, then, use a device to limit charging current, and carefully re-connect the battery, after this, rotation should return to normal.

Yes, the leads seem to be placed back in the original configuration!-Are the ENCODER LEADS also attached as at first?? If anything upsets the phase relation between the motor and encoder, rotation can be affected. Are there any wiring changes relative to the OLD controller board?--Carefully compare them.

Hi Allan,

I assume your Vectrix has a NiMH battery and you did install the cover and both impellers were running when you charged the battery and it got to 47degC.
If those assumptions are correct, then your problem is the old "Recharge after BALPOR" issue: A recharge after a battery low point reset, in which the charger tries to force 30Ah or more into a battery that has a lower capacity than 30Ah. Perfectly normal that the battery gets hot in these circumstances, and very bad for the battery.

Regarding the wheel turning the wrong way round:
Considering that the motor controller and the encoder don't know each other yet, I think a encoder calibration is what will fix your problem. There is a magic sequence to do this involving key, brake levers and throttle. It's somewhere in the handbook. The rear wheel needs to be off the ground for this so it can rotate during the procedure.

Edit: I found it: http://visforvoltage.org/book/ev-collaborative-hand-books/10431

What you need to do is the Motor Phase Test and the Motor Encoder Calibration.

For when you get the new fuse: You do not need to take the rear battery to pieces to get it out. You need to make some sort of lifter to attach to the tops of the studs that hold the rear battery modules down, then lift the rear battery out. However, it's very heavy and a hoist is a good idea.

Wow Allan that is great news. Well done Mik - I should have thought of that.

Allan, I really hope all your angst and hard work (and expense?) is rewarded with much happy motorcycling. Without wishing to gush too much, your perseverance and ultimate success is an example to us all and a credit to you.

As a side note, how have you got on with the ZEV in the meantime?

Best of luck. Martin Winlow.

Congratulations Allan, it's good to hear the gamble paid off and you got it going for a fraction of the cost of a new motor controller.

Dead MC board update.
I have decided to buy a secondhand slightly damaged board (not as bad as mine) and get a company to repair it here in the UK. I'll keep you posted on the out come.
My thanks to everyone here on V is for Voltage as without your help I would just have a pile of scrap. Many thanks to Dan & Scott for their extra help and at least now I have hope and a smile back on my face :-)

Did you let them have a look at the old damaged MC board as well? I'm still not convinced that it cannot be fixed...

The low voltage limit of the older software is lower, allowing you discharge deeper and at a higher rate

the downside is reduced battery service life

Matt

Hallo,

I'm working for the official VECTRIX Importer in Austria (MP-ecodrive GmbH). We have brandnew Motor Controllers and other spare parts in stock. In the last months we could help many customers with difficulties in organising spares, software problems and with pre delivery vehicles.

From deep conviction about electric mobility and as VECTRIX veteran we deal despite difficult times, especially with this topic.

If you choose the option to replace your Motor Controller, don't hesitate to contact us for a offer.

KR,
Gerald

Hi Guys,

just a bit of an update

Allan kindly sent me this dead MC board for the cost of postage

I was able to repair it yesterday

Basically I used a dremell to cut away the burnt plastic, like I would for one of the phase connections.

The interesting part was electrically reconnecting the positive to the board, both for power for the bike, but mainly so the ceramic caps could do their job at keeping the voltage stable while the IGBT is doing it's switching

I soldered two eye crimp terminals onto the positive traces, after scraping off the conformal coating.
Today I put the repaired board back into service in a friends bike, whose MC had died (IGBT module on his board failed internally)

Incidentally, replacement IGBT modules can had fairly cheaply here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MITSUBISHI-PM300CLA-060-MODULE-1pcs-Refurbished-PM300CLA060-/111026348332?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=...

Also, I am now selling replacement studs

Mine are made out of tinned copper (not steel), much the same as the terminals on the new MC versions

I hope this to be the final solution to MC boards burning out at the terminals

Matt

Hi Guys,

just a bit of an update

Allan kindly sent me this dead MC board for the cost of postage

I was able to repair it yesterday

Basically I used a dremell to cut away the burnt plastic, like I would for one of the phase connections.

The interesting part was electrically reconnecting the positive to the board, both for power for the bike, but mainly so the ceramic caps could do their job at keeping the voltage stable while the IGBT is doing it's switching

I soldered two eye crimp terminals onto the positive traces, after scraping off the conformal coating.
Today I put the repaired board back into service in a friends bike, whose MC had died (IGBT module on his board failed internally)

Incidentally, replacement IGBT modules can had fairly cheaply here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MITSUBISHI-PM300CLA-060-MODULE-1pcs-Refurbished-PM300CLA060-/111026348332?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=...

Also, I am now selling replacement studs

Mine are made out of tinned copper (not steel), much the same as the terminals on the new MC versions

I hope this to be the final solution to MC boards burning out at the terminals

Matt

Good job!

How much are the replacement studs?

The IGBT's that you've posted are refurbs - is this ok ?

I will have to let you know when I install one, but it should be

The last one I bought was from china and I think that was second hand too

a brand new one is ~$40 more, if you're concerned that would be the way to go

I would be interested in what is involved in refurbishment
I have a few IGBT modules that have failed internally - not burnt out but the thermal cycling has caused the gates to become detached from the heatsink resulting in the over temp cutout being activated under acceleration, particularly at low speed

you don't normally see that failure mode till after 30'000km or more (the IGBT module used isn't designed for an automotive application with significant thermal cycling)

Given that many bikes are reaching that extent of use, I'm expecting to see a bit of a run of people with bad IGBT's

How much are the replacement studs?

I have to get a quote on getting them tinned - but I'm looking at $8 - $10 per stud.
That would include a M5 bolt, and you have 3 choices of size:

16mm long for if you want to cut a hole in the board and bolt directly to the IGBT module
10mm long for if you want to just replace the original steel studs
28mm long for if you have had to repair a burnt out terminal and had to re-drill a hole in the copper tab coming out of the IGBT module

getting them made is surprisingly labour intensive

I'm getting copper tube cut and drilled on a lathe, then electroplated with tin

the copper studs I'm using have a conductor surface area of 107mm2, so should run cold (the battery interconnects on the nimh battery are 45mm2 for reference)

Let us know when they are ready, please. They'll go in the next time the MC board is out for some reason.

Let us know when they are ready, please. They'll go in the next time the MC board is out for some reason.

They're ready:

There's presently 3 sizes:

$7.50 - 10mm - can only be used on negative terminal and centre phase terminal
$8.50 - 16mm - for left and right phase terminals and the positive terminals, and any terminal where the PCB has been cut away
$9.50 - 28mm - for where a burnt out terminal has been repaired and a new hole had to be drilled in the IGBT module

Included is the correct size M5 bolt (between 10mm and 20mm longer than the stud), a pair of nordlock washers and if needed, a nyloc Nut.

the nyloc is only needed if you have cut away the backside of the IGBT module

I use www.auspost.com.au for shipping

the outer diameter of the studs is 12.7mm

Matt

Let us know when they are ready, please. They'll go in the next time the MC board is out for some reason.

They're ready:

There's presently 3 sizes:

$7.50 - 10mm - can only be used on negative terminal and centre phase terminal
$8.50 - 16mm - for left and right phase terminals and the positive terminals, and any terminal where the PCB has been cut away
$9.50 - 28mm - for where a burnt out terminal has been repaired and a new hole had to be drilled in the IGBT module

Included is the correct size M5 bolt (between 10mm and 20mm longer than the stud), a pair of nordlock washers and if needed, a nyloc Nut.

the nyloc is only needed if you have cut away the backside of the IGBT module

I use www.auspost.com.au for shipping

the outer diameter of the studs is 12.7mm

Matt

Very nice!

What would you suggest as a preventative modification?

I think it might be best to drill / dremel out all 5 terminals, so that the board is gone and the terminals connect straight to the undamaged IGBT module.
So 5 x 16mm needed?

What would you suggest as a preventative modification?

I think it might be best to drill / dremel out all 5 terminals, so that the board is gone and the terminals connect straight to the undamaged IGBT module.
So 5 x 16mm needed?

The Positive and negative connections can't be drilled out, regrettably, at least not until we can work out a good way to solder the new studs to the board

but the 3 phase terminals, dremmelling out would be the best

I mis-measured the required stud lengths - I forgot about the washer and spring washer between the stud and the PCB

so that's why the 10mm versions exist - you need minimum 12mm to clear the hall sensors (although you can use the 10mm ones, the lug on the wire just bends down.

the 16mm versions were supposed to be for when you dremel out the holes for direct connection to IGBT, but they actually need to be minimum of 18mm long.

the 28mm stud is the correct length (thankfully)

I'm waiting to see what kinda demand there is for these lugs before committing another $700 to making a second batch

Matt

I just discovered using a Panel drill for the phase connections is *way* easier and faster

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3Pcs-HSS-Steel-Large-Step-Cone-Drill-Titanium-Bit-Set-Hole-Cutter-4-12-20-32mm-/141300309767?pt=LH_Defau...