ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

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MrTinker
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ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Hello , Just picked up a eRider LightingBolt
New into EV’s but have been around mechanics my whole life, with a severe interest in solar and power walls

Year 2011
mileage 11000 kms
price in the back of the van $450.00 AU

it was a non-runner on Gumtree and the owner said his son plugged it in one day and it “sparked” then would not charge I worked out that his son had been using it at the time . humped it home and with the fantastic help of Johnny J on this forum we worked out that the DC/DC box had gone bad due to the a bad connection on the 72v in feed. I also manged to get the the charger to burst into life[bad cable to wall]and last but not least when I bypassed the Dc/Dc box for a test and fed 12v into the line. it still would not run, no lights no indicators etc. this turned out to be the side stand pin in the switch had fallen out/gone missing so with the sacrifice of a Philips screw drive and angle grinder ..sorted!

I would like to know who on this Forum has an Ozzie spec eRider either active or not , its really hard to find the spec information for the Ozzie ones

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Johnny J
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

450, that's a steal! ;-)

Did the battery charge up to the right voltage now?

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I would like to know who on this Forum has an Ozzie spec eRider either active or not , its really hard to find the spec information for the Ozzie ones

Phil Carlson of Canberra I believe started probably the longest thread ever on this forum about his erider Lighting bolt and the adventures he has had with it. When you have a day or so to spare head over to his thread and read it from beginning to end ;-)
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/11326-erider-8000w-scooter-australia-similar-xm5000li

Is your green Monster also of the PDT spec? Plug-in Drive Tech was an Isreali Company that pimped Chinese erider e-Scooters with a CAN-bus box, and erider Australia also imported those PDT models. In Spain Bereco is another importer of the PDT spec erider (now under the efun roof) scooters.

EDIT: Sorry, of course you have the PDT spec, their Logo is prominently displayed on your avatar :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Phil Carlson of Canberra I believe started probably the longest thread ever on this forum about his erider Lighting bolt and the adventures he has had with it. When you have a day or so to spare head over to his thread and read it from beginning to end ;-)
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/11326-erider-8000w-scooter-australia-similar-xm5000li
Is your green Monster also of the PDT spec? Plug-in Drive Tech was an Isreali Company that pimped Chinese erider e-Scooters with a CAN-bus box, and erider Australia also imported those PDT models. In Spain Bereco is another importer of the PDT spec erider (now under the efun roof) scooters.
EDIT: Sorry, of course you have the PDT spec, their Logo is prominently displayed on your avatar :-)

__________________

Thanks for the info regarding “PDT” I am trying glean any information regarding the story of the Ozzie versions and I am new to this scene so I’ve got my Big ears on. There is so little on the internet regarding people’s experiences other than battery time and it seems all the eRiders they have sold have vanished into the morning mist.

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

yes The batteries came right up with in a couple of hours , The Voltage now after being charged up yesterday 79.9v while charging 87.4v just off charge 82.1v what are your thought on these numbers, till I get the DC/DC convertor in the mail[$10 bucks] I cant hit the streets... unless I stick a 12v bypass battery on my knees!

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I just picked up a Pirelli SL26 tyre for sweet sum of $20.00 as it was a Brand new “take off “they normally run about $50.00. The reason why was because the scoot still had the factory ChengShin on all round, now there is nothing wrong with this brand but there is a lot wrong with the Nylon version. I have had experience with Nylon Tyres before on a Bajaj Chetak, they last 100,000kms and have a grip like Black Ice! . Plus the rear one has been run with low tyre pressure and has the “wave” which is forgivable on the rear but can be a killer on the front
This Pirelli should stick like sandals on melting tarmac road

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

what is the info on fitting the tyre to the rear with the motor hub is there a special way ??

I just picked up a Pirelli SL26 tyre for sweet sum of $20.00 as it was a Brand new “take off “they normally run about $50.00. The reason why was because the scoot still had the factory ChengShin on all round, now there is nothing wrong with this brand but there is a lot wrong with the Nylon version. I have had experience with Nylon Tyres before on a Bajaj Chetak, they last 100,000kms and have a grip like Black Ice! . Plus the rear one has been run with low tyre pressure and has the “wave” which is forgivable on the rear but can be a killer on the front
This Pirelli should stick like sandals on melting tarmac road

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

yes The batteries came right up with in a couple of hours , The Voltage now after being charged up yesterday 79.9v while charging 87.4v just off charge 82.1v what are your thought on these numbers, till I get the DC/DC convertor in the mail[$10 bucks] I cant hit the streets... unless I stick a 12v bypass battery on my knees!

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The voltage seems about right, but I would still measure each cell separately to be sure they are in the same range.

No special way to mount the rear tire, you should have some connection box somewhere where it's quite easy to disconnect the cables to remove the motor.

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I am surprised your DC-DC-converter went bust, this is the single most reliable component on my erider Thunder - it is the sole working survivor of any electronic device on the scooter since day 1! One thing of course could kill it prematurely: always switching the scooter on and off with the lights on. That is something this converter does not like, but it may be happeing due to the PDT CAN controller.
Hub motor tyre change requires disconncting the three motor phases and the hall switch connector from the motor, as Johnny already wrote. Yout tyre guy should have a turntable which can be equipped with three higher clamping jaws, as the motor sahft will sticking out the bottom. Then you should bring along a fitting wrench to keep the axle from turning while the tyre is taken off, and hold the cable in your other hand. Like this tyre change of the hub motor is a piece of cake. The ChengShin work wonderfully on dry and clean tarmack or concrete, but when it gets wet you might as well go ice skating. Where they come from is probably the Gobi desert with hardly any rain at all :-)

Your battery voltage after charging does indeed speak for an ideally balanced pack, but like Johnny said individual cell voltage should still be measured, just to be sure.

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

I ma looking for information... I will installing the new rear tyre shortly and have been looking at the rear hub, worked out the electrical connection disconnect and the wheel look as easy as any Motorbike to remove. BUT what is it with the slotted bracket that allows the rear hub to travel up and down for adjustment? also how do I tell if the hub is a 5000w or a 8000w .. trying to lean as much as I can. thanks for any info

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MEroller
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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

BUT what is it with the slotted bracket that allows the rear hub to travel up and down for adjustment? also how do I tell if the hub is a 5000w or a 8000w ..

Do you realize the amount of torque that this driveshaft (in this case it is statically fixed to the swingarm, but is nevertheless the drive shaft) must somehow transfer to the swingarm? That can easily be 180Nm and even more!!!
The swingarm is too thin to bear that kind of torque transferred by the two flat sides of the drive shaft. That additional bracket adds substantial load bearing capability to the swingarm.

The motor appears to be the same one currently driving my Thunder. It is officially rated at 5kW mechanical max. power, but in my Thunder esily peaks at around 8kW mechanical. I still have not been able to find a suitable dyno for this 13 inch hub motor, but have done multiple full acceleration runs while measuring and logging my Cycle Analyst that give me a pretty good idea of the mechanical power that this beast puts on the tarmack. Coil and magnet temperature are the main power limits.

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Do you realize the amount of torque that this driveshaft (in this case it is statically fixed to the swingarm, but is nevertheless the drive shaft) must somehow transfer to the swingarm? That can easily be 180Nm and even more!!!
The swingarm is too thin to bear that kind of torque transferred by the two flat sides of the drive shaft. That additional bracket adds substantial load bearing capability to the swingarm.

The motor appears to be the same one currently driving my Thunder. It is officially rated at 5kW mechanical max. power, but in my Thunder esily peaks at around 8kW mechanical. I still have not been able to find a suitable dyno for this 13 inch hub motor, but have done multiple full acceleration runs while measuring and logging my Cycle Analyst that give me a pretty good idea of the mechanical power that this beast puts on the tarmack. Coil and magnet temperature are the main power limits.[/quote]

Thanks for the info , so as long as i put it back in the same position in the slot all is good. I cant seem to find anyone with one of these that is active on streets or the web around these parts to learn from

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Pardon my ignorance of these bikes, but on any other vehicle I've seen, the axle would be intended to sit at the very top of that vertical slot, not partway up. Horizontal slots are usually the ones intended for adjustments. Are you guys sure it wasn't just tightened in the wrong position...?

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Pardon my ignorance of these bikes, but on any other vehicle I've seen, the axle would be intended to sit at the very top of that vertical slot, not partway up. Horizontal slots are usually the ones intended for adjustments. Are you guys sure it wasn't just tightened in the wrong position...?

Please say more do u have Pictures of other set up's? I agree they normally go Horizontal with chain bikes that is why this confuses me.. the only thing I can come up with its the ride height??! Because it does not matter top bottom or in the middle for strength , Maybe I am wrong but could it be "wheel centering" due to the Low spec config frames allowing Lots of adjustment to stop it crabbing down the road [out of alignment]

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Looking through my pictures, this was the only one I found, quality not great..

xx.jpg

Found this one though and I would say that the wheel should be as far up as possible:

Bracket.jpg

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

If it does turn out to be in that location because of frame alignment issues, I suggest you find a bolt that will just fit into the gap above the axle in the mounting bracket, and install it there to prevent the axle from slipping up under high loads. If there isn't room for a second bolt and nut head, you can use the other bolt to make a pin, and use larger washers on the axle end(s) to hold the pin in place.

By the way, that scooter body appears to be the same one used in the ZEV 4000-7100 scooters. The frame may be different, but the forks and brakes are probably the same, along with many of the smaller pieces.

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

My older, flimsier and probably cheaper reinforcement looks like this:

It is however closed at the bottom, thus keeping the motor from dropping out once the single fixing bolt is mounted. I always fix my motor in that lowest position, thus ging me maximum leverage with that bolt. I made it's hole in the reinforcement oblong to allow active rotary pretensioning, thus taking all play out of the system and ensuring the big nut does not wriggle lose and damamge the remanants of thread on the axle. Which has all happened before...
All that rust comes from neglect and year-round riding, come rain, come salted, snowy, slushy roads, what-have-you.

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Looking through my pictures, this was the only one I found, quality not great..

xx.jpg

Found this one though and I would say that the wheel should be as far up as possible:

Bracket.jpg

Thanks for theses Pics, this looks VERY similar if not identical to the setup I have .. what does yours look like all skinned up and the Model name it goes under ?

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

My older, flimsier and probably cheaper reinforcement looks like this:

It is however closed at the bottom, thus keeping the motor from dropping out once the single fixing bolt is mounted. I always fix my motor in that lowest position, thus ging me maximum leverage with that bolt. I made it's hole in the reinforcement oblong to allow active rotary pretensioning, thus taking all play out of the system and ensuring the big nut does not wriggle lose and damamge the remanants of thread on the axle. Which has all happened before...
All that rust comes from neglect and year-round riding, come rain, come salted, snowy, slushy roads, what-have-you.

Great information .. how many Kms do u have on this setup now as its seems its your “daily” and is the Hub motor the original? , as to the rust , yeah lived in the UK and this what it would look like after 18mts! When I lived in Arizona it would NOT look like this after 20 years due to the lack of humidity and only flash rains hence the reason they store all the planes there . Here in Queensland on the east coast of Oz it has high humidity and things do rust but you have to be negligent to let it get out of control . An example is this Scoot it was made in 2011 and has 11000kms on it and you see the rust that is there

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

This thumbnail should take you to a gallery of my old ZEV 5000LA. This photo shows the little rectangular plate that appears to lock the axle into a similar slotted hole. You should be able to look at other photos of the bike there as well.

//i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa386/LeftieBiker/ZEV%205000LA%20Photos/th_ZEV-TrunkSnap2.jpg)

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

This thumbnail should take you to a gallery of my old ZEV 5000LA. This photo shows the little rectangular plate that appears to lock the axle into a similar slotted hole. You should be able to look at other photos of the bike there as well.

//i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa386/LeftieBiker/ZEV%205000LA%20Photos/th_ZEV-TrunkSnap2.jpg)

Thanks...........

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

As I awaiting the delivery of the 72vDC/12vDC box I am sure you are aware I decied to go through the whole bike and let’s say add some Patience to the build , like grease on the nuts and washers behind the screws and learn about this thing…So many question s to ask as I discover the hidden workings. I marked all the snap connectors as I noticed right away that colour to same colour went right out the window.

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I then came across this box a realized that it was after market or an upgrade.. what is it?

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thanks for any info

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

That would surely be the Israeli PDT Canbus box.

Picture of my scooter, sold it a few months ago:

IMG_1259.jpg

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

That would surely be the Israeli PDT Canbus box.

Picture of my scooter, sold it a few months ago:

IMG_1259.jpg

Thanks for that Johnny , I shall go away and research all about PDT? canbus boxes.. If u dont ask u wont know I say. The Scoot pictured I guessing is basically the same frame, hub motor as the one I have correct ? what year of manufacture is this scoot. I have located the factory in china that they all seem to come out of

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Yes the frame is a little bit different, motor etc. is the same, no PDT though.
This is also a 2011.
The factory is located in Xiamen, I have been there, think it was around 2009-2010.

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

.. how many Kms do u have on this setup now as its seems its your “daily” and is the Hub motor the original?

Sorry, apart from the DC-DC-converter that apparently died on your bike, and the main frame, EVERYTHING had to be changed at least once, for those two components to reach over 21 000 km. I am on my third motor, whereby I just repaired the second one. And I swaped the rear swingarm for a newer one from a donor bike I have sitting in my driveway.

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Yes the frame is a little bit different, motor etc. is the same, no PDT though.
This is also a 2011.
The factory is located in Xiamen, I have been there, think it was around 2009-2010.

still getting my head around this PDT thing in simple English what is the difference with or without it/one?

I am impressed that you made your way to the factory , obviously it wasn't just on a "sight see" and shows your level of interest on this subject ..nice

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Thought I would show a “fix’ as I have been asking for only one way traffic with all the questions that I have been asking.
As I don’t know where to source parts from yet regarding Plastic panels, lights switches unique to this vehicle I had to come up with a “Bush Repair” as it is called down here. The light switch for Off-Marker lights- Headlights positioning Toggle had sheered right off at the casing. A beer and a think and Bingo!
Drilled 3 holes using a number one [1] drill into the shaft with a dermal. Then cut the same drill bit shaft in to three [3] pins ,
I then got a cable tie cut the end off .
Mixed JB-Weld and dipped the pins in to the JB and then placed into their holes. I then placed the cut off head of the cable tie over the pins a flooded the cavity with JB-Weld… Job Done..Sorted!
I did notice that the cast housing is a standard engine powered unit as it has all things in place for a throttle wheel and mechanical cable .. Those smart Chinese

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Well done on the switch repair. I successfully installed an in-the-bar type horn button assembly in the switch housing of a Suzuki GS450 last year, and it's satisfying to do a job like that. Is you search Ebay for switch assemblies, you will see quite a few Chinese universal units. The trick there is to match the wires...

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

Well done on the switch repair. I successfully installed an in-the-bar type horn button assembly in the switch housing of a Suzuki GS450 last year, and it's satisfying to do a job like that. Is you search Ebay for switch assemblies, you will see quite a few Chinese universal units. The trick there is to match the wires...

Thanks... to get this Scoot spinning the back wheel I had to do another Bush repair as I stated in the opening link. After I had done all the Sherlock Holmes that I could I reverted back to my internal combustion engine experience of motorbike/cycles on why it would not go and released that as per code you can’t go forward with the side stand down, I am old enough to know before this code and had seen guys go down the road with the side/kick stand down and Pirouette on the first bend and land on there ass. So When I went looking the pin had fallen out of the switch. I looked around and Mic’d up an old Pozi screw driver, same OD bingo sorted!
yeah I could have used aclean/blank section of the shaft ..But I liked the "Bush" Look

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Re: ERider 5000/8000W Lighting Bolt - Australia

still getting my head around this PDT thing in simple English what is the difference with or without it/one?

Have you worked your way through Phil Carlson's thread as I recommended already? I am fairly sure he reported on some of the things that this CAN box does, and if not him it may have been PDT themselves who commented on that.

You might also want to check out this thread:
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/10104-test-report-plug-drive-tech-highway-legal-scooter
You know, you CAN actually type a search code such as PDT into the search box at the top of this page, and then off you go down PDT memory lane ;-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

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