VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

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rewski
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VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Anybody in Denver, CO or near want the newest Vectrix software loaded on their bike? I just got the VIP software upgrade kit sent to me and have it for the next week or so if you want to update your bike. Let me know. I'm going to update my bike this weekend. I'll take a video of the process and post it here.

Adam

rewski
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

The update process worked flawlessly. I made a short video of the update process and posted it to YouTube. Instruction said it could take up to 15 minutes...it only took about 5 minutes from start to finish. Per Dana Decosta I'm the first customer to get the device as they just got this service up and running.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGWwK2wXiTM

Let me know if anybody has any questions.

Adam

Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint

AndY1
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Wow! Nice video, thanx!

I'd love to update my V's software like that. My dealer is 400km away and he's not even Vectrix dealer anymore. Next dealer is even farther away.

rewski
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Wow! Nice video, thanx!

I'd love to update my V's software like that. My dealer is 400km away and he's not even Vectrix dealer anymore. Next dealer is even farther away.

Andy,

I'd try to contact Dana (let me know if you don't have his contact info). From our exchange in email and on Facebook (yep I'm his Facebook friend) it sounds like this may be the new way they get the software updates out to customers. He shipped it directly to me and included a return shipping label in the box. And you saw in the movie how easy it was to complete the update.

Adam

Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint

AndY1
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Thank you for your suggestion. Unfortunately I'm in Europe and I guess the shipping costs would be to great, even if he'd be willing to send it to another continent ;-)

I did hear about VIP program back in October 2008, when a Polish engineer came to my home to replace my battery plenum, when one of my battery impellers wasn't working.

rewski
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

I would still try to contact Dana. You can offer to pay return shipping or even both ways if you really want the update. The device is pretty small so shipping should not be too much. Much cheaper than Dana or another technician making a trtip to see you :)

Adam

Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint

The Laird
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Hi Rewski,

I have viewed the video on 'youtube', it is interesting.

What, exactly, does this new software do? The V.I.P. thingy seems to simplify the update process BUT it also keeps anyone/us from having any clue what is going on or indeed, going in.

My nasty suspicious nature is suggesting to me that this is perhaps, another method of keeping the customer 'in the dark' whilst appearing to be 'helpful' with new software.

Does anyone know exactly what changes the new software is bringing to the Vectrix scooter? The 'four' programme changes imply (to me anyway) that all parts of the new software will only work with each other, and we will lose what little control we have gained over the behaviour of the electronics (so far only the charger but the motor controller is the next hack). This does not bode well for us as, so far, our experience of the output of the vectrix software engineers is not good. Far to many foul-ups have been perpetrated already, will this be the Daddy of them all?

I am guessing, but I don't know, that the 'new software' will include some programming that will deny access with the Diagnostics Programme. After all, a lot of people now have a copy of that diagnostic programme and that is not something that manufacturers are likely to be pleased about. Just Guessing

Or am I just being difficult?

Keep smiling folks :-)

The Laird

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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

I would still try to contact Dana. You can offer to pay return shipping or even both ways if you really want the update. The device is pretty small so shipping should not be too much. Much cheaper than Dana or another technician making a trtip to see you :)

Adam

Unfortunately, our customs officials very much like to charge customs and VAT even though it's not a purchased item. If you don't provide an invoice and they can't find the item on the internet, they set the price whatever they see fit and charge customs tax, VAT and their service for the set price.

Even though, I'd be ready to pay for that, but as Laird said, it would be nice to see the software's Change Log.

yamez4u
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Rewski, I would like Dana contact info, My dealership is well out side my range, here in Tennessee and I would love to have the extra 6 miles per hour!

rewski
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Rewski, I would like Dana contact info, My dealership is well out side my range, here in Tennessee and I would love to have the extra 6 miles per hour!

PM sent! Good luck.

Adam

Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint

neopav
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Hi Rewski!

I am an italian Vectrix owner and, like Andy, I have bought the bike from Vectrix Verona, which now does not exist anymore :-(
Anyway, I already own the CAN BUS cable and the software necessary to reprogram a Vectrix, I just need the new software (and not the whole "plastic box" to be connected to the Vectrix), so if I could contact Dana, maybe she can just email to me the new software, without expensive spedition fees to Europe.
Also, and now I am talking to AndY1, having the software we can meet in Croatia (where I go every now and then), if you can get near to me, and I can then also update your Vectrix. (I think you live near Croatia, in Slovenja, right?)
So please, Rewski, can you please PM me Dana's email?
Thank you very much!

AndY1
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Hi and thank you for your offer! I live in Slovenia, which is on your way from Italy to Croatia. If you go to Croatia via Ljubljana, we can actually meet :-)

P.S.: If the new software brings nothing else than 110km/h speed upgrade, then it's not such a hurry for me, since I don't push Vectrix faster than 70km/h (1C) (since I got a new battery).

rewski
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Hi Rewski!

I am an italian Vectrix owner and, like Andy, I have bought the bike from Vectrix Verona, which now does not exist anymore :-(
Anyway, I already own the CAN BUS cable and the software necessary to reprogram a Vectrix, I just need the new software (and not the whole "plastic box" to be connected to the Vectrix), so if I could contact Dana, maybe she can just email to me the new software, without expensive spedition fees to Europe.
Also, and now I am talking to AndY1, having the software we can meet in Croatia (where I go every now and then), if you can get near to me, and I can then also update your Vectrix. (I think you live near Croatia, in Slovenja, right?)
So please, Rewski, can you please PM me Dana's email?
Thank you very much!

PM sent! Good luck!

Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint

neopav
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Hello again,

Dana is a very helpful person!
Upon request, he sent to me immediately via email the latest firmware for the Vectrix (which consist of two firmwares, one for the Motor Controller and one for the Charger).
Special care must be taken when updating the Charger firmware: there are two types of charger installed on the Vectrixes, and you must identify the correct one before installing its firmware.

Well, I immediately updated my Vectrix (previosuly with the 2008-10 firmware). And wow... it is really a rocket at 110 kmph!
How incredible it is, that just a software can make an electric vehicle improve so much... :-)

Another important thing is that Dana told me that this software is not just giving the scooter this extra 10 kmph, but he also told me that "The latest battery charger software will make sure that your battery is best protected", so I think that there is also a better battery management.

But there is also a drawback: now, you can no more press the red kill switch with the brake to give a look at the battery's temperature and voltage: these datas are no more accessible!
Also when charging the bike, you no more see the current temperature of the battery and voltage.

I think that this was done just to "simplify" the use of the bike: now that the software is mature and it can, hopefully, properly protect the battery and show the really remaining charge, it is no more necessary to stress people with all that functions.

But I really miss them... Fortunately, I also have the 2008-10 firmware files, so I can get back should I want to!

I already asked Dana about this issue, but he has still to respond to me. I really hope that there is a secret trick to see that datas again...

Anyhow, I have CRCed the two files of this update.
The charger firmware is EXACTLY the same as the 2008-10 firmware, so these differences are not coming from this one.
The Motor Controller is the file that changed but, strangely enough, it is 20 % smaller than the 2008-10 one. (41 kb versus the 48 kb of the 2008-10)
But sure it is the new one... The bike really reaches 110 kmph, and more!

Anyone here knows something more about these changes?
I am really thinking about reinstalling to the old good 2008-10 firmware, but the 110 kmph + better battery management is stopping me from doing that...

Any suggestions???

HarryS
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

I don't know what happened with your install. I had Matt install the new software. I still have battery temperature and voltage displays. That has not changed at all. It also displays the battery temperature during charging.

rewski
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

I don't know what happened with your install. I had Matt install the new software. I still have battery temperature and voltage displays. That has not changed at all. It also displays the battery temperature during charging.

Ditto here. Newest software and still have the temp display.

Adam

Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint

neopav
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Really? You have the newest software and also all the old informations displayed?

Well, I have to exclude a bad software installation: in fact, the scooter is really working perfectly, and I think that a corrupted installation would have immediately stopped it!
Also, the software told me that the installation went fine...

But anyway, I will try to flash the Vectrix again with the same software: who knows, maybe some collected data of the old software has remained in memory, preventing the new software to show these informations.

Also, I will immediately try to contact Dana again.

But maybe, this could be a newer software version (still not available with the auto-installer plastic box you used), only files, that was sent to me.

Mmmmhhh... I will keep you informed as soon as I have new informations.

Thank you!

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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Is there any way I can find out, without opening the bike, whether I have a 200A or 125A fuse installed? Does Vectrix have an information system, where they could look this info up?

I had my battery replaced and software updated in summer 2009 in Verona and I don't know if they also replaced the fuse. Note, my original fuse wasn't damaged, so the question is, did/do they replace the fuse only when it's damaged?

I asked this here because if I still have the 125A, I'm afraid that the 110km/h software might damage my fuse (because of higher current needed for 100km/h) and since the Verona dealer closed his Vectrix offices, I'd really have to go far to replace the fuse.

R
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Neopav, I also have the 110km/h FW, and it is displaying these old informations.
Maybe somebody inside vectrix decided to erase those displaying capabilities from the newer firmware. I guess too many people getting paranoid when the battery temp reaches 50-60 degrees celsius....

R
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Is there any way I can find out, without opening the bike, whether I have a 200A or 125A fuse installed?

To my knowledge, there's no way to know the A of the fuse without opening the vectrix.
AndY1
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

I was hoping that Vectrix (as a company) information system keeps track of services for all their sold bikes.

neopav
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Hi,

to Andy1: R is right, there is no way to know which fuse you have, without opening in half the Vectrix!
But as per the past discussions I had with the technician in Verona (the one that also followed your scooter), no fuse has been substituted if it did not break before... So, probably you still have the 125A.
Anyway you should not be scared by the new 110 kph max speed: sure it draws a little more current than going at 100 kph, but the real problem for the fuse has never been the current at constant (max) speed, but the much more high current requested when accelerating, which can be almost 2x-3x the current needed when the desired speed has been reached.
It is just for this reason that the 2008-10 firmware lowered the acceleration of the Vectrix (with the first 2007 firmware, I clearly remember a faster acceleration, without any doubt!), but not the max speed. And also this new 2010 firmware keep the lowered acceleration... just to protect the fuse (and a little bit the battery).

To R: I am thinking that your thought is right: new version of software, with less control for the user, in order to have less paranoid customers!
By the way, maybe you have a copy of the files that were installed in your scooter???

Anyway, I have written once again to Dana, and I will wait for a reply before coming to a conclusion... I really hope about the possibility to have the newst firmware with the old informations displayed!!!

HarryS
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Vectrix changed to a 200A fuse in October 2008. If your bike was build later you have a 200A, if yours is before it has a 125A.

AndY1
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Nope, my is 2007. I got it at the discounted price of 6400 EUR (without VAT) when they dropped the price from 10.000 EUR.

The Laird
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

O.K. so The Laird is paranoid.

Neopav, I also have the 110km/h FW, and it is displaying these old informations.
Maybe somebody inside vectrix decided to erase those displaying capabilities from the newer firmware. I guess too many people getting paranoid when the battery temp reaches 50-60 degrees celsius....

Come on Folks, Just get real. If the battery on your Vectrix is running at 50 - 60 degrees, charging or riding, then I suggest that you either already have a 'problem' OR you are about to have a 'problem' (unless the ambient temperature where you are is around 45 - 55 degrees).

The simple way to look at this is, IF your battery temperature rises by more than 5-10 degrees (5 is the safer figure) above ambient when riding or charging, then you are overworking it and damage will result sooner or later.

Let's stop fooling ourselves. High battery temperatures are NOT 'normal', NOT 'acceptable' and DO cause damage which will shorten the batteries 'life expectancy'. AND NO, you can't fix the problem by cooling the batteries with air flow, water cooling, refrigeration etc. The 'fix' is NOT GENERATING THE HEAT IN THE FIRST PLACE

If this all means that I am paranoid then I am happy to be paranoid. Just remember, Vectrix have sold the bike to you. What happens next is just not their problem. The customer will pay when a replacement battery is needed. The high top speed, the rapid acceleration and the sleek looks are nothing more than sales benefits, Just don't discuss battery life.

The battery life is determined by the charging and discharging patterns The charging is now under our control. Discharging can be also under our control via the way we ride BUT if we use the power as limited only by the Vectrix software, then we are doing damage.

The Vectrix battery as designed by G.P. is designed for a 3C maximum discharge rate, and this is 90Amperes. The Vectrix motor control software allows a current of over 200 amperes to be drawn from the battery. GET REAL. The Maths doesn't 'add up' and the chemistry can't cope. Physics says that this simply cannot work successfully.

The current Vectrix software engineers are in denial, and thereby pretty stupid, but some of you out there still believe that they know what they are doing. Well, more bloody fool you.

Lets have no more talk of the 'new software' being 'better', because it isn't. With the higher top speed and the same acceleration batteries will fail even faster. Of course, if you want high speed, fast acceleration and a short battery life, then it is all ready to go. If, on the other hand, you want reliable electric transport with a 5 / 10m year life span, then you can either forget the fast acceleration OR try a different battery technology. It really is very simple.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but, when posting on a forum, that opinion should be based on reality and fact and NOT on wishful thinking.

You can still have fun, but please, get real.

The Laird.

R
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

O.K. so The Laird is paranoid.

Really? I was thinking of my third battery, which used to cook itself up to 60 degrees by driving at constant speed of 60 km/h. That made me feel really paranoid. About everything else, the laird, I agree with you. Hiding the numbers will not enlarge the lifespan of a BMSlesss, under-engineered NIMH battery...
turok
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

NEOPAV,

that charger software, you said it didn't change, maybe that's why you can't read temps?

Maybe Dana sent you an older file by accident??

I received:

CHARGER_013108_DEV.hex

(and MC1017-68mph.hex)

Turok

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

neopav
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Hi to all,

and thank you for your suggestions. But now the mistery is SOLVED...

Turok, the charger software is not responsible of the missing informations: it can be combined with different version of MotorController software.
It is the MC software that decide wether these informations are visible or not.
I have just tested this!
You have correctly received the MC firmware version 1017, which is the one that let your scooter drive at 110 kph / 68 mph , but it also displays temp+voltage informations.

The MC firmware that Dana sent to me is version 1021 (please note that these version numbers are not just "guessed" by the name of the file: I have actually installed them in the Vectrix, and then checked their version with the ScooterDiag software).

The version 1021 of the MC firmware is 6-7 kbs SMALLER than the 1017.
Luckily, I was able to also find version 1017 of it on the Net.
Without changing the Charger software (I left the 3001 version installed, the latest that Dana sent to me), but just changing the MC one to v1017, guess what? ALL OF MY INFORMATIONS WERE BACK!!!

Just for the sake of testing, I then re-installed v1021 of the MC, and I can confirm that these informations were not available any more... Back to the v1017, all the informations back!

So, Vectrix Co. is, for some strange reason, not wanting to display these datas any more. It may be just a temporary firmware change, but one thing is really strange: I emailed Dana several times, and he already answered to me almost immediately. When asked about this question, for two times, he did not even reply to me!

And just for information, the newst MC firmware (v1021) also ELIMINATED the pre-charge cooling option: you can NO MORE activate the fixed 30 minutes or programmable pre-cooling phase! When you attach it to the electric outlet, it starts immediately to charge. And also when charging, you no more see temp and voltage...

So to everyone, please be careful next time a MC software will be installed in your Vectrix: if you still want to be able to have these informations displayed and the pre-charge cooling available, don't let it be installed, or keep a copy of the v1017 files in case you want to reinstall them!

P.S. There is also another mistery to be solved... :-)
The Charger firmware that Dana sent to me (together with the MC v1021), is the version 3001, which should be the latest one.
But Turok, Dana sent to you an older version, v0131. I have also found that the MC v1017 was combined with this Charger firmware in another place in Internet, so you was not alone.
The real strange thing is that this newest version, v3001, was available SINCE THE 2008-10 firmware!
In fact, that was the Charger firmware I had installed by Vectrix technicians since then (we no more have Vectrix technicians here in Italy now... :-( ), and I also have CRCed that v3001 file with this newest v3001 one: they are exactly the same!
Please note again that these version numbers are verified not only by the name of the files, but I ACTUALLY installed them in my Scooter and THEN checked their version with ScooterDiag.
Also, both versions are for ESD chargers, so it is not a problem of different (Runkie) charger.

Back to us: knowing all these informations, now, what do you think Vectrix Co. is doing?????

turok
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

fyi

I received those files from Dana in September 2010.

Glad you found this out, I wouldn't want to miss nor voltage/temp reading, nor the pre-cooling-delay. I use them both a lot.

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

X Vectrix
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

V1021 is for the new chargers only (EVPS...formerly Runkie). 1017 was the last MC code that works with the old chargers (ESD).

neopav
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Re: VIP Software update kit in Denver, CO

Hi X Vectrix,

what you are saying is really strange...
Before sending the firmware files Dana directly asked me if I had a, ESD or a Runkie charger.
When I confirmed the ESD charger, he sent to me the v1021 software for the MotorController, together with the v3001 for the Charger.
He confirmed that it was really important to install the correct Charger firmware (ESD or Runkie), because serious problems could happen if not doing so.
So, the problem could be the Charger firmware in that case... NOT the MC firmware!

Just for confirmation, I obviously installed the MC v1021 and the Charger v3001 Dana sent to me, and my Vectrix was working PERFECTLY.
Just I could no more access the Temp/Voltage datas...

So, I think that it is not important the version of the MC firmware, but you only have to pay attention to the Charger firmware based on the type of charger you have.

Or maybe, the MC v1021 has made in two versions, one for the ESD charger, and one for the Runkie.

But I CONFIRM that I installed the v1021 MC firmware on my ESD Vectrix, after Dana checked those files to be made for the ESD chargers.

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