C130 - Freeway Cruising

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jdh2550_1
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C130 - Freeway Cruising

Here's some more manufacturer (biased?) data for you. We've been working on performance and heat management (not efficiency yet). We now have a C130 setup that allows me (5'7"/155lbs) to cruise on the local freeway (the I-94). The following data shows a run I did (my regular commute) - it has a peak (very brief!) at 79mph (I've broken 80mph once). Basically flat terrain.

Peak Speed: 79.31 mph
Avg. Speed: 38.78 mph
Distance: 13.90 miles
Efficiency: 147.70 Wh/mile

The Freeway stretch was about 9 miles. With an efficiency of 165Wh/Mile and an average speed of 70.5mph.

There was a 1.9 mile stretch at high speed with an efficiency of 180 Wh/Mile and an average speed of 76mph.

Unfortunately the image size on this board tops out at 500x500 so this is too small to see that much. The top red trace shows the speed profile of the entire trip. The cursors on this top graph represent the span on the bottom graph. The bottom graph shows speed, power & distance. The two cursors on the bottom graph mark the high speed section referred to above. You can also see that the power draw (battery measurements - not motor measurements) is about 15kW / 20HP.
graph.PNG

Now comes a question: How many of you would likely ride the bike on the freeway like this?

From my perspective (which is different than it used to be) I think it's fair to say that a bike is freeway suitable if it can go as fast as the trucks and have a little in reserve. The majority of trucks on the I-94 seem to travel at 65mph. So, I find it comfortable to ride our bike on the freeway.

What do you think?

We continue to refine and improve our bikes - and we continue to support our early-adopter customers. We remain very grateful to these early adopters! Together we're producing one of the best EVs out there. Yeah, that's just bold rhetoric and it depends on how one defines "best" - but, hey, it's what I believe.

Wishing you all Happy & Safe travels - whatever mode of transport you prefer!
John H.

MikeB
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Re: C130 - Freeway Cruising

Now comes a question: How many of you would likely ride the bike on the freeway like this?

Oooohh, very nice, John.

Here's my take: I'd probably not take my scoot to downtown Atlanta via the freeway, partly because I wouldn't have the range to get there and back. That 165Wh/M just hurts too much, but also the traffic downtown is both fast and aggressive. But there's a number of trips where I'd go a couple miles on the freeway, just a few exits, if I had a little more speed available. This makes short freeway hops much more viable, and that opens up a few options.

However, this also tells me that you're doing much better job dealing with heating, so we might have room to increase the max current (and thus torque) at the other end of the speed range.

Also, this tells me we gotta start working on aerodynamics! I saw that you rode along with Craig Vetter in one of his challenge rides, did you steal a fairing from him while you were there?
(2011 Mid Ohio Vetter Challenge)

My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.

PJD
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Re: C130 - Freeway Cruising

It is nice to offer this performance, but the most common scooter encountered in my area is probably the Honda Metropolitan, or its Chinese knock-offs, or on the high performance (and urban-snob appeal) end, one of the 150cc Vespas. So, you should pay attention to that end of the market too.

Gusset
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Re: C130 - Freeway Cruising

Now comes a question: How many of you would likely ride the bike on the freeway like this?

From my perspective (which is different than it used to be) I think it's fair to say that a bike is freeway suitable if it can go as fast as the trucks and have a little in reserve.

This is similar to my own thinking. Thanks for posting the data!

Answer to the question: I would periodically ride like this, on 60-65mph freeways/highways. I do so pretty comfortably on my 250, and the C130 performance you reference here would provide ~5mph of added margin over what I have now.

Keep up the good work.

LeThala
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Re: C130 - Freeway Cruising

Where I in Northern Virginia there are limited access highways and local roads in every direction. The local roads have lots of traffic lights so it would be convenient to be able to get on the highway for one or two exits. I wouldn't use the bike for extended highway trips.

jdh2550_1
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Re: C130 - Freeway Cruising

Thanks for the responses so far - if there are others out there with whatever bike who want to chime in about the usefulness (or otherwise) of freeway cruising please do!

As far as low-end torque / acceleration / hill-climbing goes:

Yes, this is very important as well and we continue to make improvements in this area. I'll be frank and tell you that I'm more reluctant to post numbers here for two reasons (1) it's a moving target and we've got other improvements still to make & (2) acceleration (and to a lesser extent hill-climbing) is a data point that carries a lot of interest but also suffers from a serious perception vs. reality gap. These two things mean that if I post absolute data I will have to spend more time defending the data than it is worth (well, more time than usual!). Furthermore I have little confidence in the numbers that are published by other manufacturers. My position is jaded by Vectrix - they claim a really fast accel time but one which I've yet to see duplicated independently.

Rest assured we will publish acceleration and hill climbing data - but I won't be giving "early looks" at those numbers.

As far as our progress goes I can tell you two things that might help satisfy your quest for knowledge: (a) we've improved acceleration by 30% or more; (b) a C130 accelerates 0-50mph about 1 to 1.5 seconds slower than a C124 - due to weight differences.

Finally, in response to streamlining: I wasn't able to half-inch a Vetter fairing but I do have one of these: http://www.blueskydsn.com/ body kits in the workshop for "when I have time".

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

MikeB
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Re: C130 - Freeway Cruising

I'll be frank and tell you that I'm more reluctant to post numbers here for two reasons (1) it's a moving target and we've got other improvements still to make & (2) acceleration (and to a lesser extent hill-climbing) is a data point that carries a lot of interest but also suffers from a serious perception vs. reality gap.

It's great to hear that things are improving. And I fully understand your reluctance to publish acceleration times. In fact, here's your third reason to not quote specific acceleration numbers: it's massively dependent on the amount of mass you're trying to accelerate, which means it depends on the size of the individual rider, his riding gear, and how much stuff he's got in the trunk and under the seat. So it'll be different for every rider. But if you've improved it by 30%, that's a solid change that I can relate to and look forward to. I presume that means the controller has been programmed to allow a higher motor current, which is exactly what I was hoping to see. (You could probably quote just an increase in starting kW/HP, and let people estimate performance from that.)

Oh, and since you failed to get a Vetter Fairing, see if you can get one of these instead:
http://www.streamlined-electric-motorcycle.com/

And on yet another related point, Lightning Motorcycles just set a new record at Bonneville salt flats, 215MPH for a 'partially streamlined' electric motorcycle. Not that I expect a C130 to get anywhere near that, but we gotta set some goals here. :)
Lightning sets Record

My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.

jdh2550_1
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Re: C130 - Freeway Cruising

Oh, and since you failed to get a Vetter Fairing, see if you can get one of these instead:
http://www.streamlined-electric-motorcycle.com/

Yeah, I've seen this - it's nice, isn't it? It's sort of a "baby" one of these: http://eco.peraves.ch/ndexe.htm

I wonder how it would handle in crosswinds?

Also, I was kind of hoping to come up with a design that doesn't use outriggers.

So many projects so little time!!

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

jstibal
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Re: C130 - Freeway Cruising

Being able to drive even 1 mile on the highway would be a definite plus for me. I live in rural Southwest Michigan with plenty of rivers, and often the only nearby means of crossing is the highway. My daily commute would be 17.5 miles one-way if I completely avoid the highway, and I would only have one place where I could cross the St. Joseph river to get to and from work. With the ability to travel on the highway (also I-94 in this case) for as little as 1 mile, I have another means to get across the river, and my commute drops to 16.1 miles. If I could handle 2.2 miles on the highway, my commute drops to 15.4 miles and would probably save me 10 minutes.

I had a similar problem on my current scooter (a Z20-a; don't laugh) in 2009. Road construction and a really screwed up detour meant I couldn't use it to for the 14 mile commute to my previous job. It just didn't have the speed to safely commute via anywhere but my carefully laid out route, which M-DOT had decided to have torn up for the whole motorcycle season that year.

So even if I never planned to drive it on the highway, I would certainly appreciate the ability to do so in an emergency.

Jon Stibal
2008 EVT America Z-20A
2011 CMC C130 - my daily driver:

MEroller
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Re: C130 - Freeway Cruising

For me - living, working and commuting in Germany means 100km/h (62mph) is even usual on country roads. And I definitely prefer faster possibilites for Autobahn driving. I have done it with my 80...85km/h ZAP/Erider Thunder 5000, but that was more of a test of courage than anything else... In my region at least 120km/h (75mph) of sustainable highway speed would be necessary in order to flow more fluently with Autobahn traffic. For my daily commute real 65mph (also in winter at -15°C and with some head wind) would suffice :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

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