ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

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MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

This is the "famous" big Puma, with 28 CHL 50Ah LiFePO4 cells, 9kW QS-Motor (probably up to 12kW peak) and probably the big Sevcon Gen4 controller. If Eric ordered his Puma right it should have a 1.5kW TS charger on board. But for the 28 cell version there is no full BMS as in "Battery Management System", but more of a "Battery Monitoring System". It will require some manual balancing from time to time. Another option may be a proper bottom balancing operation up front to ensure all 28 cells reach the minmal 2.5V threshold at the same time.

Phil, how did you feel about the suspension? Reports from my quarters here sound like Puma would be more suited to excellent road surfaces, not so much for rough ones?
I would think the springs and dampers could be a little undersized for the bulk of this powerful bike?

Oh, and Phil, PLEASE start a NEW thread once you get your "Zeus" - this one is probably one of the longest threads in the history of VisforVoltage :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Oh, and Phil, PLEASE start a NEW thread once you get your "Zeus"

When it has passed all the requirements I too will have to save some pennies too. I don't know what it sells for yet but I found the suspension to be nice. But I was only able to test it on a closed road which was smooth and flat apart from 1 speed bump. The handle bars seem to be similar to my erider 8000w but it felt comfortable. The rear view mirrors seem to be a lot further away though. Still very nice to ride, gave me the EV grin :)

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

jonnyfive
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Not a happy camper, the scooter sails through its vehicle inspection until it gets to the 'check the VIN numbers' and we find the compliance plate, invoice and delivery tag all have two numbers transposed from the actual chassis VIN number, so FAIL!

Bloody frustrating after a month to get to this point and now have to ask Eric to apply for a re-issue of the correct compliance plate, not a quick job I bet!

Grrrrr!

Having said that, the 28km round trip to the testing station was a breeze and the scooter went great

Cheers

John

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Been a while since I last posted as I've been busy trying to get some teething issues resolved with Mountain Chen. We're getting there.

Quick rundown of the specs:
eRider High Efficiency 'Single-Wire' Motor (that'll be a direct translation from Mandarin into English)
Sabvoton 72V 150A controller
24x CHL 50Ah LiFePO4 cells
20A charger
HID headlights

And here are the first batch of pics which I took earlier today. Sorry, I artsied them up... couldn't help myself!


pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Not a happy camper, the scooter sails through its vehicle inspection until it gets to the 'check the VIN numbers' and we find the compliance plate, invoice and delivery tag all have two numbers transposed from the actual chassis VIN number, so FAIL!

Bloody frustrating after a month to get to this point and now have to ask Eric to apply for a re-issue of the correct compliance plate, not a quick job I bet!

Grrrrr!

Having said that, the 28km round trip to the testing station was a breeze and the scooter went great

Cheers

John

That's unfortunate Johhny but Eric will sort everything out. He has bent over backwards to help me out in the past. I managed to see a scooter like yours new dashboard! I even got to have a little ride, but once again only on a short closed road so couldn't get up over 40km/h but over 20km/h it really started to pick up more than mine! Somehow that new motor has more oomph and it's thinner!?

My scooter looks old and dirty now compared to those pics above. I'm now up to 12,485km!

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

jonnyfive
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Eric was great, got straight onto it and the replacement plate is already on its way, so should have the bike inspected and licensed next Wednesday. As you say great customer service. Now, when's that maxi scooter going to be ready :-)

My Cycle Analyst should arrive next week as well, so I have a little shed time coming up

You've got a fair few KM's under your belt now, how's all the normal scooter bits holding up, like brakes, bearings etc?

Cheers

John

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

My similar Thunder has 11500 km under it's belly, and I must say the normal scooter bits have held up rather well. But then again my dealer went to great lengths to ensure that everythng that moves (apart from the brakes of course :-) has grease on or in it, and also changed the distance bushing between the front bearings to one with the correct length. My only hardware failure (just over these last three weeks) was the arm of the main stand that I had scraped so badly during sporty cornering that it all but broke off. A friend of mine welded it back together, so it should be good for another 10 to 15000 km, which is when I will probably send my Thunder into retirement anyway...

The brakepads and disks are almost like new, thanks to regenerative braking. I just had the brake fluids replaced at 10000 km. And a well-oiled frame also helps to keep rust at bay somewhat, though I ride my Thunder all year round in whatever weather, and that does show. One casualty of salt on winter roads was the lid on my motor, which completly shed it's protective laquer and laid bare the alumin(i)um to be very badly corroded during the last VERY long winter. I let my son work the "throttle" so I could brush away the corrosion with a stainless steel drill brush. Then I completely cleaned it with cleaning gasoline and spray-painted it with a heat resistant varnish, 7 or 8 layers on the rotating motor lid. So far it has held up very well, but the next winter already lurks...

The head bearings need special attention every few thousand km, to ensure it is always just tight enough in there for no appreciable play, but loose enough for not squashing the balls to death prematurely.

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

jonnyfive
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

That's good news MEroller, my scooter will be a commuting vehicle, so will be worked hard.

GOOD NEWS, scooter was inspected and licensed today, so I'm finally on the road, yay!

My daily round trip to work is 50kms, so I'm hoping I will be able to manage that ok. On the round trip to the inspection station today, I did 25kms of mixed riding and I used a home power meter (reasonably accurate one) to measure what went back in and its registered 1.7 kwH to top up.

My Cycle Analyst arrived today, so I'll fit that at the weekend so I have an accurate view of whats going on

Anyway, I'll report how it goes after my inaugural trip :-)

Cheers

John

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I would have to agree that the other scooter bits are lasting quite well. Here are the photo's of my brake pads at 12,319km. But I have noticed that one side of the brakes appears to be wearing faster than the other. But apart from that, I still have very good braking ability.

Front:
brakes at 12319km - front.jpg

Rear:
brakes at 12319km - rear.jpg

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

jonnyfive
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Looks hardly worn at all Phil.

Well, made my first trip to work yesterday. Round trip of 50kms, ranging between 70 and 80kph, metro and country plus hills. No problems whatsoever. Arrived home and pack voltage (on the built in gauge)was 77.7v before resting. The lowest the pack went on the last hill before home was 74.3 for a moment, then reverted to 76v when I reached the top.

When I got home, I recharged overnight with one of those power meters attached and I put back in 2.6kwh. Not sure what that translates into as Amp Hours?

I'll be happier when I get the Cycle Analyst hooked up.

On that, Phil I think you said you connected the speed sensor to the Green Phase?
How did you actually do that?

Thanks for your help guys, I'm very happy with things so far and looking forward to some extended testing

Cheers

John

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Well you have 3,84kWh in the battery, but the charging system steals some power so you have propably used up around 60-65% of the available battery energy on this ride, if the meter is accurate.

jonnyfive
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Thanks Jonny J, it actually sounds about right, given the mileage Phil gets out of his batteries, very pleasing anyway as it gives me plenty of margin for my normal daily use. As you say, the meter may or may not be very accurate, the Cycle Analyst will give an accurate picture.

Thanks again

Cheers

John

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

...and I put back in 2.6kwh. Not sure what that translates into as Amp Hours?

Per chance my Thunder requires approximately my used Ah / 10 in kWh charging energy from the grid :-) As you probably have the same type of charger as I your 2.6kWh charging energy was probably worth between 24 and 26Ah, which would be approximately half discharged for the 50Ah CHL. Yes, the CA will give you a better idea, but you must ensure that you connect the measuring shunt directly to the minus battery terminal and ALL cablework formerly connected to that minus battery terminal to the other end of the shunt. Else you might loose out on seeing the charging current, the DC-DC-converter current or even the driving current. But you should be aware of the fact that with the charger and DC-DC-converter also connected to the shunt the CA gets more prone to zero point drift of the Amp-display. With just the controller connected I had practically no zero point drift at all. There are tradeoffs for almost anything in this world...

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

jonnyfive
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I,ve completed 3 days of riding to work, with no problems at all. The battery capacity seems to be improving with every cycle as i‘m riding faster ( around 80kph all the way for 50 kms) and i'm now putting back in around 2.1kwh, brilliant.

Couple of questions, my front wheel shakes and judders around 60kph. I think it might just be balance, but want to eliminate tyre pressure. What pressure do you guys run? Mine came at 35psi

Other question, im connecting the CA this weekend, do you connect the speed sensor to the green phase? If so, do you cut the sensor off and connect the wire?

Appreciate any help you can give

Thanks

John

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Couple of questions, my front wheel shakes and judders around 60kph. I think it might just be balance, but want to eliminate tyre pressure. What pressure do you guys run? Mine came at 35psi

I ride with 3 bar / 43.5psi in both tires, though that will not cause your judder. But the shake could be a number of things. Highest on my priority list would also be balance, then head bearing play, and last (and most unlikely, given the relatively new build date of your bike) still a pair of lower quality mainland Chinese front shocks, instead of better Taiwanese ones, and maybe too little oil in them.

As for CA sensor connection to a motor hall switch lead, that is Phil's Terrain :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

nemo
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hello,

I am Sergio, from Spain, and I am interested in acquiring the new Puma 9kw.

I have read a lot about it and I am impressed by the Route to Tibet, its autonomy and the driving experiences of all of you.

Electric scooters are not still very popular in Spain, and only "Lemev" has created an electric scooter 100% made in Spain. The fact is that I prefer the Puma model because of its high-power motor, and currently I wait instructions from Customs Agents in my city to import the vehicle, since the guys from CHL sent me the proforma invoice to pay the EV.

And now some questions to the members of this forum:
-Do you think I may have any problem with the homologation in Europe?
-When you receive the motorcycle, did you have to adjust anything or it is "ready to ride"?
Thank you!!!

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Yes,CHL battery is our investor who post my scooters on alibaba.com,see http://chl-battery.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-219193417/High_speed_electric_scooter.html

PUMA have EEC type approval and street legal in all EU countries.

This EEC also the basis of ADR for Australia road rule.

Just install mirror and rear sewing arm fender,you can drive PUMA as soon as unpacked !

EEC 2.jpg
Body size.jpg
EEC 5.jpg
PUMA 01.JPG
PUMA 02.JPG

jonnyfive
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi everyone

Well, I've completed two weeks of commuting, covered 623kms with no real issues and the bike performs fantastic.

I fitted the CA last weekend and that really helps with the battery management. The good news is my consumption at 70-80kph is almost dead on .5 AH per km, so my round trip to work of 50km only uses half my capacity.

I haven't connected the speed sensor as yet as I'm waiting on Phil to come back to the Forum and give me the heads up on how to connect to the Hall sensor.

My one and only remaining problem is the shake and shudder from the front end. I've had the wheel carefully balanced and I've checked there is NO play in the head bearings. I can only think that the tyre is out of round and/or the fork damping is not sufficient. When manually pumping the front fork, it doesnt feel like there is much, if any damping. The strange thing is it is very pronounced between 55kph and 65 kph.

Bit weird

I might start with the forks and make sure they are ok, then look at a new tyre if that doesn't cure the problem.

Other than that, its a great little machine

Makes me very interested in the Maxi scooter

Cheers

John

jonnyfive
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi everyone

Well, I've completed two weeks of commuting, covered 623kms with no real issues and the bike performs fantastic.

I fitted the CA last weekend and that really helps with the battery management. The good news is my consumption at 70-80kph is almost dead on .5 AH per km, so my round trip to work of 50km only uses half my capacity.

I haven't connected the speed sensor as yet as I'm waiting on Phil to come back to the Forum and give me the heads up on how to connect to the Hall sensor.

My one and only remaining problem is the shake and shudder from the front end. I've had the wheel carefully balanced and I've checked there is NO play in the head bearings. I can only think that the tyre is out of round and/or the fork damping is not sufficient. When manually pumping the front fork, it doesnt feel like there is much, if any damping. The strange thing is it is very pronounced between 55kph and 65 kph.

Bit weird

I might start with the forks and make sure they are ok, then look at a new tyre if that doesn't cure the problem.

Other than that, its a great little machine

Makes me very interested in the Maxi scooter

Cheers

John

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I have the front fork problem on my Thunder aswell, I think the reason is that at certain speeds the suspension and tire starts to "oscillate". You can try with different tyre pressures and see if it changes in severity or speed range. A better front fork is needed.

jonnyfive
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Johnny J, I think you are absolutely correct, it is an oscillation up and down rather than a wobble side to side. I spoke to Eric at ERider today and he agrees that there should be resistance in the fork travel, especially in the rebound cycle. A lack of damping would support the theory that the wheel gets into an up and down 'cycle' with the spring just perpetuating the cycle. When I manually cycle the front suspension by holding the brake and pumping the forks up and down, there is little resistance other than the spring and no difference between the up and down cycle.
I'm going to get stuck into this and see how much oil, if any, is in the forks and try a couple of hundred ml in each and add until it 'feels' right.

After that, maybe a tire change and then not much left but look for better forks.

As some other Lightning Bolt owners have no problems, I tend to think it must be something with my/our setup.

Worth a bit of time investigating anyway

Where is Phil by the way, haven't heard from him for weeks!!

Cheers

John

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

My one and only remaining problem is the shake and shudder from the front end. I've had the wheel carefully balanced and I've checked there is NO play in the head bearings. I can only think that the tyre is out of round and/or the fork damping is not sufficient. When manually pumping the front fork, it doesnt feel like there is much, if any damping. The strange thing is it is very pronounced between 55kph and 65 kph.

Bit weird
...
Makes me very interested in the Maxi scooter

Beware, the big one has EXACTYLY the same problems with the front fork as your Lightning Bolt/VK2008, in the same speed range. And the spacer tube through the front wheel is also too long on that one, thus pressing the fork apart.

Mountain desparately finally NEEDS to get the basic motorcycle stuff right on his bikes!!!

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

CHL lithium battery
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Ok,we will remind Mountain Chen to take care of SMALL detail on such big scooter !

We are share holder of his company http://chl-battery.en.alibaba.com ,they should listen to our advise........

Pls keep support both of us.

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Been a while since I last posted, so thought I'd write up a quick 2,000km update.

The torque on the bike, at pretty much any speed, is AWESOME. I've raced a 150cc (of course, on a closed, private course, ahem ;)) and from a standing start, the eRider just blasts off! Things are slightly different with a rolling start: at 70km/h, the back EMF really starts to kick in an acceleration tails off quite a bit, but up till around 70km/h, I'd say the eRider accelerates as hard as a strong 200cc.

Have noticed a rear wheel/hub motor wobble issue at around 40-45km/h and again around 80-90km/h (and when the rear wheel's spinning while the bike's on the centre stand, presumably at the same speeds). I thought this was a wheel or tyre trueness/roundness issue, which is very visible when spinning the rear wheel on the centre stand. Mountain sent me some magnets/weights to stick to the wheel which is very placed on the wheel very approximately - I simply haven't had any time to properly balance the wheel - and this seems to have cured 80% of the problem. Hopefully when I get the time to do a proper job balancing the wheel, this'll resolve the issue completely.

eRider now do an HID option and for the most part, it works AWESOME. I've bemoaned light output of 'standard' motorcycle 35W halogens and the HID's eRider are fab. However, every time I hit or touch the brakes - thereby activating the rear brake lights - one or both of the HIDs will flicker for a split second. On occasions, the left HID won't come back on; I'd have to turn off the front lights then turn them back on again to get the left light going again. I've done a bit of Googling on this and apparently it's an issue which is not uncommon on aftermarket HID conversions on cars. Weirdly, from all I've found on online discussions, no one has seemed to been able to resolve the issue. I'm guessing the DC-DC converter may have something to do with it, but that's a guess.

Measured up each of the cells today, and after riding 40km in 5 deg C weather, here are the individual cell voltages:
Cell 1: 3.276V
Cell 2: 3.276V
Cell 3: 3.276V
Cell 4: 3.276V
Cell 5: 3.276V
Cell 6: 3.276V
Cell 7: 3.276V
Cell 8: 3.276V
Cell 9: 3.276V
Cell 10: 3.276V
Cell 11: 3.277V
Cell 12: 3.277V
Cell 13: 3.277V
Cell 14: 3.277V
Cell 15: 3.277V
Cell 16: 3.276V
Cell 17: 3.276V
Cell 18: 3.276V
Cell 19: 3.277V
Cell 20: 3.276V
Cell 21: 3.277V
Cell 22: 3.277V
Cell 23: 3.276V
Cell 24: 3.276V

Yes, I kid you not, at rest a maximum delta of 0.001V! Sure, maybe voltage differences between the cells may start to go up if I drain the battery pack further (or if measuring with a load, which I don't have the equipment for), but still! Not a single weak cell, or even a cell which is marginally weaker than any other!

For the most part, I'm a pretty happy camper.

branng
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Oh and I forgot to add. My second favourite part of the eRider bikes... the 1650W charger! I've never rode the batteries down to zilch, but even then, I have gone on some longer rides (70km on a charge) and have never had the bike charge for more than 2 hours.

The 20A on board charger is an absolute BEAST, physically and electronically. Will take a snap of the size of the thing (and the charger heatsink) one of these days, but it's B-I-G!

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Well, I've completed two weeks of commuting, covered 623kms with no real issues and the bike performs fantastic.

That's AMAZING!!! You'll catch up to my 12,800km real soon!!

I fitted the CA last weekend and that really helps with the battery management.

Excellent!!

I haven't connected the speed sensor as yet as I'm waiting on Phil to come back to the Forum and give me the heads up on how to connect to the Hall sensor.

Sorry, been busy at work an home. I will get some detailed info on this tonight. But basically you cut off the magnent sensor off you CA (mine had a magnet sensor). You will have to guess which one is active and which one is ground. Simply connect this wire to any of the 3 hall sensor wires (thin green, yellow or blue). NOT the RED or BLACK as these carry 5v. I connected mine to the green one as it was the easiest and closest. Then in the CA you have to put in the wheel circumference and the number of motor poles. I MANUALLY counted 28 poles and took me about 30 minutes to count. Then read it on a forum somewhere......oh well. Now I have done this mod on 3 scooters and even though I used the SAME CA on all the scooters, the speed only worked on 2 of them. On my scooter my speed sensor would work up to around 60km/h then it would go crazy and report speeds like 700km/h. I found out that's because the internal clock was changed in some Cycle Analysts and I had to change a capacitor to increase it 10x. I will get more info for you

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi Johnnyfive

I hooked up my cycle analyst to a hall sensor wire and it works perfect up until about 63km/h and then reads 0km/h.

I measured the diameter of the wheel to be 1500mm and I set the cycle analyst to 28 poles.

Before I modified my cycle analyst it would max out around 65-70km/h because with 28 poles there was more than 600 pulses a second so I needed to replace Capacitor C6 from a 33nF to a 10nF. I firstly removed C6 but the speedo was useless saying I was going 800km/h in my driveway, so removing C6 was NOT going to work for me. So I installed my new 10nF capacitor and it now works perfect!

Here is the cycle analyst board and C6 is near the top left. It is a surface mount cap which is annoying.
CA board.png

Here's the replacement 10nF cap which increases the Cycle analysts top speed from 70km/h to around 280km/h
IMG_4647.jpg

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

jonnyfive
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi Branng

yes, these batteries are brilliant. I get the same performance as you and under spirited riding at 80kph I'm still only using .5ah per Km

I thought I was going mad as on the CA I register charging at 18.6 amps! and I also have a monster of a charger, with a small controller on top (not a Sevcon, but something like Sevicam or similiar. whatever it is, it work very well

I'd be interested in your solution for the shake, as my front end has gotten worse with severe judder under hard braking, grabbing and the existing shake between 50kph and 60kph. I'm about to remove the front end and check through everything. I do suspect that I'm getting some shake from the back end as well as it feels to be under the seat. hard to tell exactly

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

The 20A on board charger is an absolute BEAST, physically and electronically.

I know!! I had a chance to upgrade to this monster but because of my DC-DC converter for my HID's I just couldn't squeeze it in ANYWHERE! :(

However, every time I hit or touch the brakes - thereby activating the rear brake lights - one or both of the HIDs will flicker for a split second.

This is because quite simply the little 120W DC-DC converter is not powerful enough to supply the large startup transient current required to "ignite" the HID's. This is why I had to install a seperate DC-DC converter in my scooter. In my wife's scooter I just used a 2nd DC-DC converter of the same model and it works fine.

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eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

jonnyfive
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Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: Thursday, September 5, 2013 - 17:21
Points: 43
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hey, welcome back Phil!!

Thanks for that, I'll give it a go soon. As you may have read, I'm having some troubles with the front end. Eric has given his blessing for me to do an in depth investigation into it. So a big strip down and check everything will be underway soon.

But I am still very impressed with the bike. BTW, the new speedo (mine at least) is dead accurate against a GPS, so at least I don't have to guess my speed, although the CA will confirm that shortly

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