Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

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martinwinlow
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

(I thought I had replied to this already but it appears to have gone adrift...)

As mine is already in the post (to the UK), is there going to be a way of upgrading the firmware as improved versions come out? I have a PIC programmer if that makes any difference... MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

Galago
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

... is there going to be a way of upgrading the firmware as improved versions come out?

No new versions have been released and nothing is expected anytime soon, so you are good.
What you see in the previous post is just preliminary to various interface methods and
types of data available from the bike.

I have a PIC programmer if that makes any difference... MW

The CanMon has an In Circuit Serial Programming port (ICSP for short) and is capable to
receive new hex files. As long as your programmer has an ICSP port, or if you can wire one
up, AND is compatible with Microchip MCU's (PIC18F2580 in this case) then
there should be no problem with upgrades. The circuit board in the area of the ICSP port
does have a layer of conformal coating; so, if it ever does come to pass to upgrade then
ensure the pads are clear of the coating for proper connection between programmer and
target...spring pins are preferred over soldering.

The Laird
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Hi Aircon (and everyone else too).

A Happy New year to you all ( just in case I forget later).

The answer to your question is No, I haven't retired from the Vectrix community, but at age 68 this year, I am entitled to retire, so there. :-) :-)

Now, That message which you sent. It didn't arrive this end. Send it again preferably as an e-mail and I shall try to sort out whatever is bothering you :-)

One of the reasons why I am a bit in-active on the Forum is that essentially the ESD charger programme is perfected. The Runke charger programming is proving tedious and my computer is playing up, so that is holding things back. What I could use is some programming / reverse engineering help. X-Vecrtix, of course, could help immensely here, after all he is still the current Vectrix programming/software engineer. Rather makes you wonder exactly what his game is? :-) Certainly has me puzzled.

Oh, For those of you who are fooled by the title XVectrix.
XVectrix is Not EX-Vectrix at all, he is in fact Mr X at Vectrix. Just to clear up any mis-understandings that you may have.

Anyway, must go, lots of things to be at and time is getting shorter. Big Honda Shadow to ride, two boats to sail and a Runke charger to sort out as well as all of the other interesting things a chap gets to do once he retires.

Best wishes to you all from here in the Isle of Man,

The Laird (Telling it like it is as always)

Aircon
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Hi Aircon (and everyone else too).

A Happy New year to you all ( just in case I forget later).

The answer to your question is No, I haven't retired from the Vectrix community, but at age 68 this year, I am entitled to retire, so there. :-) :-)

Now, That message which you sent. It didn't arrive this end. Send it again preferably as an e-mail and I shall try to sort out whatever is bothering you :-)

I sent you a message. I have no idea how to send an email from here. Let me know if you don't receive it please.

X Vectrix
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

XX Vectrix? I hope Vectrix makes it this time...lol

The Laird
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Hi XVectrix,

Really good to hear from you, I wish you a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.

I too hope that the New Vectrix Organisation is more successful this time and a little more forthcoming/co-operative with it's customers.

On a more ambitious note, I would also be delighted to receive a personal message from you or an e-mail or even a reply on this forum. I would like to discuss a few things with you that may well be to our mutual benefit.

Best wishes to you,

The Laird

martinwinlow
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

I have an AXE027 cable and a PicKit2 programer which requires the PIC MCU to removed from the PCB - I see the last vid shows what I expect is the 18F2580 in a socket - is it in one on the production CanBusMon or soldered to the PCB? Will either of those do? MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

ofx210p
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Just received the canbus monitor here in New Zealand.

It was brilliantly and professionally packaged and looks absolutely professionally built.

I plugged it in straight away and its quite informative. Certainly plug and play.

I've raised a couple of issues with Galago with the metric version and i will not comment on those just yet.
However other than my own questions, it works well and works fine with the lairds code.

Charging is informative as is riding when its fascinating to watch the amperages rise and drop depending on terrain / wind / acceleration and speed. Keeping the amperage low is going to be a sport for me now, like riding with the old "econ-o-meters" on the vacuum of old petrol cars (that dates me)

As a diagnostic - great ! Information is everything and you can ride accordingly.

Cheers Galago !

ofx210p
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Hmm first gentle ride home - 15km (bear in mind auckland is a city on 50 volcanoes so flat land is nearly impossible) 15km in 6Ah (2.2km per Ah)
Starting voltage 145v - resting voltage after 15km 133v
Nimh pack with 29000 ish kms.

Galago
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

I have an AXE027 cable and a PicKit2 programer which requires the PIC MCU to removed from the PCB - I see the last vid shows what I expect is the 18F2580 in a socket - is it in one on the production CanBusMon or soldered to the PCB? Will either of those do? MW

Microchip suggests upgrading to a PicKit3 (a PicKit2 will work though).
The socket chip you see is my prototype development unit - the one with all the
electrical tape, zip ties and small spring clamps in the videos.... sorry but it
is NOT FOR SALE. The production units have SOIC chips (not removable) and
an ICSP connector....to allow easy upgrade.

Galago
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

It seems there may be some concern about the ability of the CanMon
to operate at low temperatures. I placed a production unit into the
freezer for a little more than an hour and then hooked up 5 volts.
The results are here --> http://youtu.be/qicSKZROxPc
Granted it is not pretty and the update rate does slow
considerably; however, this does show the CanMon
will operate down to MINUS EIGHT degrees C... although I cannot
imagine anyone operating their bike during this type of weather...

MEroller
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

this does show the CanMon will operate down to MINUS EIGHT degrees C... although I cannot imagine anyone operating their bike during this type of weather...

Well, you can quit immagining, last winter I had to ride my bike at -19°C :-) Then again, it is no Vectrix. But the Cycle Analyst display on my bike also slows down considerably when it gets as cold as that. No big deal really. For your display the main two things are:
1. display screen changes need to be displayed long enough so they are legible at these low temps and slow screen updates.
2. the elctronics inside should keep working at those temps too, which apparently they do :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

martinwinlow
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Galago,

If my problem with losing the display below 4 deg C is due to the minimum operating temperature of the Vectrix's canbus 5V supply, would a possible fix be to supply 5V via a small 12V to 5V DC/DC converter powered from the accessory socket in the glove box?

One other point, cutting a notch in the top of the glove box to accommodate the CanMon cable is asking for a glove box full of water in very wet conditions - it hasn't happened yet but I would think a better system would be to have the notch on a side at least if not at the bottom of the glove box door. Either way the cable could do with being about a foot longer.

MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

Galago
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Well, you can quit immagining, last winter I had to ride my bike at -19°C

Holy chattering teeth!!!.... I do not think I can duplicate those conditions; not sure I would want to
either. Thank You MeRoller for you braving the cold, but I have to say : better you than me. :-))

For your display the main two things are:
1. display screen changes need to be displayed long enough so they are legible at these low temps and slow screen updates.

Version 1.1 (in development) uses the high beam indicator to allow the rider to change screens as desired. I am
hoping this is well received as it removes the "distraction factor" also.

2. the elctronics inside should keep working at those temps too...

Unfortunately I have no method to simulate the vibration which would also be encountered
at these temperature extremes. I never considered potting, of course, this would open up
all kinds of other avenues for failure at temperature extremes....

Galago
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

If my problem with losing the display below 4 deg C is due to the minimum operating temperature of the Vectrix's canbus 5V supply, would a possible fix be to supply 5V via a small 12V to 5V DC/DC converter powered from the accessory socket in the glove box?

Possibly...I have not tried or tested an Auxilary source but the 5 volts from the bike is exactly that, +5.0vdc.
A while back I asked in another thread about the source impedance for the 5vdc in the Can Connector but
did not receive a response, so I just ran with it...

One other point, .... the cable could do with being about a foot longer.
MW

Thank you sir, duly noted.

X Vectrix
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

FYI there is a 250mA resettable fuse inline with the CANbus 5V.

Mik
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Galago sent me a free Canbus monitor - thank you!

I have not had time to test it very thoroughly, but it did what it is supposed to do very reliably for the few rides during which I tried it out.

Unfortunately my Vectrix is just gathering dust at the moment, no time to ride it much.

And that brings me to the point of this post: I thought today (ahem, cough, cough, ...really rather for the last few weeks already) that I should check and recharge the Vectrix before the battery gets too low. When I finally checked, I found that the battery voltage was 6V. I'm not sure how long it has been standing uncharged, might be 2-6 months, but I was surprised how low the voltage had fallen. I have never had this happen before, and now I think it might be due to additional standby current drain introduced by the Canbus monitor.

After I connected Special Freddy to slowly charge the battery with 0.2A, I noticed that the Canbus Monitor back-light started to flicker when the battery voltage had risen to about 45V. I then realised that the Canbus monitor had been connected all the time.

How much (if any) additional standby current drain (in addition to the 7mA from the stock system) does the Canbus Monitor introduce when it is left permanently connected? Should it be standard procedure to disconnect it before storage of a Vectrix?

Mik

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

X Vectrix
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Mik
There shouldnt be any extra current draw from the CAN 5V when the scoot is off. The 5V is derived from the 12V DC/DC converter which is off when the scoot is off. By the way, its the 12V DC DC enable bias circuit in the DC/DC that causes the continuous 7ma draw on the older controllers. I suspect the flicker you see is at the point where the DC/DC and other circuitry is unstable (at the minimum input voltage).

Mik
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Mik
There shouldnt be any extra current draw from the CAN 5V when the scoot is off. The 5V is derived from the 12V DC/DC converter which is off when the scoot is off. By the way, its the 12V DC DC enable bias circuit in the DC/DC that causes the continuous 7ma draw on the older controllers. I suspect the flicker you see is at the point where the DC/DC and other circuitry is unstable (at the minimum input voltage).

Good to know. Thank you!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

Scotter
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Perhaps I missed it in the this thread.... are the monitor available? even if not in plastics. I can always 3D Print a case. ;-)

--Scotter and his scooter
2007 Vectrix VX-1 Maroon
2007 Vectrix VX-1 Silver
2008 Vectrix VX-1 Blue
2008 Vectrix VX-1 Silver
Other EV projects in the works

Galago
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Perhaps I missed it in the this thread.... are the monitor available? even if not in plastics. I can always 3D Print a case. ;-)

No you didn't miss anything...I have been out of commission since May.
It seems some zombie thought it better I take the summer, and most of
fall, off.... almost back to it.
Before things went awry progress with the newest Version 3004 firmware
saw some improvements:
1. a recalibration of the temperature tables with known temperature
indexes (i.e. boiling water, the human body, ice bath). So now the
temperatures ARE accurate +/- a couple of degrees. I think I posted
a video to youtube...
2. There is no longer separate versions of firmware. One version
has both measurement units. The units are selectable via a dash
button... (E/M button if I remember correctly...it's in the video.)
3. Concerns over accuracy and digit display errors all have been
corrected. Some values are now calculated by the CanMon using the
encoder counts (if I remember correctly).

I have been really busy getting my life back in order so this
project continues to be on hold. Not sure when things will
begin progressing again but, rest assured, I will let you know...
Thanks to all for you support.
Galago.

BigTony
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

I hate Zombies, Let me know when you are back on track, I can take another Monitor when you are ready. Let me know the current price etc.... Regards Tony

R
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

I'd love to take a monitor, let me know when things settle down and "production" starts again. Regards..

Galago
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Thank you for your continued interest and support, I do appreciate it.
ok, looks like I am to a point where I can start taking
requests/orders again. Unfortunately, due to uncontrollable cost
increases the price for one unit is now 195USD but this will include
shipping/handling. If you would like to place an order please pm me.
Galago

Galago
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Thank you for your continued interest and support, I do appreciate it.
ok, looks like I am to a point where I can start taking
requests/orders again. Unfortunately, due to uncontrollable cost
increases the price for one unit is now 195USD but this will include
shipping/handling. If you would like to place an order please pm me.
Galago

ProEV
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Galago,

This looks like a great unit. Has anyone tried it with a factory lithium VX? Do you think it would work?

Cliff

www.ProEV.com

Galago
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

This looks like a great unit.

Thanks. I know I have become addicted to it....

Has anyone tried it with a factory lithium VX?

.... I have not heard, nor read anything to that end.

Do you think it would work?

Good question. The CanMon is designed around the original VX-1
firmware and ESD charger. I am not familiar with the
Lithium VX, someone like XVectrix, The Laird, or maybe the new
owners of the software/firmware/IP cache, whom has more knowledge
of the newer bikes CanBus coding (i.e. Canbus address and associated
bytes/bits) might be able to answer. From my perspective: IF
the original legacy CanBus addresses and associated bytes/bits
remained unchanged in functional representation, then I see the
CanMon working with the newer bike's firmware; unfortunately,
that is a mighty big if. I have not tested it and would be
nice to hear from someone knowledgeable of the newer bike's firmware.

israndy
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Has anyone ordered one of these? Are you still using it? I would like to see the status of my battery pack and looking at it live not just in a diagnostic setting would be very informational. Since I have the two bikes I could even share one unit, but the CanMon seems to have fizzled, no posts since 2014.

-Randy

______________________
I also own a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and a 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev

Galago
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Re: Vx-1 CanBus Monitor

Well, as it turns out I am now in a position to answer some of
my own questions/concerns. Recently my Vx1 received a new
pack of LGChem NCM type batteries; and, along with those the
firmware was updated to the latest Dugas Engineering Vx1
configurable firmware. The CanMon (Ver 3004) continues to
have a prominent placement upon my Vx1's Dash. Since the
upgrade I have logged over 500 miles. This is more riding in the
last few weeks than in the last ~~5 years!!

With the upgrade I see one "issue" and one glaring omission.
1. An issue with the battery buss ampere draw measurement/reading during riding.
It seems the value has tendency to "jump" or is erratic in nature.
I have seen it vary as much as 10 amperes when holding the throttle steady
on level terrain.
2. The Miles/Ahr calculation now displays all zeros. This tells me
the Can Buss messaging ID's have changed, and, while this data point
is not really needed it was fun to play I have used this, at times, to compare
the differences in riding techniques between city and highway and the
effects on discharge rate and range.
The remainder of the functionality seems to have remained intact.

@IsRandy: The CanMon is still available; although, I have been up to my earlobes
in other "life events" and projects which remain at the forefront of my attention, I do plan
on another version of CanMon firmware but I just have no idea when.
If interested in version 3004 please PM me for arrangements....tnks!

Regards.

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