My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

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VectrixLeaf
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My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

Again, thanks a lot for new software, it's amazing!!! I like it very much.
With new nimh software is it recommended EQ at 1.6 A? I charge without temperature increase, but with EQ it get 38-39 ºC...
I attached photo.
Thanks again!!

CP.jpg

3 hors of CP until 141 (I don´t know why not until 143)

CC.jpg

CC charge with 32ºC

EC.jpg

1 hour EC charge alway in 143 volts, it increse until 38-39 ºC

VectrixLeaf
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

Notes for NIMH battery chargeing say:

Basic Charger programme with:-

6 amp (C.P.) charge to battery = 143 volts,
2.5 amp (C.C.) charge to Battery = 146 volts

My bike CP charge to 141 and CC to 144. I live in Spain, Now is summer and hot, I don´t know if with hot decrease voltage in charge or maybe battery is fault.

And about last stage "Post charge cooloff used as 1.0 hr cool-off used as an Equalising stage at 1.5 Amps, is a real Equalising or only 1 hour cool-off?

Thanks

VectrixLeaf
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

With my bike, during CC charge temperature incres from 32ºC until 39 ºC and take too long to end CC charge, maybe a bad cell?

IMG_20150807_155303.jpg

141 volt 31ºC

IMG_20150807_164135.jpg

143 34ºC

IMG_20150807_165832.jpg

144 36ºC

IMG_20150807_171228.jpg

144 37ºc 20 minutes after continue 144

IMG_20150807_173730.jpg

45 minutes after down 143 up 144 and 39ºC

hybride
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

There can be a little offset in the voltage shown on the dash and the internal voltage cut-off value. It seems that the batterie voltage is not climbing enough to reach this cut-off moment. It looks not good that the voltage drops. Possibly a cell is low voltage/shorted. Can you drive?

VectrixLeaf
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

Yes, I can drive...Maybe a cell damage, I don´t know :C
Thanks

VectrixLeaf
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

Hi again,

After various tests with the battery software NI3040G2+EQ y NI3030G2+EQ my Vectrix in CP only charge until 141 and 143 CC. During charge is heated to over 40 degrees and not stop charge until after 4 hours. Then in display say the bathot (I stop manually at 44ºC)!!! Riding down to 119-118 volt.

I reinstalled the program gave me Laird NI3025IU and now it charge correctly. CP until 143 and CC until 145 then EC and 10 minutes to cool. Now riding down to 122-121, I think it works for me better so ....: Possible Bug?

There is 3 volt diferent in display with NI3040G3 vs NI3025IU and with first don´t charge correctly.

With diagnostic software and peak can bus, charge bus voltaje must be same that MC bus voltaje? with NI3040G3 is different, with NI3025IU is the same.

Attache photos photos

IMG_20150814_142635.jpg

NI3040G3 battery software, display 130 volt

IMG_20150814_142948.jpg

NI3025IU battery software, display 133 volt

Kocho
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

Charge voltage and MC voltage are close but not the same. Some difference should be expected. You should be seeing the charger voltage on the bike's display during charging. I am not sure if you see the MC or the battery voltage during riding - should be the battery's voltage, I think, but the MC is usually a bit lower, so if you are seeing MC voltage with the 3040 and 3030 versions instead, it could explain the differences in displayed voltage during riding compared to 3025. You can record the MC and battery voltages to file with ScooterDiag during riding and compare later with what you saw on display to see which one gets displayed.

You are showing photos with bike on, not charging, at 130V and 133V - what do they mean? Isn't it charging to 140V+?

Does the "25" in the name of the file that you say charges correctly indicate the target temperature? Are you measuring or calculating the actual volts and amps (I would not trust the bike's voltage display and speedometer to show the accurate values)? Does it use the temp sensors?

It is weird that the 3040 and 3030 would not charge up to target voltages and heat-up, but 3025 would charge higher and not heat-up. Again, is the 25 version using the temp. sensors? Check the temp. via ScooterDoag and CANBus cable to see if the temp. on the bike display is the same as the temp. sown in ScooterDiag. Also, measure the actual voltages and currents if you can, so you will know what these different versions of the software are actually doing.

VectrixLeaf
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

Thanks for reply,

Voltage in bike´s display depend if I have programed 3030 software or 3025 software.

With 3030 or 3040 software bike´s display and charge voltage in diagnostic software is 130 but MC voltage in disgnostic software is 132-133, so charge voltage is smaller. When I charge with this software max voltage during chargin in bike´s display is 143, it can not up more so charge don´t stop and battery increase temperature.

With 3025 software bike´s dispplay and charfe voltage in diagnostic software is 133 and MC voltage in diagnostic software is 132-133 too, like same. When I charge with this software max bike´s display is 145 and battery stop when arrives to 145, temperature do not increase or increase a little only. Yes it use temp sensor and I don´t know what´s mean 25 in 3025.

About photos, yes, is bike on. First with 3040 software show 130v and then I programmed 3025 software and bike´s display change to 133. Are same photo with bike on in the same moment but wiht different charge software.

Thanks

Kocho
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

That makes sense to me.

First option. Good 3030 and 3040 software - bad battery and bad 3025 software. If the 3030 and 3040 software is using the correct battery pack voltage, matching the actual battery voltage, but your battery has one or tow bad cells that can't charge fully, the battery pack voltage will be what is displayed and it will be higher than the maximum voltage that your "bad" pack can take without overheating. So it overheats at less than 144-146V. The 3025 software is wrong and would undercharge a good battery but by mistake works fine with your bad battery.

The second option. Bad 3030 and 3040, good battery, good 3025. If 3030 and 3040 are reporting lower than actual voltage on the battery and your battery is good, then when the battery has reached max voltage but the charger thinks it is still lower, so it keeps charging. That will make the battery heat-up. If the 3025 version is measuring the correct voltage and the battery is good, then it will charge without overheating.

3rd option: all software is good, but your battery is bad. Did you ask for the 3025 softer after you found out the 30xx overheats your battery? If so, perhaps they wrote you a software that takes into account the lower actual max voltage that your battery pack can take.

So we don't really know which software is wrong and if your pack is good or not

To be sure, the only way is to measure the actual battery voltage and compare to what is displayed. Did you see this thread: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/14078-dead-vectrix-what-first-steps ? In there is information on how to easily measure the actual battery voltage so you can compare to what is reported in ScooterDiag and on the bike display. If you can do that and let us know what it is, then we can conclude whether the software is reporting and using the right values.

VectrixLeaf
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

I have compared oem BC3001, NI3025IU and NI3040G2

With NI3025IU and OEM vectrix charge fine without or only 4-5 degree increase (until 146-147 volt, with oem I stop charge), but with NI3040G2 batteries increase temperature (with NI3040G2 until 40ºC and with NI3050G2 I stopped it at 45ºC). I thought my pack was bad, but I have installed NI3025IU and it charge ok again.

Ridding, with NI3040G2 low battery protection on dash is 118 and with NI3025IU low battery protection on dash is 121 (3 volt difference).

I have compared oem BC3001, NI3025IU and NI3040G2 in diagnostic software and I have seen differences in battery bus voltaje and mc bus voltaje when bike is stop:

BC3001:
CHARGE VOLTAGE : 136
MC BUS VOLTAJE: 135-137

NI3025IU
CHARGE VOLTAGE : 136
MC BUS VOLTAJE: 135-136

NI3040G2
CHARGE VOLTAGE : 133
MC BUS VOLTAJE: 136

With NI3040G2 software bus voltaje is 3 volt less than oem and NI3025IU software, so when I charge with NI3040G2 and arrive to 143 is like 146 with NI3025IU or OEM software and star to warm up and when is in 146 is like 149 so when arrive to 40ºC it stop charge (I know is a protection with NI3040G2 when arrive to 40ºC)….

Could it be a bug? Should be bus boltaje 3 volt more like other software? (I don´t kwnok, I have writte it to Laird)

Somebody could confirm that with NI3040G2 charge fine without warm up?

Thanks!!!

Jim Lowder
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

Would anyone have access to the version 2.48 software wa to hook up Lairds software.

Kocho
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

Would anyone have access to the version 2.48 software wa to hook up Lairds software.

Why not use the software Team Laird provided, and follow the instructions in the "instructions" document?

https://app.box.com/s/8z1c1b9009abwyv5r2sl044uvjw1kwev

I just read that latest instructions doc, and I'm glad to see that at least a portion of my feedback to the Laird from over a year ago (when his original instructions did not work and I troubleshooted and fixed them for my laptop) is now part of his readme (without credit to me, mind you, not that I care for it...). Here is the complete feedback I provided, only part of which has been incorporated:

"(1) Following your installation instructions to the letter, all was good until and including installing the PEAK drivers so my laptop would see the CANbus adapter (solid red light on the adapter). Problem was that I could not get the ScooterDiag program to run. I got an error message that said that the "msvcp71.dll" was missing. After some google time, it turns out this is some Microsoft-provided library that could be coped from other locations on the computer. This I did - just searched my hard drive for it and found several versions of it. I used one that was in the folder for some camera software that I had on my computer - copied that and pasted it in the ScooterDiag folder where the scooterdiag.exe is. There is already a similarly named file there, "msvcr71.dll", which I did not touch. At this point, the ScooterDiag would start without errors.

(2) The ScooterDiag was not seeing the CANbus - red in the status window. On Visiforvoltage I had seen a thread about that issue and the solution there worked for me too:

(a) in the ScooterDiag folder there should be a PCAN_USB.dll. rename that to PCAN_USB_old.dll.

(b) Get a different version of it from the PEAK web site and save it in the ScooterDiag folder where the renamed DLL is. The address to get it from is this: http://www.peak-system.com/produktcd/Develop/PC%20interfaces/Windows/PCAN-Light%20API/Win32/PCAN_USB.dll That's it - now the software shows green in the status area and sees the CANBus."

Jim Lowder
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Re: My Charge with new The Laird´s Team software nimh

Got it, thank you, works awesome!!!

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