EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

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Weee
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Anybody heard anything from EVTA lately? They've stopped returning my emails and calls about a week ago. Controller replacement instructions were supposed to be "in the mail" last week, but I still haven't received them. Also, the controller is supposed to touch down in the States tomorrow (3/13), so we'll see if that stated delivery date is met.

Anybody else try contacting them lately? Perhaps I've been blacklisted because of my squeaky wheel tendancies? To be clear, I've never been confrontational or rude in my interactions with EVTA.

Thanks.

Update: The controllers are Stateside.

pchilds
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

I have not heard from EVTA since January 19th. I sent them a certified letter on February 26th and have not received the return receipt. I faxed the letter; so, I know they received the letter. I am not at all surprised.

Philip

Philip
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PJD
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Weee,

So, by "the controllers are stateside" do you mean that EVTA contacted you?

This is looking like almost an exact replay of the e-max debacle. The Chinese have elevated shoddy workmanship and fraud, and scammery to an ethic.

Or, is this a conspiracy to discredit the concept of EV's among the US public - the Chinese mfg. getting paid off by General Motors to produce crap.

But hang in there, after repairing or having to modify practically everything on them, my e-maxs have been running reliably. Just think of your Z-20s as a new hobby - at least it is cheaper than keeping up a boat.

Mountain chen
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

PJD:

Pls don't sum up everything to Chinese reputation or quality.

Both EVTA and E-max were not just buy & sell of chinese products. Thomas,boss of E-max spent 4 year in china and control every details and every parts by himself.

Andy of EVTA spent half a year in china,all cheap motor/controllers are specified by himself and production is under his control too.

Those are not simple BUY / SELL,chinese have little responsibility on this quality issue.All caused by Andy and Ferenando who are American..... (I don't want to displease American,maybe they come from Cuba oversea)

ZAPINO come from China too,and ZAP have no engineers stay in Xiamen more than 3 days,They just buy and sell our scooters,all parts are sourcing by Chinese and controlled by Chinese engineer.But ZAPINO don't have such big trouble than EVTA and E-max.

So,people should know that factor which cause the quality problem and disappear of the importers.

agbueno
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Weee,

I did talk with Fernando few days ago. It seems Fernando has been sick lately and as a two-man company I think that's why you haven't heard a word from them lately.
My Z-20 also has the issue where the controller gets stuck in high with no load. I have not tried to replicate the phenomena to avoid frying the controller. Do you think my controller has also started to fail?
I read in some of the PDFs sent by EVTA that the controller has an internal relay and that's why we must turn the circuit breaker off before we charge the scooter. Does that make any sense to you?

Alex

GrooveConnection
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

"....Pls don't sum up everything to Chinese reputation or quality.

Oh...why not? The track report of chinese goods is one of the worst in the world, almost as bad as goods from the former GDR, East Germany.

"....Both EVTA and E-max were not just buy & sell of chinese products. Thomas,boss of E-max spent 4 year in china and control every details and every parts by himself.

Yeah I have an EMAX! Needless to say, you should pick better examples. Thomas (who should be standing in front of a judge anyhow) made the huge mistake of returning to Germany, and immediately the good chinese bosses starting skimping on materials, substituting weak metals for the screws, on the QC etc.
If you produce in china, you better stay there and watch your manufacturer every step of the way.
Mountain, you got a truckload of learning to do. How about spending some time in Japan?? I guess their standards would scare the living &*(^% out of you and all the others doing any kind of sino-business.

"....ZAPINO come from China too,and ZAP have no engineers stay in Xiamen more than 3 days,They just buy and sell our scooters,all parts are sourcing by Chinese and controlled by Chinese engineer.But ZAPINO don't have such big trouble than EVTA and E-max.

oh now EMAX is the BAD example?? Got to laugh ya know ;-)
And ZAPINO's troubles are just unfolding. If you read this forum, you will understand immediately that there is no trustworthy chinese vehicle at this point, i.m.o.

"...So,people should know that factor which cause the quality problem and disappear of the importers.

Mountain, thanks but we know already!

In your defense, Vectrix and the others ain't doing so much better either, sadly ;-(

Here's to hoping china will learn the same way Japan did in 1980 when their products suddenly became first rate! But you ain't there yet by a goddarn longshot!

My 20 cents ;-)

Mountain chen
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

If you don't like chinese products ,you may take off your clothing ,your shoes...etc,no one force you to use chinese products.

Vectriex is not so perfect either even after 12years and a lot of investment,you can see a lot of complain on this forum too.

Thomas didn't come back to Germany,he set up new E-max in Wuxi,China with different concept....

The difference between china & Japan is that too many manufacturers in China which bring western people a lot of opportunity to compare price among them and cut the cheapest materials between them.and finally cause the low quality, If western buyers don't instigate competition,the situation of chinese products won't be too bad.

That's why EVTA pick up the no-experience factory in Hunan province,Zhuzhou is a inland city where the only advantage is cheaper labour costs than Xiamen so that Andy can get the biggest margin ..........voracious broker.

pchilds
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

biggest margin

If they replace all the junk parts, they will have less margin, than doing it correctly in the first place.

Philip

Philip
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ihope2
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

I think it's time to do a new tally...

Who is operating and not operating?

Are you still having good luck Don?

And on another note... I too thought ScooterTech on voltrider.net was the same poster as usatracy here, similar writing style and technical know-how, but don't know for sure if I'm correct. Either way, if you can make an R-20 run well either way and are willing to share/sell your tips/process, go for it and godspeed! Just be civil and upfront in the process.

peace,
stacy

pchilds
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

One thing to note, is Don probably weighs at most 130 lbs, not much if a strain on the scooter. When I am on my Z20 it is carrying twice the weight as Don's Z20. Also, Don is in San Francisco, it almost never gets above 70 deg F there, maybe 80 deg F for a day or two a year, many other places it can get above 100 deg F for weeks at a time. Don has not been lucky, he just hasn't put the specified 300 lbs on it and tried to climb some of those SF hills. It would be dead in no time if he did.

Philip
2011 Nissan Leaf SL

DWrath
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Mine is still not running properly. I'm waiting (like everyone else) for a replacement part, mine is the throttle. In the meantime, I did take my scooter apart (pain in the arse) and wired it for bank charging (USATracy, God rest his soul, would be proud). Received an email back from EVT on Monday saying they expected the shipment to go out on Friday and arrive in 5 working days (which would be today Friday) and then ship to me; Andy said he would call when it is shipped (I'm not holding my breath). Definitely starting to regret this decision; I'm probably going to be rebuilding this thing myself until it's running like I want it, just what I need, another hobby.

Weee
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

DWrath,

I can vouch that the parts ordered from China are in. I just went down to the Schenker warehouse here in Washington to pick up my controller (Wednesday). I would imagine you'd have your part by next week if things ship smoothly.

I felt the same way you did about regretting my decision to buy a Z-20b, but am re-invigorated after receiving the new part. Now... if only EVTA can get those installation instructions out...

Weee

pchilds
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

I still have not heard from EVTA, the post office said, that they did sign for my letter, the stub should have been here by now.

It is easy to miss some/many when you are neck deep in broken scooters.

Philip
2011 Nissan Leaf SL

DonCristobal
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

One thing to note, is Don probably weighs at most 130 lbs, not much if a strain on the scooter. When I am on my Z20 it is carrying twice the weight as Don's Z20. Also, Don is in San Francisco, it almost never gets above 70 deg F there, maybe 80 deg F for a day or two a year, many other places it can get above 100 deg F for weeks at a time. Don has not been lucky, he just hasn't put the specified 300 lbs on it and tried to climb some of those SF hills. It would be dead in no time if he did.

Phillip,

You're about as correct as a Z-20 speedo...you know, off by about 20%.

I weigh 170, but I am very happy that I look like I weigh 130 lbs because I haven't done a lick of exercise since January and I am growing.

The temperature here varies widely depending on what part of the city you live in. I live in the warmest part of the city, the Mission District. The temp is usually between 85-90 for at least one week a year during which time people complain that it is like living in hell. The temp will be above 70 for at least 60 days a year. One of the reason SF temp averages appear so low is that in a week where you've got a Monday and Tuesday at 75 degrees you end up with a Weds-Fri that never goes past 55 degrees.

I climb hills, but only occasionally the crazy ones.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
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Ohm is where the heart is.

DonCristobal
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

ihope,

The bike still runs fine but it is falling apart. I have decided not to ride it again until I give it a thorough tightening and make sure that there aren't any things missing. The whole lack of washers and bent screws gives me just a little bit of alarm.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
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Ohm is where the heart is.

reikiman
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

One of the reason SF temp averages appear so low

For those who don't live here... the coldest winter Samuel Clemens ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.

astar
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

I can vouch that the parts ordered from China are in. I just went down to the Schenker warehouse here in Washington to pick up my controller (Wednesday). I would imagine you'd have your part by next week if things ship smoothly.

Weee and others who have bad controllers: Did EVTA request that you send the bad controller back to them? I sent EVTA my fried controller to help them "figure out the problem". It's in transit now and they should get it Tuesday. After I sent them the tracking number, Andy replied back with this:

In regards to the old controller, I will wait to receive it as it is under warrantee and I need to send it back to the manufacturer. I just hope that when you opened it you did not destroy it, as it will be impossible for us to return it in this condition and we will have to charge you for the new controller. Please look at the note below. If you simply took it apart and I can put it back together in one piece (even if it is burned inside) then it will be free of charge. I will send the new controller within 48 hours.

His "note below" is a link to the FAQ page on their web site. Most likely, I will not be getting a replacement from them since I opened mine up and "damaged" the case in the process. I also clipped off the wires so I could use the same connectors with my Kelly replacement controller.

ZEV 7100 Alpine
Fort Collins, CO

jdh2550_1
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

How is your replacement Kelly controller working out for you?

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

astar
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

How is your replacement Kelly controller working out for you?

Don't have it yet. It just cleared customs. I'll do a full report when I get it installed and working. I'm pretty busy right now with non-EV projects, but hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be running around town at 40 mph or better. I have two problems to solve in order to interface the Kelly controller to the Z-20: The brake switch and the sidestand switch. The other connections seem to map one to one.

On the Kelly the brake/regen seems to be controlled by connecting two signals from the controller, whereas on the Z I have a 12v signal when the brake is on (same circuit as brake light). There is no direct interface for the side stand on the Kelly controller, but there is a throttle enable, which also seems to get enabled when two Kelly controller signals lines are connected; so I'm planning on using the side stand switch to enable the throttle. The side stand on the Z has a normally closed switch which ties an EVTA controller line to ground; when the side stand is up, the switch is open and the controller enables power. I'm thinking I have to use two 12v relays to tie in these signals to the Kelly controller; A normally open one for the brake signal, and a normally closed one for the side stand/throttle enable. If anyone knows an easier way, let me know.

BTW, the Kelly controller I ordered is new, and is not even on their web site. After I ordered it, they had to delay shipping a couple of days because it was not ready. I think I'm the first one receiving the KEB72451, so I guess I'm going to be a guinea pig for this too.

ZEV 7100 Alpine
Fort Collins, CO

fcherny
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Hi. I just talked with Andy. He is sending me the controller now - it should arrive "definitely this week" (his words). He is also preparing instructions for taking out the old one and replacing it with the new.

I'll let you know when the controller "really" arrives.

Fred
z20b owner

ihope2
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

why do i feel like such an idiot about these electric scooters...

(and for spending a bunch of savings on an unreliable product)

...maybe if i had a complete owner's manual, it wouldn't be so bad... but i wonder if that's even EVER going to happen. (is it illegal to sell a motorized vehicle without an owner's manual? or just really stupid?)

...so if the dc to dc converter is my problem, where is it at on the scooter and how do i test/replace it?

andy has not returned my phone calls or emails for two weeks now.

peace.

astar
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

The DC-DC converter looks like this.
CIMG0633.jpg
Hard to see in this photo, but it's the black rectangular box with silver on top just above the rear spring. Says "Made Exclusively for EVT America" on it. It should have 3 wires going into it: Black (ground), Yellow (12v), and red/pink (60v). I'm just guessing about the yellow/red, but one is converter output, and the other is the string voltage input. First set your volt meter to DC voltage. Clip the black meter lead to ground: the black wire on terminal block is fine. Find a narrow nail or pin, and use this on the red lead from your meter. Slip the pin into the DC-DC connector red wire - you should get 60 - 66 volts. If not, then your problem is not the DC-DC converter. If you get the right voltage, check the yellow wire: you should get something near 12 volts. If not, then you have confirmed it's your DC-DC convertor, assuming that it's fully plugged in. If you get a good voltage on the yellow wire, you have some other problem.

ZEV 7100 Alpine
Fort Collins, CO

DonCristobal
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Z-20 Fact of the Day:

Placing a fast moving drill bit into the noisemaking device on the turn signal circuit board and letting it grind around a bit will cause the noisemaker to stop making noise.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

IbeRKT
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Z-20 Fact of the Day:

Placing a fast moving drill bit into the noisemaking device on the turn signal circuit board and letting it grind around a bit will cause the noisemaker to stop making noise.

LOL ..... Sounds similar to the "If at first you don't succeed , get a bigger hammer" theory.

peasler
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Hi Don - got about 550 miles (actually km) on my R-20 now. Wanted to know what your odometer is up too as well. Bike is doing well, with no complaints. Certainly worth 20% the price of a Vectrix. Take care. Thinking about ordering a 2nd recharger to keep at work.

Phil

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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

I believe that my odo is at 680 or something like that.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

DonCristobal
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Anyone out there try getting a new tire to fix the odo? Also, does anyone have a good recommendation on some aftermarket shocks I could throw on the bike? The stock shocks suck.

Don Cristobal
EVTA Z-20b
---
Ohm is where the heart is.

mylife4u
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

hi all just uncrated my z-20 yesterday and took it out for a short ride. everything seems to be working fine so far. i was a little nervous about that after doing some reading in this forum. for instance the low rumble the motor makes when taking off, that is normal right? yea the speedo is way off. the side stand dosent swing out far enough but, thats easily fixed with a dremel. ive read somewere on here i cant find it, about turning the breaker off before charging? to keep things simple for now i will buy a 12 volt charger from lows and ones a week indivually charge each battery. what i know about electric scooters ive read from here.
Any other suggestions?

gowens
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Yes, the grinding noise is normal when you first start out. And YES, turn off the circuit breaker when charging. Turning off the CB isolates the charger to only the batteries. You may want to search this site for bank charging ideas. It works well and may extend the battery life.

Enjoy

agbueno
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Re: EVTA Z20/R20 ownership summary

Guys,

This is just to let you know that my Z-20 is up and running very well. I've reached 163 miles so far (130 real miles because my speedo is 20% off). After Andy fixed the controller I have not had any issues. My 13 miles daily commute is consuming 1.22 kWh and takes 3:45 hs to recharge. I calculate that I'm spending 15 cents per day. With my car I believe the bill would be $2.27.

Alex

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