Updated your operating or non operating status

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gowens
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Joined: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 13:22
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Re: R20 woes

Have you checked the side kick stand ?
there is a switch on it that prevents the motor from working while
the kickstand is down.

Also... does the new controller look like the old one ?
Just wondering if they are using different controllers.

peasler
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Re: R20 woes

gowens - yes, I held the kickstand switch in the up direction while the bike was turned on while turning the throttle, no luck, the motor hub would not turn over. The bike worked perfectly the day before. The controller looks identical to the old one, its (the old one) is probably just fine.

thanks

DWrath
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Re: Updated your operating or non operating status

Hello Evan
I had a throttle issue with my R-20 which was fixed when I replaced my throttle sent to me by EVT America. My symptoms were: would start going without turning the throttle, would increase in speed as the throttle was turned to max of only 30 mph, then would actually decrease in speed at the end of turning the throttle.
To check to see if it is your throttle you'll need to take off the front shield (guess you've had some experience with this) then follow the wires from the controller to where it attaches to another 6 pin connector (though there are only three wires being connected); then take the wires off one side of the connector (use a very small screwdriver or nail) and use your voltmeter to test the volts across the wires. Just touch the red handle of your voltmeter to the yellow wire and your black handle to the black wire and that should give you the volts. Per Andy at EVT America, the volt reading should be 0 at idle and top out at 4.6 volts as the throttle is turned. My broken throttle would start out at 2.5 volts increase to 3 volts as the throttle was turned and then drop down to 2.6 volts at the end of the throttle turn.
Good luck

gowens
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Re: R20 woes

One more idea...
If you have removed the alarm (like I did) you need to
jumper a couple of wires on the alarm connector since one
of the throttle wires passes thru the alarm.

And there have been several reports of broken wires
from the trottle.

peasler
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Re: R20 woes

The bike is back on line. Checked all connectors and noticed that one wire at the circuit breaker was lose. Tighten down all the wires on the circuit breaker and then tried the throtle and the motor ran. Did a 15 km test ride and everthing is now working. On to the 1000km milepost!!

solarjdp
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z20b in Chico

I have recently changed to the Bopper Michelin Tire and have to report the ride is WAAAYYYY better with this tire. The speedo is also very close to the actual speed now. Top sped says about 41-42mph and that tally's with speedo in honda Accord.

I also replace the bogus cheapo mirrors with Honda mped mirrors. They are chromed and round but stick out nicely so you CAN see around your body, but more importantly they STAY in place..

Cheers.

mikejuv
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Re: z20b in Chico

I have recently changed to the Bopper Michelin Tire

I also replace the bogus cheapo mirrors with Honda mped mirrors.

Could you give specifics on the tire and mirrors. Did you replace both tires? Where did you get them, cost, specs, etc.

I would like to do the same, so any help in locating the exact parts you have found to work well would be appreciated.

NovaScooters
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Re: z20b in Chico

Search for Bopper, we have extensively recommended this tire for XM-2000 and the EVT-A bikes as well to fix speedo odo and improve handling, we are the scooter experts after all, been there done that.

motorcycle superstore is your best best

bopper will NOT fit on rear and if it did you would fry your motor controller

have a nice day

As reported in August 2007

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/1802

mikejuv
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Re: z20b in Chico

we have extensively recommended this tire for XM-2000 and the EVT-A bikes as well to fix speedo odo and improve handling, we are the scooter experts after all, been there done that.

bopper will NOT fit on rear and if it did you would fry your motor controller

For the front tire I ordered the Michelin Bopper 120/90L-10 [$44 w/ shipping]

Would you recommend the Michelin S1 90/90J-10 for the rear tire on an Z/R20, as mentioned in the previous XM thread? It's only $35 w/ shipping, so if it's recommended I'll get it. Eventually everything on this bike will be upgraded anyway so why not, right? ;)

NovaScooters
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Re: Updated your operating or non operating status

We have used the S1 in various sizes with various results.

We have found going to a SMALLER tire increases accel AND top speed on the stock motor and the NOVA Commuter motors, this is because the motors get into a better torque curve area for the larger American riders. So in this case, bigger, or even close to the same, is not necessarily better.

Never having found a working Z, we can't provide any tire test results for them.

With that said, here is our ballpark recommendation for the Z and R rear tire.

110/80-10 will be 1.5% overstock, we do not recommend this size for these bikes, will hurt performance and heat up controller and motor unless the rider weight is 125 pounds or less or lithium batts are installed and the lead removed, with a lightweight rider/bike, this tire would increase speeds. If you are really light, a 110/90-10, (made for front tire only but we have run it on the back) is available which is 6.8% overstock, but we dont recommend this at all. Prior to 2003 this tire was used on the rear of some Honda Elites, then it was placarded front tire only by the manufacturer, there must be a reason. This weird tire is hard to find and only one manufacturer has it. We tested it for about ten miles and pulled it as there was no benefit to a lead bike with a 180 pound rider and motor controller temps went up, same for the Bopper (11% overstock) where they really went up and accel was poor.

90/90-10 1.9% understock, probably the best choice for those 190 pounds or less that do not routinely carry extra weight, passengers, trailers etc... We ran this tire for several thousand miles while pulling a trailer using both the stock XM motor and the NS Commuter.

80/90-10 5.8% under stock, good for those 200 pounds and up or with passengers or trailers. We are running this tire now on the NOVA Commuter and have been for over 1,000 miles, top speeds dropped from 46.5 to 43 mph but torque and hills when fully loaded with passenger and trailer are phenomenal.

We use the MB520 URBAN MASTER but can also be had in the Bridgestone Hoop series

http://www.tiresunlimited.com/ALL%20TIRES/Bridgestone/bridgestone_scooter.htm

solarjdp
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Re: z20b in Chico

I bought the Bopper tire from my local Honda dealer. They installed it. Tire was 37.50, install labor was 30.00.

Honda metropolitan scooter mirrors. They were $ 17.50 each.

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2008models/2008models-Honda-Metropolitan.htm

links to page showing scooter, 4th or so pic. down shows mirrors. They come in White (shown) or chrome, not shown but same style and shape.

solarjdp

jimv
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Re: z20b in Chico

Do the Honda mirrors directly replace the existing mirrors? i.e., do they have the same thread and screw in where the old mirrors are mounted?
If you have the windshield, did it still mount ok with the new mirrors?

Scotty
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Re: R20 woes

I don't have an R-20 but I have a Z-20a. One thing I have noticed but I haven't seen mentioned here, is the brake is also tied into the controller. If the brake is activated, the controller disengages. Make sure your brake light is off.

I mention this because my Z-20a has hand covers and my left brake handle sometimes touches the cover and is just enough to keep the light activated but without any brake drag. I appears the brake handle might not have a strong enough spring to push it out all the way at times. I have had the bike start and quit a couple of times, and I have also not gotten any response once or twice starting from a stop.

I've gotten into the habit of pushing the handle out when I release it, and so far have not had any further problems.

I have about 210 miles (380 km) on it so far and it has been perfect for my mission. It is not without a few rough edges, but so far, I am happy with my purchase and would buy it again. I've never ridden a motorcycle so I can't compare the suspension. The ride is very smooth on good roads, but roads with lots of cracks and holes make me slow down.

Based on GPS readings, when my speedometer hits 50 I'm doing about 40. I have had it pegged past 50 but didn't have the GPS to the confirm speed, but I am confident it is performing as advertised. Honestly, 40 is plenty fast enough for me.

Some of the things I have experienced...
1. Ignition switch cover was jammed. After removing the cover it works fine, it just doesn't look perfect.
2. High beam was not working. Got instruction on removing the front from Andy and found a broken wire. After repair has been working fine.
3. I found the windshield was working the control modules loose. After reading post on the windshield, I decided to remove it. I may try to fabricate a bracket from the large screw by the headlights that goes into the frame to the bottom of the windshield to stabilize it. That should solve the problem but isn't needed as the temps warm up. But I must say what a difference the windshield makes. Much more comfortable in cold weather with it on, but quieter with it off.
4. I have had the power quit or no power when throttle applied from a stop on several occasions. My working theory is the brake light switch on my front brake. So far, making an effort to push the brake handle out after releasing it has prevented any reoccurrence.
5. Still waiting for the owners manual but some information was emailed by EVT.

By the way, I have a set of solar panels I use to store power during the day to recharge it when I get home. So far, I have ridden almost exclusively solar powered! Not really cheaper than plugging it in, but energy independence feels great!

Scott...

DWrath
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Re: R20 woes

Thanks for your update Scott and encouraging words re. your bike. I also thought about doing the solar panels or a wind generator to power my scooter, but here in TX we can choose our electric companies and the one I selected uses 100% renewable energy (wind, solar, etc). I know that the energy from the power company goes into the grid and I'm not truly getting all my electricity from this source, but it helps to think you're making a difference by supporting a company that's generating cleaner electricity. Keep up the good work.

evthinman
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Re: Updated your operating or non operating status

great to hear someone else is using solar power. i have hooked up a solar array (8, 75 watt) through a charge controller (solar converters inc.), which charge both the Z20 and a ZAP PK truck directly. I have submitted an article around this to Home Power Magazine. If they accept, i will post a link. for those that can't afford or want solar charging, remember that even with using coal powered grid energy, you are putting less emissions into the environment with an EV than the internal combustion counterparts. way to go all!

sgmdudley
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Re: Updated your operating or non operating status

Where did you get the solar panels and controller? I do not have the ability to charge at work so I am interested in setting up a charge station on-site at my job. I have the
ZAP Zapino with 60v motor and 5 SLA batteries.

Robert Dudley
E-Scoot Tech

evthinman
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Re: Updated your operating or non operating status

These particular panels I got used off Ebay and Craigslist for around 2$/watt. The array is 8, Seimens 75-watt panels. The charge controller comes from a company called Solar Converters. They will special make a controller for you if you give them the battery bank specs and the solar array specs. hope that helps.

solarjdp
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Re: mirrors for Z20b

Honda mirrors are the same thread. There are two main thread types, 5mm and 8mm. Z20's are the smaller and most scooter mirrors are the same.

Scotty
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Re: Updated your operating or non operating status

There are several places on-line that you can order solar panels and controllers. I'm not going to claim I found the best deal town, but the prices were reasonable and sales rep knowledgable (although a little hard to get hold of sometimes). I got my items from http://www.mrsolar.com/. I bought the following from them...

5 - BSP 85 Watt Solar Panels
1 - Morningstar SunsaverDuo charge controller

They sell mounts for the panels, but I mounted them myself for much less. The frames are solid with mounting holes already drilled. I think I put three panels together with 7/8 x 6 boards (i.e. decking boards) and two panels together with 1 x 4 (i.e. fence slats). Then used some 1-1/4" plumbing fittings to make a 45 degree mount that supports the panels at two points and attaches to my fence posts.

The SunsaverDuo can charge two banks of batteries. So, I have four 105 amp-hour 12v deep cycle batteries in parallel for the first bank and two 85 amp-hour 12v deep cycle batteries for the second bank. With my setup, 90% of the power goes to charge the first bank (used to recharge the scotter) and 10% the second (used to drive some home appliances). If the first bank is charged, all power will go to the second until charged.

Here is some of what I have learned. I need to collect about 90 amp-hours to recharge from my 10 mile round trip. So far, the best I have done is to get about 110 amp-hours in a day. But I may be able to get to 150 amp-hours with some tweaking.

It may seem the 420 amp-hours of battery is enough to put 90 amp-hours back into the scooter, but the amp-hour ratings are based on pulling the power out over 20 hours. Because the scooter pulls the power at a much faster rate, you can effectively only expect about 30-50% of the rated power. So, the four battery pack is good to recharge up to around 15-20 miles (about 150-170 amp-hours or about 1800 watt-hours).

I'm using a 600 watt true sine wave inverter (from Fry's) to plug the scooter charger into. I didn't want to risk burning anything out and it is more efficient than a modified sine wave inverter (although it would probably work). The charger pulls about 450 watts at the start and then tapers down as the batteries near charged.

There are lots of inefficiencies in this system, but it still meets my goal of collecting the power I use in one day. By the way, don't underestimate the size wire you will need. You need big wires for high currents at low voltages. I think the Mr. Solar site has a chart to give you an idea of the size wires you would need for the distance your panels are from your controller. I'm running a 12 gauge pair and a 10 gauge pair in parallel and this is still undersize for my run (65 feet).

If I ride every day, I will probably only get to fully recharge from the solar 2 or 3 days of the 5 due to weather conditions. But this is largely an experiment for me and is also a source of home backup power if I should need it.

This post is already getting a bit long, but you have any other questions, just let me know.

Scott...

Scotty
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Re: R20 woes

By the way, I mentioned trying to stablize the windshield by making a bracket to the screw on the front deck. Before someone else says it, yes, bad idea! I didn't realize what I was saying until I looked at the picture of my scooter again and realized the windshieid turns with the fork the frame does not! :)

Overload
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Z20-b sign in status

Received mine from the second batch with the better wood base for shipping. Z20b in blue. Cold weather prevented me from doing much more than quick tests until last month. I now ride it almost daily as the weather improves to/from work. The drive is about 4 miles each way and is posted 40mph, so I'm at 100% throttle most of the time. I can get one round trip from full with only 1 bar down, but the second trip drops me into the red, usually.

Problems:
Ignition switch cover stuck, and then fell off.
Headlights are pointed too far down.
Mirrors suck.
Indicated 35mph tripped a local speed sign at 24mph. Top speed pins the speedo.
Throttle occasionally cuts out, but a flip of the side stand fixes it.
Noise from the front end.
Noise from the front brake (different than above)
Trunk 'broke'. Had it parked at work, and guy came in with the lid, said it was on the ground next to scooter. Both hinges were broken. I assume this wasn't wear, but someone breaking into it. Trunk contents were charger bag and trunk pad, which were both still there. (trunk was locked, no alarm)
Alarm goes off sometimes for no reason. I rarely use it, as I don't want to lose power.

Still, I'm happy. It's fast enough, and has enough range for daily use.

Overload in CO

Overload in CO

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