R-30 Anyone?

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Whisper
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R-30 Anyone?

:jawdrop: I am looking at an R-20 in a few days, conceptually I am stoked, but after reading through the headaches experienced by memebers of this forum - I am a little concerned. As luck would have it, the local EVT America dealer in Council Bluffs, Iowa says an R-30 model will be out soon and it has corrected ALL the problems associated with the R-20. Should I wait? What do you all know about the R-30?

andrew
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

I can't find any info on the web about the R-30.

I would be a lot more than a little concerned about buying an R-20. I would definitely wait. And I would only buy anything manufactured by EVT-America if it is fully backed by a complete warranty for 6 months from a local dealer.

Given what else is available on the market, the only reason I could imagine anyone buying an EVT-America scooter is if there is full local dealer support.

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
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Whisper
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

It does have local support. Not your typical Brick & Mortar dealer, more like thatch & mud, but EVY-America has them on their website.

What else would you recommend? I want to use this for commutes of 18 miles roundtrip on roads which do not exceed 45 mph. I was all geared up to purchase a gas scoot, but there are few available in our area which are inexpensive; sure Vespa, Honda & yamaha are well represented. Then I started researching the electric scoots and the heavens oppend up and I was transformed.

Got an electric scoot recommendation for my commute? I would prefer a dealership proximate to Omaha for my tireless questions and need for a dependable ride.

"Size does not matter" - Aldo Leopold

Weee
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Here's the perspective from a Z-20b owner. I won't speak on the Z-30 as I know absolutely 0 about it; but will comment on the Z-20.

1. You run a very high risk of receiving a Z-20 out of the crate that will have problems (most likely major problems like controller failure).

2. The Z-20 does not really get above 35 mph in real world driving.

3. Though I believe they are trying to help, service from EVTA in Florida is slow and unreliable.

4. There is no possible way the Z-20 can travel 45 miles in real world driving. I'm not sure it can get a 45 mile range even in optimal driving conditions. The furthest I've taken it on one charge is about 25 mile, and I am a 160lb rider riding is fairly ideal conditions.

5. Think of the Z as a project, not a true option for transportation. It will require significant modification to get it to a reliable state.

I was a strong EVTA supporter and even mailed in my deposit site unseen about a year ago. After countless delays, I remained optimistic that the product would be worth the wait. After 2 broken controllers, I still remained optimistic that EVTA would make things right. After receiving my FOURTH replacement controller, I have lost nearly all confidence in EVTA to make the situation right. I've had representative at EVTA openly mock my attempts to request help, saying 'it was an entertaining voicemail' that I left regarding my 3rd controller failure.

I have no expectation that EVTA is willing to invest the needed funds to make things right for the slew of Z/R owners that have problems. Browse these boards. You will see many posts stating 'I contacted EVTA, but have not received a response.' Also go back and read my previous posts and you will see that I have been a staunch supporter of EVTA from the beginning, and not merely an EVTA hater. At this point, I only turn to EVTA for support since I do not have the expertise to do many things myself.

Thank goodness for the information found on V is for Voltage!

Your situation may be better since you have a dealer that is willing to offer you support. As Andrew mentioned, be crystal clear on the level of support that they are going to give you. This is vital as you are very likely to have problems with the bike.

If you were a personal friend asking for my verdict on EVTA products, I would give an emphatic "DON'T BUY." This is the opinion of an EVTA customer with no vested interest in the company (other than their ability to help me fix my bike).

Whisper
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Given the number of controllers you've been through, I can appreciate your angst over recommending an EVT scoot. That said, the local dealer/repair hut, encourages me to investigate further (I'm a sucker for local suppoert). If, I done't get the warm & fuzzies from the local guy, then I'll be driving a TANK, http://www.tank-sports.com/. If I do buy it - the local dealer will be seeing a lot of me (I know where he lives) if I am not able to use this.

I also believe the folks at EVT are doing the right thing with limited resources - pretty typical of a start-up. They are addressing the OEM controller issue by replacing with Kelly; beefing up the throttle circuity; and revamping the charge system. Like other ElecVeh manufacturers, they are keeping a close eye on energy storage technologies and the cost benefit ratio of same.

The goal of making an affordable, yet functional scoot is to be applauded...but one only has so much patience. I understand the R-30 will be out this fall and includes many upgrades and redo's - resulting in increased speed and dependability.

"Size does not matter" - Aldo Leopold

pchilds
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

If your local dealer can't get replacement parts for months, will you be happy with your purchase? If the replacement parts fail with in a few miles of installation, will you be happy? I don't see EVTA changing the way they do business, anytime soon. If your dealer does something to anger Andres, (it is very easy to make him angry, when I sent an email to Andres saying that it was unacceptable to have a speedometer that is off by 10 mph and odometer that is in KM, that is when support from EVTA ended for me.) I guarantee he will get the same treatment that many of us Z/R20 buyers have received, being put on "ignore forever".

Philip

Philip
2011 Nissan Leaf SL

gushar
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

I'd go with an X-treme product. I can't speak for the 3000 or the upcoming 3500li. But, it seems from the reports we're getting here that the majority of issues with the 3000 are reasonably the usual body panel damage, etc. that you might get from any of these scoots being drop shipped in the manner they are sent to you. Also, Mountain Chen who posts here is apparently directly involved in the development, design and export of these products and he seems to know what he is doing.

I know going with a company like X-treme pretty much cuts out local dealer support. But I agree with the previous post. You have to realize there's not enough money in this for a local dealer to really provide the kind of support that you seem to be wanting. They will promise you anything to get a sale...but don't count on that support. And, even if they are willing to give every bit of support they can...it's a matter of "what they can do" as described with their support from the importer/manufacturer. And that seems to be very little. I must say I frown when I hear people talking about "dealer support" on here. Even the Vectrix costing upwards of $10,000 now doesn't seem to provide the "usual" dealer support people are accustomed to with other type vehicles. It's just not there in my opinion and don't fool yourself into believing it is. If you are not prepared to become your "own" support, at some level learning alot about what you will be riding, and prepaired to do your own maintenance....then do not buy an electric scooter. I think they're great and I encourage folks to try one. But, I don't encourage anyone to buy one unless they really want to go the extra mile, no puns intended, to be able to repair their ride rather than depend upon "dealers" who really don't exist in any meaningful way. Hope I don't make any so called "dealers" mad with my comments but that's what I think at this stage of the electric scooter market.

Gushar

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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Be aware often with small importer/distributors such as EVTA, that even if the local dealer wants to do the right thing, he may not get the part and support from the importer.

I would definitely recommend http://www.novascooters.com.
From the many detailed technical postings here and elsewhere I've read, I would venture to say Nova scooters have the most diligent, capable, and experienced people in the escooter field so your chances of a low defect, reliable, and long lasting scooter are probably higher with them than with anyone else.

Scotty
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

If you haven't already found it, go to this link (http://www.evtamerica.com/r_20.htm) and then scroll down to the comparison between the R-20 and the R-30. The same features apply to the Z-30 except the body style is different.

As a Z-20 owner, I can tell you just about every issue with the first production Z-20s are being addressed with the Z-30/R-30 models. I personally would not rule out purchasing an EVT "30" model.

When I bought my Z-20a, I fully expected there would be problems with the first production models, and there have been. But I considered the performance and technology being introduced to be worth the effort. I consider this technology important and hope I can contribute to making it better, so shortly down the road, these can be purchased and ridden with as high or higher reliability than gas powered scooters.

There may have been some difference in performance from scooter to scooter, but I can say that the one I received will easily do a true 42-43 miles per hour (GPS verified and I weight about 170).

I will say that at 45 mph, I consider the windshield mounting to be insufficient and would recommend it be removed. Traveling 20 miles between charges is a very real world expectation during the warmer months, and even greater at slower speeds.

Although, I am currently awaiting a replacement speed controller myself, if I were to do it over, I would purchase this bike again.

Scott...

Overload
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

THEY SAY all these problems are being addressed. We'll see what shows up.

Overload in CO

jdh2550_1
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

I wish them luck! They certainly had a baptism by fire last time around - but if the 30's are better than the 20's then it will be good to see another manufacturer who's prepared to stay the course and improve their products.

Now, who will give me odds on the bikes being available in September '08? ;-)

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

reikiman
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Now, who will give me odds on the bikes being available in September '08?

I'm not touching that with a 50 foot pole...

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
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pchilds
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

How about just before Christmas.roflao.gif

Philip
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Overload
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

I'd like some sort of upgrade path for x-20 owners. Either part upgrades or even trade in our x-20s (and a little cash) for a new 30.

Overload in CO

Weee
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

I hear ya, overload. It seems there should be some loyalty incentive for those of us that took the plunge and suffered the growing pains along with EVTA. However, I'm not holding my breath.

fcherny
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Overload,

Andy is offering a controller upgrade for all z-20 owners. You can upgrade to a Kelly controller for his cost: about $200. He's also going to provide a retrofit kit to help with installation. The Kelly controllers are now "in production" but they won't be here for 2 or 3 weeks (which probably means end of August or mid-Sept.).

Personally, I'd like to see a free upgrade for those of us who have waited months for a replacement controller and have already gone through two or three.

Fred.
z20-b blue

Weee
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

The cost for the Kelly replacement from EVTA is ~$350. I just spoke with Andy regarding this. I don't know where the $200 estimate comes from.

fcherny
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

I probably misspoke when I said it was open to "all z-20 owners". The context of my discussion with Andy was in regard to the problems I've been having with my bike.

I think it is more accurate to say that the $200 upgrade is only being offered to owners who are having "chronic" problems with their controllers.

The next time I talk with him (probably Friday), I'll try to clarify this.

Sorry for the confusion.

David V
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Just joined the group and hopefully will join the electric community soon.
I have just put my money down (deposit site unseen -ugg) for the new R-30. While
I did read the reviews on some of the problems you have had with the r-20/z-20,
Their literature, and it seems your complaints, have led them to make some
redesigns and hopefully improvements!
According to EVTAMERICA, the shipment of new bikes will come in mid OCT.
While I will take this with a grain of salt, I am hopefully optomistic that it will come around then.
Guess what it really came down to was speed (would get crushed on the roads if I was limited to 30 mph - hope the bike reaches 40+ actual mph), distance (16 mile r/t commute), cost, and style. Really hard to justify the 9k for a vetrix!

Have a couple of questions...
Is there any advice in breaking in the bike or maintenence techniques that helped you?
Is it worth carrying a portable battery charger (one that is used for a car jumpstart) for additional juice? They are 8-12 lbs and I wonder if the extra weight will negate any charge/distance that I would be able to use? Meaning a net zero or negative affect with distance because of weight. I have looked into collapsable solar panels (since it is sunny out here) but it seems 5 hrs in the sun would only charge up 4 AA batteries. Not worth 100 bux!

Seems like I may/will have to get my hands dirty with this one :)

Thanks in advance.
DV

Overload
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

From MY point of view, as a non electrician or enthusiast, but just someone who wanted an appliance to do urban duties, YMMV:

No break in is needed.
From what I now understand, the batteries used are closer to car batteries than laptop batteries. Therefore, it's always better to keep them topped off and not run them down. I don't know about the portable battery charger you mention. However, if you can get an extra regular charger, like the one that comes with your R-30, you can have one at home and one at work, that would be good, and probably a better idea than what you mention.

Overload in CO

Overload in CO

Scotty
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

As a Z-20 owner, my personal opinion is that EVT has done a terrific job of responded to the issues they have had with the first production Z-20 scooters by introducing the Z-30. Everything that I have noted as something that could be improved on my Z-20 is on the list for the Z-30.

One of the main problems with the Z/R-20 models has been the motor controller. And in my opinion, that has been a result of the controller not having circuitry to protect itself. The new Kelly built controller is smart enough to reduce power and if necessary, shut itself down, to prevent it from being damaged by over-current or over-heating. This should fix the controller problem once and for all. My understanding is they are also using a more reliable DC-DC controller (which I don't think had near as many problems as the motor controller).

My main complaint has been the amount of time it has taken to get warranty issues address, but they have addressed them. And as others have said, if you can reach Andy, he has been very accomodating, although overly optimistic about delivery dates.

Despite the issues I have had with my Z-20, when it is running, I love it! It is fun to ride and handles my commute perfectly (10 mile round trip). My scooter has been able to easily do 17 miles, even in temperatures near freezing, so I think it will work for your commute, as well. I don't think the portable charger you are talking about will do you any good, since the scooter is 60 volts (5-12 volt batteries) and the charger is 12 volts. You are better off carrying the charger that comes with the scooter with you. I have never had to do this, but stories I've heard from electric car owners, is people are more than willing to let you plug in to get a quick charge and you are rarely more than a hundred feet from the nearest outlet. Unlike gas stations!

As far as battery break in, it is best not to discharge them too deeply for the first dozen cycles or so. Also, you will greatly increase the life of the batteries if you can avoid discharging them below about 50% (I don't know if that actually corresponds to the half way mark on the battery meter). Of course, the other good news, is the Z-30 comes with a battery balancing circuit which will also greatly increase the life of your batteries.

I say, congratulations on your purchase, and happy scootering!!

Scott...

David V
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Thanks gents. Glad to hear that the EVT guys are responsive even if they are slow :)
Sounds like they took your recommendations into account as well.
Will post when I get the bike. And perhaps sooner if I have anymore questions.
A second charger at my office, genius :)

Now that I think about it, I do have two more questions...
1) How easy is it to take out the batteries to do the charging you recommend?
2) Is it worth getting the alarm system? How is the alarm activated?
Thanks again.
David

fcherny
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

David,

1) You will not want to, nor will you need to, remove the batteries from the bike. They are Very heavy. The charger that comes will the bike you will either carry with you or you'll keep a second at work that you can use. The battery balancer will be installed as part of the bike.

2) I haven't found anyone who's crazy about the alarm system. I don't mind it. But I wonder about its usefulness. It works just like your car alarm. When you switch the bike off, as you are leaving, you can activate the alarm with a press of a remote activation key. The lights flash. Your alarm is now on. If anyone bumps or touches the bike, it makes an annoying alarm sound for a few seconds, then shuts off. The problem is the constant drain on the batteries. It's not huge. But if you left the alarm on and had the bike sitting some where a couple of days... not sure what kind of condition your batteries would be in.

As far as expectations are concerned, I'll share with you my opinion: I would not expect the bike to arrive before Christmas. Last year, the bikes were expected to ship in Oct. But Andy forgot that there's a Chinese holiday the whole first week in October. After that, all the cargo ships are booked solid with Walmart goods, rushing their way to the States to make it in time for the Holidays. Since those factors should come into play this year, too, I image your bike will be delayed. I got mine 12/31/07.

Good luck. I'm hoping the best for you!
Fred
z20b

David V
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Thanks Fred.
WEll wont be able to charge the bike at work then.
Will bring along the charger just in case I stop by a friend's haus instead of go home. I will park my bike in a parking garage, or on the street, and there are no outlets available (I will ask garage but me thinks they will say nope). Hate to say it but I will probabaly drain my batteries to half full/empty before I recharge em.
Hope this isnt too hard on the batteries...As far as the alarm, will probably hold off on it and think I will roll the dice and take my chances.

If anyone has a suggestion on how to top off my batteries without an outlet near my bike, It would be greatly appreciated!

Will cross my fingers for mid Oct but think you may be probably right about late delivery. With the market tankin, etc. I think orders to fill the container may be slow!!! If I were them (EVT AMERICA), I would wait till I fill a container (maximize profits). Unsure how many that is but breaking point may be when there is enuf grumblin ...

Thanks again.
David

David V
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Expected shipment Mid oct?

Received the Boiler plate letter stating that the shiments are on time, there have been changes to the design and more repair/dealerships. Proof is in the puddin'.
We shall see. To be continued.
DV

... we wish to inform you, as promised in the WELCOME letter that you received from us when you REGISTERED, that we are on schedule to complete the manufacture and shipment from the factory of the first 2009 Models to the USA by the end of this month of September 2008.
...
We are pleased to inform you that the 2009 Models production is coming along excellently. The test results that we are receiving almost daily are totally satisfactory. We believe that our 2009 Models will be the best and most reliable electric motorcycles that can be purchased in the world market today at a reasonable price. We are very confident that you will be thrilled with your new electric bike.
We also wish to let you know that we are negotiating with close to sixty (60) potential Dealers and Repair Centers spread out throughout the USA. This vastly larger network of Dealers and Repair Centers should radically increase the efficiency of our Customer and Technical Support.
...
The Marketing Department
EVTAMERICA

monterj
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

I'm very impressed with the EVTAmerica website. It seems they really have listened to their customers and have brought a great product in the Z/R-30 model. They have definitely made me consider their product and are currently on the top of my EV scooter list.

The big thing for me is the upgrade to a LiFePO4 battery, which the R-30 doesn't have, so I'm going to hold off for a bit. I just got into the idea of transitioning to 2 wheels, and it's very exciting to think about it. I'm planning on purchasing one in the next few months, but with many new products around the corner, I don't want to regret my purchase.

undead
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Even the Vectrix costing upwards of $10,000 now doesn't seem to provide the "usual" dealer support people are accustomed to with other type vehicles.

Gushar

Sorry, got to put a mention in on this point - I own a Vectrix here in the UK, and had a small fault where a temp and battery light came up (sensor fault), I called Vectrix and they came to my work two working days later (at my choice), fixed the fault, upgraded the firmware and did a first service check on the bike, all for free. Plus the bike was delivered and checked personally by one of their service engineers.

This, in my opinion, is better than any main dealer support I have had. And being ex-field service, I have had a lot of new vehicles (mostly company cars) which I have gone through at a high rate due to use.

May be different in the US, but here they are absolutely first class, and I have never had to wait more than half an hour for a reply on email, or more than 2 minutes on the phone.

acree
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Received my EVT R-30 yesterday. Rode it for the first time today. I've never had an electric scooter before so I can't compare it to any others.

I am very pleased so far with the bike.

Rick

David V
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Hi All, got my scooter (r-30) as well.
As luck would have it torrential rains in LA and it never rains in southern california...
But had a break from rain and turkey, got the bike out for a spin and it was cool.
Have gone 40 miles and all's well. Now for Monday and my first commute to downtown.
Should be fine. It never rains in southern cali :)
D

acree
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

Have 70 km on my R-30 now. (According to EVT America's website the odometer is in km.)

Front tire wore a hole in the front brake line yesterday and the brake fluid leaked out.
EVT America is sending me a new brake line.

No problems with rear brakes which by themselves are plenty for stopping the scooter.

Rick

acree
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Re: R-30 Anyone?

I still do not have a replacement brake line from EVT.

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