What's the story with EVT America?

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findtheriver
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What's the story with EVT America?

I'd really appreciate any information about EVT America. Are these scooters still being made? Some friends and I have been looking at electric scooters recently. We're in the SF East Bay Area where there are several shops, including GreenMotors in Berkeley and Electric Motorsports in Oakland, which we've visited.

At Electric Motorsports, which appears to be the only EVT dealer in CA, they had one available, an EVT 168 in silver. The dealer said that he didn't expect any more in for 3-4 months, which I found surprising. Somewhat cryptically, he said it was NOT due to short supply, and did not provide any further clarification.

This seems odd for several reasons. It appears that electric scooter sales are increasing, especially in this area, and it seems absurd that the only dealer in CA does not have any. At GreenMotors, the dealer only had the Zap! Zapino model, and said the other scooter they carry (or used to carry), the Oxygen Lepton, was not being made anymore.

Now perhaps the short supply is due to higher sales recently, or changes in dealership status, or other reasons. I'm just concerned that other factors may be involved, like companies going out of business, repair and maintenance issues that have caused dealers to stop carrying EVT and Oxygen scooters, etc.

Thanks very much for any feedback on this.

reikiman
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

A couple comments ...

EVT America is not EVT .. that is, the EVT 168 and EVT 4000 are made by a different EVT than EVT America. It's a little confusing but EVT America used to import the EVT 168/4000 which are made by EVT Taiwan (evt.com.tw) but there was some decision made by EVT America to develop their own bike. Electric Motorsport took a different route.

You can look back in the history of this site and see the EVT America Z/R-20 was met with dozens of problems reported by our membership. It's hoped that EVT America is doing a redesign, and I recall someone here reported they had given up with solving problems with their controller and instead are going with a different controller. This would of course interrupt their sales.

Another option is:- http://www.greenemotor.com/htm/home.php

And there are Vectrix dealers in the SF Bay Area ...

Electric Motorsport is about to start selling their latest motorcycle creation.. did you look at that? What did you think of it?

findtheriver
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

Hi reikiman,

Thank you so much for the informative reply. This is very helpful.

Okay, so the EVT 168 at Electric Motorsports is made by EVT Taiwan. So it's not exactly the same as this one by EVT America?

http://www.evtamerica.com/168.htm

I've read several older posts about issues with EVT America scooters and got scared off. Thanks for the greenemotor link, I've never heard of this one. The Vectrix seems fantastic but way out of my price range.

I'm looking to spend about $3000- can I ask you which scooter you would buy in this range? It's so hard to review these scooters-- is there any sort of consensus on what's best? Reliabilty and durability are the most important factors for me. The Oxygen Lepton seemed interesting as various accounts said they were the best on hills, but I don't know if they're even being sold anymore.

As for the latest Electric Motorsports creation, there were a couple that were more like motorcycles that looked great. Too pricey ($8k) and more bike than I need right now, but nice.

Any further information would be appreciated.

MXC2000
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

I'm looking to spend about $3000- can I ask you which scooter you would buy in this range? It's so hard to review these scooters-- is there any sort of consensus on what's best? Reliabilty and durability are the most important factors for me. The Oxygen Lepton seemed interesting as various accounts said they were the best on hills, but I don't know if they're even being sold anymore.

If you are interested in a Lepton there is one on e-bay for a lot less than $3,000 it appear to be in very good shape

findtheriver
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

Thanks for the tip, MXC2000. I'm reluctant to buy a Lepton if Oxygen is on the way out. Do you know if Oxygen is still in business?

rdudley
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

You might also try Green Rides (www.greenrides.com) in Campbell. I am going to be getting an EVT trike from them very soon. Last time I was at their place (2 weeks ago) they had a couple of EVT 4000e and an EVT 168. Since then they have sold them and they are now expecting another shipment within the next few days. I suppose at the same time that my trike is supposed to arrive. I think the price on the 4000e is about $2500, but I'm not sure.

Rick

MXC2000
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

Looking at their web site , I would believe that they be the last scooter manufacturer standing after all the dust settle

http://www.oxygenworld.it/en/1/welcome-to-oxygenworld

findtheriver
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the reply. Greenrides looks like a place worth visiting.

Do you know if their scooters are EVT America or the other EVT? I'm wondering if there's any difference in quality.

Any thoughts on how the EVTs stack up against the Zap! Zapino or the Extreme scooters?

findtheriver
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

I appreciate the link, MXC2000. They show only one model-- the Cargoscooter-- on their website. Does anyone know if they've discontinued other models? Are Leptons available??

reikiman
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the reply. Greenrides looks like a place worth visiting.

Do you know if their scooters are EVT America or the other EVT? I'm wondering if there's any difference in quality.

Any thoughts on how the EVTs stack up against the Zap! Zapino or the Extreme scooters?

The EVT 168 is EVT Taiwan ...

Much as it's hard for me to say this .. several people on this site have reported excellent things about the Zapino. I haven't seen one in person but it appears that it's a high quality bike. The XM-3000/3500 may be good, but they're just starting to get into peoples hands. There's also this crappy issue in that Xtreme think's it's okay to deliver damaged goods and then make their customers fix the damage. I'm really astonished they think this is a good idea. The bikes may be good quality, but if the customers first experience is "It got damaged during shipping and now I have to file service tickets and do repairs" that's not a good story.

findtheriver
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

Hi David,

Thanks for the clarification on the EVT.

I test drove the Zapino at GreenMotors in Berkeley and was impressed. Zippy acceleration, smooth ride, solid build quality. A bit more than I was looking to spend-- $3,495 + tax + $150 shipping-- but it's tempting. Then I start thinking, if I'm going to spend that much, maybe it's better to get one with Li-Ion batteries like the XM-3500.....

Regarding the issues with Xtreme, I agree that it's a horrible way to do business. I'd be very upset if I received a damaged scooter and would be inclined to return it instead of dealing with repairs (although I imagine the refund process would be a nightmare as well-- they really put you in a bad spot with such customer "service").

I appreciate the feedback.

jdh2550_1
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

There's also this crappy issue in that Xtreme think's it's okay to deliver damaged goods and then make their customers fix the damage. I'm really astonished they think this is a good idea. The bikes may be good quality, but if the customers first experience is "It got damaged during shipping and now I have to file service tickets and do repairs" that's not a good story.

Hi,

Let's be clear on this - there are a fair number of X-Treme XM-3000's bikes that were delivered with shipping damage. There are also a fair number that arrive undamaged. This is because you the customer are the first person to see the bike since it left the factory in China. This direct ship model saves you money, in exchange for that savings you take on the responsibility for the "pre-delivery inspection" (in fact it becomes the post delivery inspection). You would normally pay a dealer to do the PDI (some explicitly state that charge, some "waive it" but then you pay more for the product). Of course, it's a better experience when someone else does the PDI and when you receive the bike it's ready to ride. However, expect to pay more for this service - in fact, if folks have that option I recommend they buy from a dealer.

However, if the customer wants to save money or simply doesn't have the luxury of having a dealer close by then the direct ship model is reasonable. As someone who sells these bikes I try and make that clear to my customers - you don't get something for nothing. You get the better price because you agree to do more work. So, I'd say that if the customer is "surprised" by this then it's the person through who they bought the bike that needs to do a better job of setting expectations.

I'm only talking about shipping damage. Non-functioning parts are a different story - but, thankfully, there's a much, much lower occurrence of defective parts.

Sure, trying to sell a direct ship model as if it's as good as bricks and mortar dealer service is a bad idea***. However, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - there is a place for direct ship. AS LONG AS THE CUSTOMER IS AWARE OF THE TRADE OFFS.

(*** In fact, that's one of the reasons I'm in negotiations to open a bricks and mortar store)

I've got quite a few satisfied customers out there riding around on XM-3000's. I've also got at least one customer who's a "tad pissed off". I'll be working with that customer to try and find a good resolution. There are a couple of other customers who have had less than stellar experiences (one too damaged to accept and another with a dead controller). However, the majority of folks are happy.

Sorry if this sounds like an infomercial. Of course, I'm biased, but I also hope that I'm honest / transparent in my dealings.

You might want to consider an XM-3000 or an XM-3500Li. As a customer you're already doing the right thing - you're doing your homework!

Good luck with whatever bike you chose.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

findtheriver
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

Hi John,

Thanks for sharing your perspective and insight. As a prospective customer, here are my thoughts, and if the shipping issue has been resolved by now and the problems are all in the past, please disregard everything that follows. Also, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to pick a fight. I'm really just trying to understand the process.

Shipping does not seem to be rocket science. There's the packaging and packing, the handling on both ends, and the transit stage.

If a company is having chronic issues, it would seem that the problem is due one of more of the following:

1. The way it's built. This is the company's responsibility.

2. The way it's packed. This is the company's responsibility.

3. The way it's shipped. This is the company's responsibility insofar as they've chosen the shipper.

I think it's kind of a cop-out to say that the buyer should bear the cost of a damaged shipment because:

A. If the damage is due to either #1 or #2 above, that's the company's responsibility.

B. If it's due to #3, the company has the responsibility to change shippers. I imagine there's no shortage of shipping competition in China.

C. What about insurance? I can't believe that everything in the world except scooters can be insured. Given the choice between paying for insurance or gambling on a getting a defective scooter, I bet most would opt for insurance.

Just my two cents. And thanks for the well wishes. The XM-3500Li seems like it's got everything I'm looking for and I look forward to the reviews when it arrives.

Alias
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

jdh2550_1

Hi John,

I am curious if your products have warrenties on them, and if you're customers
also purchase the warrenties. Would this include cosmetic damage etc from shipping as part of the warrenty????

If you do not purchase warrenties from any company such as a scooter company etc, Unfortunately
(not to get on anyone's bad side)technically you would end up paying extra to fix your own product that got damaged during shipping.

jdh2550_1
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

I think it's kind of a cop-out to say that the buyer should bear the cost of a damaged shipment

Sorry I should have been more clear - the buyer doesn't bear the cost of a damaged shipment - X-Treme supplies replacement parts under warranty. I've not heard anyone complain that X-Treme have quibbled over providing the parts (some folks had to wait because of back order issues). However, the buyer does "bear the cost" of fitting those parts - however, that's usually something the customer can do themselves for no real cost. The only time when X-Treme might pause before sending parts is when the request comes a while after the bike has been delivered - customers do try and take advantage of the warranty to say a part was damaged during shipment when it was caused by their own mishandling (there are even stories of pictures being sent in where there's mud or grass on the broken part!)

I agree that packaging isn't rocket science - however, as an example of unexpected consequences consider this: The XM-2000 (the predecessor) was packed in very sturdy cardboard, but there was shipping damage. Lots of folks on this forum said (most who hadn't received a bike) "oh boy, who would ship using cardboard!". It seems someone was listening, because this time around they come shipped with a sturdy metal frame. Unfortunately that frame shifted during shipping and ended up "sawing into" the frames. Oops. Yes, in hindsight it's easy to critique the packaging and say they should have done X, Y or Z. But not every "improvement" has the desired consequences. Personally I like the all cardboard packaging approach - it's easier for the end customer to dispose of and I think it's also a less resource intensive way to pack the bikes.

We'll see how the packaging design changes as the new shipments arrive.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

jdh2550_1
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

Would this include cosmetic damage etc from shipping as part of the warrenty????

Yes, shipping damage is covered under warranty. X-Treme supplies replacement parts, the customer fits them and discards the old, damaged parts.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

findtheriver
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

Thanks for the clarification John. I appreciate the inside scoop.

I'm glad to hear that X-Treme supplies the replacement parts without charge. That's only fair. I take slight exception to your comment about customers incurring "no real cost" in order to fit the parts, as time is valuable, and some people are less handy than others which can make "simple" repairs an ordeal. There's also the joy of dealing with customer service in another country, although perhaps email makes this less of a hassle.

Good point about unintended consequences; at least the company made efforts to resolve the issue, and hopefully there'll be improvements with the new shipments. And I'm right with you on using less resource intensive packaging, though to be honest I question whether that's a primary consideration for X-Treme (getting cynical in my old age).

Since you mentioned transparency earlier, I hope that X-Treme clearly and openly discloses their history of shipping issues, the parts replacement process, and the "deal" customers make vis-a-vis accepting responsibility for doing their own repairs in exchange for a lower price. I think that's only fair as well.

jdh2550_1
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Re: What's the story with EVT America?

I'm a dealer for X-Treme - I try and make it as transparent as I think is pragmatically possible. I can't speak for X-Treme or for other dealers. But I still do have to give customers the pros as well as the cons and I give the pros first!

Yes you old codger! You are being overly cynical - after all the resource they're saving is green colored paper with pictures of dead presidents on them ;-) (I prefer the packaging for ecological reasons - they prefer it because they save a buck)

Sure, your time is money is true - just as long as you remember to bill yourself while on the golf course too... ;-)

I don't disagree with the sentiment of any of what's posted - looking for a way to improve the new owners experience and the long term owners enjoyment. It's just that sometimes folks tend to over state their positions (as do I) to try and make a point. So, when someone I respect (like reikiman who is usually a paragon of even handedness) posts something that seems to miss the point of the drop ship model saving money - then I kind of feel "duty bound" to respond.

Not being able to keep my mouth shut or my opinions to myself is kind of a curse! ;-)

Anyway - it sounds like you've got access to dealers not too far from you - so, that may be the way to go. Good luck and be sure to tell us what electric wheels you end up with...

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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