Shutdown at speed

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Buzby
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Shutdown at speed

This has happened to me twice in the last week and is causing much distress. Has anyone had anything similar happen to them, or knows the cause?

I don't often ride of motorways (freeways) here, as the speed I have to maintain is wasteful on the battery range, but there was no choice on these two occasions, and they happened 5 days apart.

Without warning, and with the speedo showing 65-70 Kph, all driving power is lost. There is no warning sound, alert or instrumentation anomaly. 'GO' remains shoeing on the display, but when twisting the throttle, it isn't possible to maintain or increase speed - you are effectively freewheeling to a standstill (and not useful on a UK motorway!).

Pulling over to the emergency lane, I tried to have a controlled stop using regen braking, but this was not possible either - irrespective of the position of the throttle, I was simply coasting to a standstill.

Once stopped, all instrumentation remained fine, with no warning or alerts showing. Attempting to accelerate away achieved nothing. Turning the emergency off switch off and back on achieved nothing, except when off, the Speedo swung around (as it does normally anyway).

The anomaly was 'fixed' by turning OFF the VX1 ignition key to blank the displays, and turning it back on. After doing the brake lever initialisation, 'GO' illuminated, and it was possible to ride on, as before and rejoin the traffic flow.... until it happens again.

As noted earlier, this is now the second time this has happened, but before I mention it to Vectrix, have others experienced anything similar, what was the cause - and is there a cure?

tom5007
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Re: Shutdown at speed

This has happened to me twice in the last week and is causing much distress. Has anyone had anything similar happen to them, or knows the cause?

I don't often ride of motorways (freeways) here, as the speed I have to maintain is wasteful on the battery range, but there was no choice on these two occasions, and they happened 5 days apart.

Without warning, and with the speedo showing 65-70 Kph, all driving power is lost. There is no warning sound, alert or instrumentation anomaly. 'GO' remains shoeing on the display, but when twisting the throttle, it isn't possible to maintain or increase speed - you are effectively freewheeling to a standstill (and not useful on a UK motorway!).

Pulling over to the emergency lane, I tried to have a controlled stop using regen braking, but this was not possible either - irrespective of the position of the throttle, I was simply coasting to a standstill.

Once stopped, all instrumentation remained fine, with no warning or alerts showing. Attempting to accelerate away achieved nothing. Turning the emergency off switch off and back on achieved nothing, except when off, the Speedo swung around (as it does normally anyway).

The anomaly was 'fixed' by turning OFF the VX1 ignition key to blank the displays, and turning it back on. After doing the brake lever initialisation, 'GO' illuminated, and it was possible to ride on, as before and rejoin the traffic flow.... until it happens again.

As noted earlier, this is now the second time this has happened, but before I mention it to Vectrix, have others experienced anything similar, what was the cause - and is there a cure?
------------
- Raymond

Raymon,

this never happened to me (running Oct '08 firmware). You should call vectrix to check your bike. I guess they can trace the problem by checking the logfiles.

Norman

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Re: Shutdown at speed

I use motorways (freeways) all the time, at full speed and sometimes from full down to 3 bars the whole journey - never had a problem.

Only problem i have ever had is when the main fuse failed, but that was a total dead bike.

Buzby
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Re: Shutdown at speed

I should have added I'm running pre May 2008 firmware, have covered 2000 miles, and thie problem has only appeared this week - so I'm unconvinced it's a firmware issue.

- Raymond

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Re: Shutdown at speed

I have pre-October 2008 firmware and it has never happened to me even when I drive on highway at 100km/h from full battery to 4 bars left. It just drives.

There must be a glitch in yours. You should get that fixed.

Mik
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Re: Shutdown at speed

I've driven about 8000km, mostly at and above that sort of speed, on two Vectrixes, and this problem never occurred.

The problem is obviously not the fuse, because the instruments would not remain on and would never start again until after lengthy work.

But the effect is the same, you just don't need the tow-truck once you have made it out of traffic.

Sounds like Hazard Lights would have worked for you, if the switch was conveniently located. The last thing you'd want to do is let go of the handlebars whilst trying to get out of traffic without power.

My three main fuse failures were at very similar speed, always about 65km/h to 70km/h and little load. I wonder if there is maybe a connection.

At what speed did the main fuses of the other riders blow? Also around 65km/h?

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eyeinthesky
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Re: Shutdown at speed

wstand.jpg
Hi I am Peter from Tasmania Australia I have had this odd shutdown about a dozen times over 21,000 klms mostly at high speed,(2006 model continually graded) Technician indicated it was similar to the computer hanging/lockup, Without stopping I turn off the key and back of again, double quick brake actions and back in operations without serious lost of speed. Incidentally I blew a fuse some weeks back and as I had a spare one, replaced it...leaving the metal shield off the controller which means access to it in the future without removing the terminals and battery, Connecting the batteries together I was up and running in one and a half hours no special equipment needed.(no service techs in Tas) Riding terrain -/+ 1000ft 10% gradients 50%@80kph, 50%@60kph, Temp range 20degree, conditions 10% wet,muddy, 90% dry windey sealed roads. Typical range 40klms plus ten more at reduced speeds.two charges/24h, daily distance covered 70-100klm Modifications, switched brakes, removed one planetary gear, modified lube, sound proofed rear wheel, notched shield around blinkers Consumables, three rear tyres and two front, using gold standard Michelin, hasn't lost grip except...on grass where I dropped it three times on takeoff,
Happy riding guys,
Peter

Mik
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Re: Shutdown at speed

Incidentally I blew a fuse some weeks back and as I had a spare one, replaced it. the controller which means access to it in the future without removing the terminals and battery, Connecting the batteries together I was up and running in one and a half hours no special equipment needed.(no service techs in Tas) Riding terrain -/+ 1000ft 10% gradients 50%@80kph, 50%@60kph, Temp range 20degree, conditions 10% wet,muddy, 90% dry windey sealed roads. Typical range 40klms plus ten more at reduced speeds.two charges/24h, daily distance covered 70-100klm Modifications, switched brakes, removed one planetary gear, modified lube, sound proofed rear wheel, notched shield around blinkers Consumables, three rear tyres and two front, using gold standard Michelin, hasn't lost grip except...on grass where I dropped it three times on takeoff,
Happy riding guys,
Peter

How many km have you done with just 2 planetary gears? Have you had another close look in case it damages the gears or the bearings?

What helps more against the noise: The removal of one gear or that "silencer" you put on it?

I'd recommend the use of an inrush current limiter for battery reconnection.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

eyeinthesky
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Re: Shutdown at speed

8000ks on two gears,
will check at 10,000 ks
my bike doesnt mind the power rush at connection ;-)
Pete
....wheres my picture??

RaDy
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Re: Shutdown at speed

Modifications, switched brakes, removed one planetary gear, modified lube, sound proofed rear wheel, notched shield around blinkers Consumables, three rear tyres and two front, using gold standard Michelin, hasn't lost grip except...on grass where I dropped it three times on takeoff,
Happy riding guys,
Peter

Can you explain how to switch brakes? I am really intrested in doing this.
Thanks

Mik
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Re: Shutdown at speed
Modifications, switched brakes, removed one planetary gear, modified lube, sound proofed rear wheel, notched shield around blinkers Consumables, three rear tyres and two front, using gold standard Michelin, hasn't lost grip except...on grass where I dropped it three times on takeoff,
Happy riding guys,
Peter

Can you explain how to switch brakes? I am really intrested in doing this.
Thanks

It refers to switching the connections between the brake levers and the brake calipers so that the rear brake gets activated by the right hand and the front brake by the left hand. Ok, you knew that already....but now you know that it can be , and has been done by several people. (Not be me yet).

It has been covered in some detail on VisforVoltage, search for appropriate terms and you'll find lots of useful information.

This could be a nice project for someone: to document how to do it, with high quality pictures and video etc!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

chas_stevenson
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Re: Shutdown at speed

Pete,

Your picture does not show up because it was not uploaded to you file area. Try uploading the picture and it should appear.

Chas S.

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Re: Shutdown at speed

I knew what it meant and that it could be done, but no one has specified anything.
I also have a question for those who have done it:
Does the combination of getting the "GO" , swap with the change??

MOSFETmeltdown
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Re: Shutdown at speed

Does the combination of getting the "GO" , swap with the change??

No, it is still Left first and then Right lever pulls (you only swap the hydraulic brake hoses over, not the whole brake mech.)

eyeinthesky
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Re: Shutdown at speed

flying_v_0.jpg
ET...... "electric Transport"

Buzby
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Re: Shutdown at speed

Back on topic....!

I've now used the same strech of motorway and had at total of 4 shutdows, each kicking in at around 70-75 Kph. There's no aparrent trigger apart from trhe speed itself, no harsh accelleration or other notable feature.

As previously advised, the soltion is to kill the ignition, turn it back on, initialise the start-uo (to get the 'GO') and the bike carries on without incident.... or in my case, until the next loss of power indicating another shutdown.

Because of the time taken to realise your power source has dried up, it can take up to 25 secods of hancy handiwork to get back to a powered riding position, moving out of the main traffic flow (to the emergency lane) remains a requirement, as I've been travelling as slow as 30kph whilst arranging for the power to be restored, you don;t want to muck about doing this in the main traffic flow.

Again, once OFF the motorway and travelling at a more sedate 59-60kph, the Vectrix performs exacly normally, so this will be on the 'to do' list for the tech at the next service. However, I'm unclear whether the VX1 will actually log this shutdown so that it can be identifed later, as there is no instrumentation tell-tale that confirms this has actually happened.

More on this when I have it!

- Raymond

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Re: Shutdown at speed

I'm betting its a computer glitch, and that a reinstallation of the latest software (firmware, whatever) will fix it. It just has a hiccup and needs burping.

Buzby
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Re: Shutdown at speed

I'm sure you're right - but strangely there's been no change to the current firmware since supply, which is why I'm surprised I've only spotted this now.... still we'll see what happens after the first update, and I'll give motorways a miss in the meantime!

- Raymond

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Re: Shutdown at speed

I'm sure you're right - but strangely there's been no change to the current firmware since supply, which is why I'm surprised I've only spotted this now.... still we'll see what happens after the first update, and I'll give motorways a miss in the meantime!

Thinking about your problem I remember that I had a metallic "clong" noise for some time on my Vectrix. It appeared at potholes and seemed to come directly form the rear suspension. After some investigation it turned out to be a missing piece of rubber between the middle stand and the bike frame. Why am I saying this here as there seem to be no correlation. BUT, there might be. The clong noise was produced by the middle stand. With other words, the middle stand is only held up by a pair of springs and therefore moves up and down a bit when on the road. Perhaps you have a "special" bike and when going fast your mid stand/ side stand switch is activated due to the vibrations/wind from the motorway. When the side/mid stand is acticvated the bike automatically goes to idle mode which seem to be the case with your bike.

Norman

Mik
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Re: Shutdown at speed

Perhaps you have a "special" bike and when going fast your mid stand/ side stand switch is activated due to the vibrations/wind from the motorway. When the side/mid stand is acticvated the bike automatically goes to idle mode which seem to be the case with your bike.

Norman

Excellent idea!

You can add a rubber strap to keep the side stand up firmly, (I had one on there for weeks when I was still in the unfortunate situation of having to wait for service and repairs.)

The try it out again when there is little traffic.....

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

moccasin
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Re: Shutdown at speed

Perhaps you have a "special" bike and when going fast your mid stand/ side stand switch is activated due to the vibrations/wind from the motorway. When the side/mid stand is acticvated the bike automatically goes to idle mode which seem to be the case with your bike.

If that were the case, he would only need to reset the brake levers to make the bike operational again. Tripping the sidestand or centerstand kill switch would not require turning the key off and on again before going back online.

tom5007
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Re: Shutdown at speed
Perhaps you have a "special" bike and when going fast your mid stand/ side stand switch is activated due to the vibrations/wind from the motorway. When the side/mid stand is acticvated the bike automatically goes to idle mode which seem to be the case with your bike.

If that were the case, he would only need to reset the brake levers to make the bike operational again. Tripping the sidestand or centerstand kill switch would not require turning the key off and on again before going back online.

I would still give it a try. Perhaps the software requires the bike to be at standstill when the sidestand is down. In case the stands goes down at speed there might be a different behaviour.

Norman

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Re: Shutdown at speed
If that were the case, he would only need to reset the brake levers to make the bike operational again. Tripping the sidestand or centerstand kill switch would not require turning the key off and on again before going back online.

I would still give it a try. Perhaps the software requires the bike to be at standstill when the sidestand is down. In case the stands goes down at speed there might be a different behaviour.

Norman

Played with my stand this morning, It has to be almost all the way down to kill the ignition. Seems highly unlikely that any bump would cause it to drop that far. I'll push it down under power on my way home for lunch and see if the behavior is any different.

moccasin
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Re: Shutdown at speed

Ok. Tested this afternoon on the way home. Deploying the sidestand under power does NOT necessitate cycling the ignition switch. It only forces you to do the brake lever sequence to put the bike back under power. My stand is at least half way to the pavement before it kicks the power off.

Buzby
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Re: Shutdown at speed

There appears to be no initiator of the power 'kill' - I only have a side stand (still waiting for the centre stand, now nearly a YEAR!) but in this case there would be the yellow warning stand light - even briefly - to show activation. Also because this is only happening on motorways, the road surface (if anything) is considerably better than average and smoother than you could imagine.

My next trick is to see if I can restore power to the motor without resetting via the Keyswitch. I had forgotten that as well as the key, they emergency cut-off (Big Red Switch) also cycles the 'Go' indicator. This is preferable to turning the key as it ceases being captive in the OFF position, and with gloves I almost dropped them as the key-fob almost assisted in pulling them from the unit.

- Raymond

Mik
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Re: Shutdown at speed

There appears to be no initiator of the power 'kill'

Does it happen whilst you are acceleration, cruising, decelerating or any odd time?

If it only happens whilst accelerating, or holding 75km/h on an uphill road, then it is likely related to some safety cutoff concerned about the maximum current draw.

At 75km/h (or at least quite close to that speed) the Vectrix draws maximum amps (with an early 2008 software version).

If your stretch of highway is safe = empty enough to do this, then you could try the following approach to get you through until someone works out how to properly fix the problem:

Accelerate gently through the 60km/h to 85km/h speed band. After that, even full throttle will draw less amps than at 75km/h.

You might be able to use the highway that way if you have to.

Better to get it fixed, though!

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

AndY1
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Re: Shutdown at speed

Why would full throttle draw less amps than at 75km/h?

antiscab
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Re: Shutdown at speed

at higher speed the motor back emf is higher.
if its close to the pack voltage, then max current is reduced.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
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Buzby
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Re: Shutdown at speed

The first time it happened I was accelerating into a space within the flow - so I assumed it was a failure due to excessive amperage being drawn, but the other times I was coasting with no acceleration, and the most recent within 10 seconds of an earlier restart, where I was slowly increasing speed back up to 64kph when it tripped again. So - it's not load extremes caused by speed or hill/wind load that is causing the problem (AFAICT).

- Raymond

kevin smith
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Re: Shutdown at speed

hey i might have it just thinking..
it may be a micro switch ?? or it sounds simple what you need to do is check the side stand and see how the switch system works off the side stand
it could of just moved and therefore cutting out .i had simlar probblem on my old peought car with the foot breaking system and the swith moover with the pasangers feet so makes the break
light keep on was a simple fix good luck ?? by any chance have you been jumping fences on the vectrix ?? ;)
have fun kev.

moccasin
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Re: Shutdown at speed

I don't think it is a switch at all (unless it's the key switch itself losing contact). I think you either have a problem with the controller board or the soft/firmware. Properly running bikes do not behave that way, and you can't kill one just by twisting the throttle too much because the controller handles the demand anyway.

Your bike is under warranty. When they plug in the diagnostic computer, it will likely reveal a log file that shows the problem and the cause, and they will fix it. But if they tell you what it was, please come back and let us know!

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