Re: Police in Chandler,AZ trying classify my XB-500 as a ...
Before I left Ohio, which calls the XB-500 a bicycle, to move to Michigan I went round and round with the Secretary of State about this bike. I finally hired a lawyer from Michigan to look into the law. After a week, and $50 later, the XB-500 in Michigan is a moped. I have to pay $5 per year for a moped sticker and I had to show my receipt of purchase (good thing I kept the emails from www.x-tremescooters.com) to get an official state registration form.
I discovered each State does its own thing and sadly the "federal law supercedes state laws" is only used when defining the item as a bike. (Thank Congress of 2002, my understanding it was they who watered down the Consumer Law). No one thought these bikes would catch on - and no one expected anyone would actually make an electric car either. I love my electric bicycle, now moped, and now lawmakers are changing the rules. It stinks, but each State is now allowed to make their own definitions - however, the good news - the form you quoted insures they won't require additional equipment or faster speed.
For a list of States and what they require you should visit wikipedia.org look up electric bikes. PA is on the list - all bikes powered other than by human power is a moped (I'd love to see a wind-powered moped). I agree, the law is stupid, but there is nothing that prohibits a State from doing their own thing, good and/or bad.
Re: Police in Chandler,AZ trying classify my XB-500 as a ...
There was actually a reason the law deferred to states the power to regulate usage and licensing.. if the federal law set usage on a federal level, it would have set a precedent for a national drivers license. At the time, nobody was ready for that proposal. Times have changed, maybe its time for a federal bicycle law, with subsections for electric vehicles. On the other hand, if this law is revisited, could you imagine them restating the safety requirements? All of a sudden, the inferior builds could be banned. Working the federal angle is dangerous though, they could just wind up banning the whole lot as dangerous in today's high speed traffic in school zones.
This round may be lost, but to win the fight, get together with other advocacy groups, organize, and educate the lawmakers in your state, be vocal, be in the news, and be well organized, grammatically correct, and well spoken when presenting the issue. Get local vendors involved as well. Knowing that tax dollars can be made may help open greedy ears.
Re: Police in Chandler,AZ trying classify my XB-500 as a ...
I have an xb-600. I work in a university town in PA. I've been stopped twice. First, last summer, by a town policeman outside my home. Asked why I didn;'t have a license plate. I explained the law. He scratched his head and said he would take my word for it and sent me on my way. Although the event was somewhat embarrasing as it happened in my neighborhood with the polic car lights flasshing.
Yesterday, I was stopped by a University cop on a bicycle. I was traveling on a Universtiy designated bike path. I went thru the whole explanation, however, he said he had "studied law" and the state law superseded the federal law (for which I don't agree). I also explained that I am more courteous then the "bicycles" on campus because I stay off sidewalks and follow the flow of vehicle traffic, as opposed to the bicycles that weave in and out of stopped traffic.
I had recently removed my pedals and chain (to pick up a few mph ... and because the pedals are designed so they are worthless if you try pedalling). The officer noticed that I didn't have pedals and commented that because of that it wasn't functional.
I finally said, so "where do we go from here"... he smiled and said "just be safe" .. and sent me on my way.
So I think until or if this mode of transport becomes more visible, we'll be stuck with these random pullovers (I generally try to keep off the main streets and take the side streets from home to work at the university.
I think i might also put my pedals back on to give some appearance that it is a bicycle.
I'll also note that I do have it registered as a bicycle with the University and for which covers me for the city as well. One of the key reasons i chose this bike was because I could register it as a bicycle avoiding having to register it with the state and also avoiding having to pay parking at the university. Plus the convenience of being able to park it at the bike racks. After reading some of the other threads on this topic, I'm now confused if I'm legal in PA or not?
However, I'm a rebel and i think if i continue to drive it responsibly and not raise attention... I'll hopefully continue to slide under the radar.
I'd also be interested in hearing more experiences from others.
Re: Police in Chandler,AZ trying classify my XB-500 as a ...
How can we as American citizens make a clear cut law for all 50 states about two and three wheeled low speed electrics? So any one can drive on our streets with out fear of getting pulled over by the Gestapo. I just put on a rather large trunk on my scooter and now it looks like a big Vespa and needless to say a few cops have rode behind me "I guess to monitor top speed" and go down the street and bang a U-ey. I carry 727 in my wallet and under seat too. It sure helps having a extreme toyz in my town to help in the fact "no license" required.
Re: Police in Chandler,AZ trying classify my XB-500 as a ...
most places recommend carrying "727" on your bike, but since it defers licensing to state level, carry a copy of your state's laws as well, nothing like being fully prepared to answer questions.
Before I left Ohio, which calls the XB-500 a bicycle, to move to Michigan I went round and round with the Secretary of State about this bike. I finally hired a lawyer from Michigan to look into the law. After a week, and $50 later, the XB-500 in Michigan is a moped. I have to pay $5 per year for a moped sticker and I had to show my receipt of purchase (good thing I kept the emails from www.x-tremescooters.com) to get an official state registration form.
I discovered each State does its own thing and sadly the "federal law supercedes state laws" is only used when defining the item as a bike. (Thank Congress of 2002, my understanding it was they who watered down the Consumer Law). No one thought these bikes would catch on - and no one expected anyone would actually make an electric car either. I love my electric bicycle, now moped, and now lawmakers are changing the rules. It stinks, but each State is now allowed to make their own definitions - however, the good news - the form you quoted insures they won't require additional equipment or faster speed.
For a list of States and what they require you should visit wikipedia.org look up electric bikes. PA is on the list - all bikes powered other than by human power is a moped (I'd love to see a wind-powered moped). I agree, the law is stupid, but there is nothing that prohibits a State from doing their own thing, good and/or bad.
There was actually a reason the law deferred to states the power to regulate usage and licensing.. if the federal law set usage on a federal level, it would have set a precedent for a national drivers license. At the time, nobody was ready for that proposal. Times have changed, maybe its time for a federal bicycle law, with subsections for electric vehicles. On the other hand, if this law is revisited, could you imagine them restating the safety requirements? All of a sudden, the inferior builds could be banned. Working the federal angle is dangerous though, they could just wind up banning the whole lot as dangerous in today's high speed traffic in school zones.
This round may be lost, but to win the fight, get together with other advocacy groups, organize, and educate the lawmakers in your state, be vocal, be in the news, and be well organized, grammatically correct, and well spoken when presenting the issue. Get local vendors involved as well. Knowing that tax dollars can be made may help open greedy ears.
I have an xb-600. I work in a university town in PA. I've been stopped twice. First, last summer, by a town policeman outside my home. Asked why I didn;'t have a license plate. I explained the law. He scratched his head and said he would take my word for it and sent me on my way. Although the event was somewhat embarrasing as it happened in my neighborhood with the polic car lights flasshing.
Yesterday, I was stopped by a University cop on a bicycle. I was traveling on a Universtiy designated bike path. I went thru the whole explanation, however, he said he had "studied law" and the state law superseded the federal law (for which I don't agree). I also explained that I am more courteous then the "bicycles" on campus because I stay off sidewalks and follow the flow of vehicle traffic, as opposed to the bicycles that weave in and out of stopped traffic.
I had recently removed my pedals and chain (to pick up a few mph ... and because the pedals are designed so they are worthless if you try pedalling). The officer noticed that I didn't have pedals and commented that because of that it wasn't functional.
I finally said, so "where do we go from here"... he smiled and said "just be safe" .. and sent me on my way.
So I think until or if this mode of transport becomes more visible, we'll be stuck with these random pullovers (I generally try to keep off the main streets and take the side streets from home to work at the university.
I think i might also put my pedals back on to give some appearance that it is a bicycle.
I'll also note that I do have it registered as a bicycle with the University and for which covers me for the city as well. One of the key reasons i chose this bike was because I could register it as a bicycle avoiding having to register it with the state and also avoiding having to pay parking at the university. Plus the convenience of being able to park it at the bike racks. After reading some of the other threads on this topic, I'm now confused if I'm legal in PA or not?
However, I'm a rebel and i think if i continue to drive it responsibly and not raise attention... I'll hopefully continue to slide under the radar.
I'd also be interested in hearing more experiences from others.
-Richard
Hi Dave,
I'm from PA and just posted my recent experiences with the police in state college.
I'm curios if you've had any updates on your "challenge" of your citation as described in this post?
regards,
-Richard
How can we as American citizens make a clear cut law for all 50 states about two and three wheeled low speed electrics? So any one can drive on our streets with out fear of getting pulled over by the Gestapo. I just put on a rather large trunk on my scooter and now it looks like a big Vespa and needless to say a few cops have rode behind me "I guess to monitor top speed" and go down the street and bang a U-ey. I carry 727 in my wallet and under seat too. It sure helps having a extreme toyz in my town to help in the fact "no license" required.
KB1UKU
most places recommend carrying "727" on your bike, but since it defers licensing to state level, carry a copy of your state's laws as well, nothing like being fully prepared to answer questions.
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