New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

60 posts / 0 new
Last post
Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

All those other numbers I sent (like the 4.3V) you were with it set to "5". Also, the scooter did NOT activate when I bridged the orange to black with the meter set to "25". Only when I set it to "5" did it turn on.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Right, so now my issue seems to be reading the meter and what setting on it I should be using.

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Thanks for the pic. I had to grin. All my assumptions were that you were working with a "digital" meter. Never crossed my mind that it was analog. No worries, we can still use that, but DigitalMultiMeters are readily available and dirt cheap for one that would be "good enough" for electric scooters. (Christmas is coming soon) Harbor Freight sells one for about $5 that will measure Volts, Amps, and Ohms, and also gives you negative numbers for reversed polarity. But, back to your meter:

Reading on the "25" line, your pic shows a value of 14V, so that seems right for a fully charged 12volt battery at rest.

On the "5" line, each tick mark equals 0.1V
On the "10" line, each mark equals 0.2V
On the "25" line, each mark equals 0.5V
On the "125" line, each mark equals 2.5V

Where you have it set will depend on the "expected" value you think you'll get. For example, if you are going to check a fully-charged, 24V pack, you should expect it to be greater than 25V, so you would set your meter to "125". If it was set at "25", and the batteries were 28V, it would either "peg" the meter, or probably display zero (which may be the reason you got so many 0V value readings when you had it set to "5").

I'd start each test with a setting of "125", and move the setting lower until you get a good reading or are satisfied that there is no voltage at all.

Hope this is clear.

Now, let's see if we can get some good data...

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Oh, I see. The setting on the dial does not dictate which line to read - thus you are reading the third line (the "25" line) even though the dial is set to the second range (which happens to be 25 also). OK, will take some readings. Why does the scooter activate only when the meter is set to "5" and not the other settings when I bridge black and orange?

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Don't get confused by "third line" and "second range". Just read the line on the meter that corresponds to the setting.

I can't give you an exact technical answer to your last question. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the internals of the meter. Don't be concerned with it. But, that's the reason I suggested you have the drive wheel off the ground when testing.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

OK, I think I got it. 21 combos of reading from the controller. The first colour listed is touching black probe, the second is the one the red probe is touching.
Black- Brown = 0
Black - Red= 4.3
Black - Orange= 24.5
Black - Yellow, Green, or Blue = all 0
Brown - Red = 5
Brown-Orange = 25
Brown - Yellow, Red, or Blue= all 0
Red - Orange = 24
Red- Yellow, Green, or Blue = all 0
Orange - Yellow, Green or Blue = all 0
Yellow - Green or Blue = all 0
Green - Blue = 0

Does that sound right?

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

And yes, I should have gotten a digital meter - Wish I had a Harbor Freight near me!

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

We're getting closer.

You have:
Brown - Red = 5
two lines down, you have
Brown - Yellow, Red, or Blue= all 0 (that's a conflict)

Also, no value listed for Brown - Green (I bet it's 0)

Please measure the total pack voltage, too. (On the battery-to-controller plug)

And one more test: Jump from the red to the brown and see if the motor comes on full. If not, try red to BOTH Brown and Black at the same time.

I'm pretty certain the orange is "full" or "Power-on" to the LED's. The Blue, Green, and Yellow will probably have voltages as the total pack voltage decreases toward 21V. We can check that later by gradually discharging the pack and re-testing.

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

And yes, I should have gotten a digital meter - Wish I had a Harbor Freight near me!

Other sources for DMM's are auto parts stores, Radio Shack, maybe Home Depot or Lowes. You can always order one online, too.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Oops. You are right. Brown to Red is 5
Brown to Green, Blue, and Yellow are all 0

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Sorry, how do I measure the total pack voltage again?

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Sorry, how do I measure the total pack voltage again?

Disconnect the battery-to-controller plug and touch the probes of your meter to the two contacts in the plug on the battery side. You should see 24(+) volts.

Reconnect that plug and then jump the red to brown on the throttle plug of the controller. If no motor spin, jump red to both black and brown together.

I'll be offline for a couple hours. I'll be back later.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Red (from controller) to brown or Red to brown and black causes nothing to happen.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

There is no way to disconnect the leads from the controller. The black and red leads come directly out of it and go straight to the battery and power switch so the only disconnect I can do is from the battery and the power switch end.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

OK, well if I measure the batteries in series (disconnected from the controller on one end and the power switch on the other, I get 25 volts.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

OK, well if I jump the red to black on the CONTROLLER end, I get the scooter coming on. Red to black or Red to Black and Brown on the Throttle end = nothing.

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

OK, well if I measure the batteries in series (disconnected from the controller on one end and the power switch on the other, I get 25 volts.

You didn't need to disconnect it from the controller. If the metal terminals were exposed in any way, you could have just touched the probes to that and it would give you the correct reading. So you have total pack voltage of 25V. (which is basically what the orange wire is also telling the LED on the handlebar)

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

OK, well if I jump the red to black on the CONTROLLER end, I get the scooter coming on. Red to black or Red to Black and Brown on the Throttle end = nothing.

I wanted you to do this ONLY on the contoller plug (where you did the 21 combination testing with your voltmeter).

With the throttle plug completely disconnected and out of the way, use your jumper wire to go from red to brown on the CONTROLLER plug. What happens?

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Nothing. Only red to black activates the scooter.

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

And you had 5V between red and brown, but connecting them together does nothing?

If this were my scooter, I'd start shopping for a controller and compatible throttle.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

When you say "had 5v between red and brown" do you mean a simple wire running from red to brown (and that the voltage coming from the red was 5V)?

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Oops. You are right. Brown to Red is 5
Brown to Green, Blue, and Yellow are all 0

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Oh, I see. You have been able to tell with all these tests that BOTH the throttle and the controller are bad. Would one of these controllers work?
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/speedcontrollers.html#

It looks like there are numerous ones to chose from. I assume I just have to find one that has similar connections to what my scooter has and find a compatible throttle.
BTW, you have been of enormous help!

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Choose one that is 24V and equal or greater watts than your existing motor. Most will have plugs for the battery, motor, throttle, maybe a brake inhibit, and perhaps charger, lock, pilot light, and maybe even brake lights. You won't need to use all of the wires on your new controller. It will most likely have a three wire throttle plug that will plug directly into any three-wire throttle. You may have to buy matching plugs for the motor and battery. So when you get to that point, you will need to be able to cut, strip and re-terminate some of your existing wiring.

TNC has the cheapest prices. Controllers are a non-returnable item, so be sure of what you are buying and connect it properly the first time.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

I see. Something like this would work I imagine. http://www.tncscooters.com/JC-116.php
I guess I have to make sure my charger works for it as well.
You have been of enormous help and saved me a lot of money and time schlepping it to a place that services these things!
Thanks again!

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

I don't know anything about that brand, nor have I seen anyone post about it. Yi-Yun is popular and I have a LB-37 running at 48V on my overvolted Schwinn 600 (36V motor). I like it enough to have purchased a spare.

This may be a good one for 24V:

http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101166

The charger is a different matter all together. Does your Pacelite charge thru the controller? What does the end of your charger plug look like?

I am NOT a fan of series chargers. I have 7 scooters, most of which I have bought for $70-$80 from Craigslist. Usually, they only need batteries and people don't want to spend the $100(+) to buy new ones. The best deal I ever got was a very slightly used Schwinn S750 36V that really only needed one battery and I replaced the bad one with a used one I had removed from another used scooter. Everything else worked perfectly, and I've been running it almost daily (weather permitting) for over a year with no problems.

I have a box full of 24V and 36V chargers that I will never use. I have re-wired my scooters to run in series (24V, 36V, 48V) and by simply removing one plug and connecting another, I can charge them in parallel with a regular 12V automotive type charger. It's easy and foolproof once it's wired.

Before I made that change, I was destroying batteries with the stock series chargers. Most packs were lasting only a matter of months with new batteries, and like I said, I'm now using old salvaged batteries and they stay balanced and last a lot longer.

You can make that choice whenever (or if-ever) you want. If you stay with the series charger (24V), how does it attach to your scooter? Is there a port somewhere? Can you trace the wires to see if it currently goes into your controller, or directly to your battery pack?

BTW, finding anyone willing to work on these at any price would certainly have been a challenge. You're much better off giving it a go on your own. These forums are here to help. Try to ask specific questions and we'll do our best to help. Clear, sharp, close-up photos are extremely beneficial. Good luck.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

IMG_0412.JPG

Here is the charger tip. I traced the wire from it -and it connects via a three wire connector directly to the controller. How do you charge the scooter in parallel if you have it wired in series? I assume you take the batteries out and charge them independently?
BTW, I live in NYC and have had several scooters, the last one a Goped ESR 750 sport that I finally ditched when I had to replace the control board (literally a huge, fragile circuit board) three times for 200 bucks a pop! It was a great scooter but could not handle the bumps in the city.
I got this one because it looked light (for how big it is) and has full suspension. Too bad they don't make them any more. At least it looks like I can find a replacement controller and throttle for it for a lot less than I was spending on my Goped.
Here is another question. If I want to get higher speed out of it, I know I need a smaller front sprocket or a larger rear sprocket (like in cars which are more my thing). My scooter is belt driven and I don't see that many made for it unfortunately. Any ideas once I get it running to get more speed out of it? I don't need blistering acceleration but ideally would have it run about 20mph like my Goped did.

e-doggies
e-doggies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:15
Points: 280
Re: New Pacelite HCF 707 Throttle problem.

Your charger plug is what's known as an XLR plug, and is very common.

Use the search function on this site and look for "parallel charging" and you will find quite a bit of information about it. It was talked about a lot a year or two ago.

Here's a link to a good thread: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3166-seriesparallel-switching-charge-parallel-part-2-simplified

No, you don't have to take the batteries out. Once you have it re-wired, it takes only seconds to unplug the series connection and reconnect the parallel plug to charge all the batteries together like one big 12V battery.

I don't think they sold enough of the Pacelites to stay in business. Too bad. They were very well built, but also had a pretty steep price, although less than a GoPed I think. The belt drive is one big reason I stayed away from buying one. It's bound to be much more quiet than a chain, but gear ratio changes are extremely limited unless you have some sprockets custom made.

To get more speed, you would need to change the gear ratio to a LARGER front (motor) sprocket, or a SMALLER rear (wheel) sprocket. When you do that, torque and acceleration will decrease and there is a limit to how much you can get from your stock motor at 24V. Since you are going to replace your controller, consider upgrading to 36V and add a third battery of the same size as what you already have. Your existing motor should be able to handle the increased voltage and it would increase your speed without having to look for different sprockets and a different length of belt. Of course, you could also replace your stock motor with one of higher wattage. Perhaps the bigger problem will be where to mount the additional battery. Also, if you run your 24V motor at full throttle for long periods at 36V, it may get hot and have a shorter life. How long is your typical ride? Is it fairly flat terrain? And your weight plays a role, too. What is going to be the main use for your scooter? Daily commute to work, running neighborhood errands, just tooling around the neighborhood?

If we could have gotten your stock controller/throttle working properly, you would not have been happy with the performance, I'm afraid. It would not have approached 20MPH by any means.

I've never charged my batteries through the controller on my scooters, so I can't comment on that method at all. If you upgrade to 36V by adding a third battery, you will also need to buy a 36V charger unless you decide to parallel charge @12V.

Chintzel
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 13:37
Points: 35
New Scooter! Bladez 450 XTR SE

Hey there,
Well, I got my Pacelite scooter working fine - but it has some issues that are forcing me to get rid of it. Namely, It is too big. It barely fits in my trunk. Also, due to the rear suspension, the deck is not very amenable to standing on (I never use the seat since I only ride for 5-7 minutes and then have to store it in my trunk of my car). I feel like I am towering over the handle bars and have to get really close to them in order to get both my feet comfortably on the deck. This also makes steering it hard and I feel like if I hit a defect in the road, I am going to flying over the handle bars! Anyway, I decided to get another Bladez 450 like I had several years ago - it was cheap (200 bucks) and brand new. Now, It fits my needs well except it would be nice to get a few more MPH out if it like I had with my old Goped. Right now it tops out about 14-15 mph with the stock sprockets - the front drive sprocket has 12 teeth and the rear one has 75 (pretty hard to count them). There are 13 teeth front sprockets out there that look like the will fit (but don't have the "D" opening like mine has so I am not completely sure) for the #25 chain and it looks like swapping it will be easier than dealing with the rear one. Which, by the way, It is hard for me to tell what size mounting hole the rear sprocket has without taking it off. I am having trouble finding out online. Anyway, do you think I will get another 2mph top end out of it with just that front 12 to 13 teeth front sprocket swap? Do I need to take any links out of the chain? Thanks!

Pages

Log in or register to post comments


Who's online

There is currently 1 user online.

  • flapjacksbestof

Who's new

  • sab
  • officekeys
  • Zapp Scooter
  • Tonet_BCN
  • baroons

Customize This