It would appear that the Hesketh Motor Cycle Company is in serious difficulties. To Vectrix owners this is not a subject for gloating or point-scoring by spiteful malcontents.
Hesketh was exceedingly brave to take on the Vectrix agency, and to continue servicing UK owned Vectrix maxi-scooters.
Charles Hesketh and his team, showed real faith in Vectrix, by employing the fiercely loyal and knowledgeable Steve and the rest of his team, to provide continuity and the best of service to UK Vectrix owners.
Hesketh simply were not able to sell sufficient numbers of Vectrix to sustain the franchise. IMO, without heavy government assistance it would appear there just isn't enough market for the Vectrix product. Those that love Vectrix really love the bike, but as I discovered outside the resort rental market, sales are very limited. The US operation is focusing on Fleet and institutional sales. Vectrix Poland was st up to manufacture 35,000 bike p.a. The total bike sold by Vectrix in its entire existence to date would not exceed 10% of that figure.
This is the problem when passion and a great product, is simply not accepted by the market. Large corporations like GM, Toyota, etc have this problem from time to time and stuggle to survive, for small enterprises like Hesketh, it's overwhelming.
However, my opinion is not shared by Vectrix, who state they simply see the under performance by Hesketh, as the UK import franchise holder as an isolated problem, and will accordingly terminate the franchise, and appoint a new agent. Vectrix state that it will have no impact on rest of the EU dealers who are meeting expected targets.
I hope that Vectrix continue to retain Steve and his team, for the interim, until the new arrangements take effect. I am sure I speak for every vectrix owner, when we wish him the all best of Luck!
Hesketh complain of a great deal of disinformation and interference from former disgruntled ex-employees and subcontractors of the old Vectrix, hindering restructuring efforts.
This is unfortunate. I am one of those that "love" my Vectrix and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Vectrix finds the right combination of marketing/manufacturing to succeed. It seems to me that the rumored Lithium-ion version would be a huge step in the right direction. Again...crossing my fingers.
Well, Marco, I too hope that Steve Scot and his team are retained , but not just for the interim ( why did you say that?). Steve has built up an invaluable level of knowledge and experience and it would be a tragedy if the UK were to lose this.
Talking of knowledge and experience, that is clearly what Paul Hesketh and his little adventure never had. You could tell from their websites that they had no experience of business, marketing or electric vehicles. Not a good start. "Brave' maybe, but naive and lacking in knowledge. And it lost Vectrixvaluable time in re-establishing the market here.
1> Why change the brand of the product to Hesketh Vectrix, when Vectrix is only just getting off the ground and Hesketh has a totally crap reputation in motorcycle terms? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot just because you have the same surname as the name of a failed motorcycle manufacturer. Ego Drift is what it's called in management school, I'm told.
2> Let's not forget that Hesketh Vectrix also put misleading information on their website regarding how to charge a Vectrix, something that could have left owners with damaged batteries. Not to mention the illegal act of advertising prices not including VAT.
3> All Paul Hesketh has done is damage the Vectrix brand and piss off good people for six months or so here in the UK. The whole sorry story was complete La-La Land. I'm sorry but it is better that they have gone.
Lets hope that we get a professional importer here in the UK soon.
Addict
Not afraid to have a go
I say interim, because Steve Scott will undoubtedly be retained by Vectrix dating and after the changeover.
Talking of knowledge and experience, that is clearly what Paul Hesketh and his little adventure never had. You could tell from their websites that they had no experience of business, marketing or electric vehicles. Not a good start. "Brave' maybe, but naive and lacking in knowledge. And it lost Vectrixvaluable time in re-establishing the market here.
1> Why change the brand of the product to Hesketh Vectrix, when Vectrix is only just getting off the ground and Hesketh has a totally crap reputation in motorcycle terms? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot just because you have the same surname as the name of a failed motorcycle manufacturer. Ego Drift is what it's called in management school, I'm told.
2> Let's not forget that Hesketh Vectrix also put misleading information on their website regarding how to charge a Vectrix, something that could have left owners with damaged batteries. Not to mention the illegal act of advertising prices not including VAT.
3> All Paul Hesketh has done is damage the Vectrix brand and piss off good people for six months or so here in the UK. The whole sorry story was complete La-La Land. I'm sorry but it is better that they have gone.
Lets hope that we get a professional importer here in the UK soon.[/quote]
Y'know, I have no real desire to be unkind or overly harsh toward you,... but let me see,... let's evaluate Hesketh's effort toward the failed Vectrix enterprise, and your own?!
Hesketh spent a great deal of time, money and hardwork, picking up the pieces of a failed and defective product. They serviced defects and problems, that wwere none of there own making! They tried, failed, but tried!
In contrast, what the hell have you done ????
Apart from your petty whining, spiteful and pedantic critism about some almost imaginary illegal act, you have contributed nothing positive! Just a gloating, unjustified, santimonious, reviling of Hesketh's efforts!
But hey, maybe I owe you an apology! Tell us your acheivements in the marketing of EV's? Operating an EV Business?
No?
Well, Ok, .. tell us how much capital you invested to "re-estasblish the market" for Vectrix?
No?
The last thing Vectrix needs, is armchair, wiseacre, pundits, with pedantic critisims, gloating at the expense of better men!
I should state that I have no contact or conection with Hesketh(HMC) except to elicit information, nor do I have any ties,investment or involvement with the owners, staff or associates of Hesketh (HMC).
marcopolo
Ooooh Marco darling, you've spat your dummy.
My point has always been that the interests of Vectrix and Vectrix owners are not best served by a semi-amateur UK importer. I do know a thing or two about starting and running successful businesses and the observations I have made have simply been evidence that Hesketh showed all the signs of not being a successful business.
It doesn't matter whether you are selling EVs or underwear, technical knowledge is not enough, you need the basic ability to run a business well. On the evidence, Mr Hesketh had neither, at least as far as EVs are concerned, otherwise why would he have put misleading advice on the web, allowed what was at times a semi-literate website, and done naive (and illegal) stuff re pricing. I'll let events speak for themselves.
I also think it is perfectly reasonable to criticise a company when it is doing stuff which is illegal (not at all imaginary Marco, the laws are in place to protect all of us) and, as another commentator pointed out on this site, doing stuff which was potentially lethal. Welcome to the internet.
I contacted Hesketh off-line and never had the courtesy of a single reply. Nor did Hesketh ever reply to any comments anybody made here either, which is amazing given that we have the biggest concentration of interested Vectrix riders anywhere in the world, right here.
Going back to my original point the facts are, Marco, that I was right all along. I remain of the view that we are better off without them. Good on them for having a go, but if you put your reputation on the line by doing so, you have to expect people to criticise you when you get things wrong, do not respond to advice when you are getting it wrong and when you put peoples lives and Vectrixes in danger. And I don't want amateurs having a go with my bike or a brand that I invested my money in, at the highest price and possibly before you did.
Believe me, when we get decent importer in the UK, I will be as enthusastic in my endorsement as I was acerbic in my admonishment.
Oh, and here's your dummy, Marco.
Addict
Not afraid to have a go
Goodness me! you really should get a life! The 10 or so, relevant replies to your defamatory post "Now Hesketh behave criminally" could hardly be said to support your petty complaints.
The errors you made in your allegations were thoroughly explained to you at that time.
Even if you were correct, the level of transgression (a VAT description error) is such a petty matter! Your ridiculously pompous statement "the laws are there to protect us all", is nonsense. Some obscure regulation regarding VAT, is hardly a matter of being "potentially lethal or putting peoples lives and Vectrixes in danger"!
Regarding technical matters, Hesketh were far from "amateurs". Hesketh retained Steve Smith, (the former), and current, technical manager of Vectrix in the UK. Any criticism of Hesketh in technical matters, is a criticism of Vectrix itself.
On reflection, the right expression to describe your whining, is HUMBUG!
marcopolo
Marco, not only have you lost your temper, you've lost your marbles.
To keep it brief, and in response to your points:
"Even if you were correct, the level of transgression (a VAT description error) is such a petty matter! Your ridiculously pompous statement "the laws are there to protect us all", is nonsense." What on earth do you think the laws are there for then?
"Some obscure regulation regarding VAT, is hardly a matter of being "potentially lethal or putting peoples lives and Vectrixes in danger" You are mixing up two points here, Marco. The advice given by Hesketh on charging was identified as another contributor to this site as potentially lethal, not just to the bike, but also to the rider"
Your rather over-excited responses to my postings and to those of many others over previous months on the Vectrix section of this site, lead me to believe that you are incapable of sticking to the facts. SO just for the record, once again. The facts are:
> Hesketh gave misleading advice on their website that if implemented would have damaged Vectrixes
> This advice was identified by another poster on here as potentially lethal to the rider
> Showing pricing on a consumer website when that pricing does not include VAT in the prominent price is illegal and a CRIMINAL offence
> Laws are there to protect us
>The Hesketh website in its various forms had numerous typos and very basic spelling mistakes that would be likely to create a very poor impression for anyone using their site. This would hardly enhance the likelihood of them being a successful importer
> According to you they have lost the UK franchise because Vectrix themselves have stripped them of it
I'll rest my case. We are better off without them.
Not afraid to have a go
Just to be clear, before Marco does another human volcano, The bad advice on the Hesketh site came from Hesketh and nobody else.
Not afraid to have a go
Now now chaps, why should I feel that I should be moderator again? John, does this tickle you pink when you read this sort of diatribe?
It made me laugh that two people with a common interest can stir each other so. It does make for amusing reading though.
Everyone should be able to air their points on this site without being bullied.
Dummies should remain appropriate for my young son only.
Real volcanoes exist only in Iceland and I doubt they have enough ash, erm, sorry Cash for even a second hand Vectrix at the moment.
Be civil chaps.
Best wishes,
Drew
Drew
Well, most of them are humbug!After all, there are laws and laws, not all laws are benign and some have been downright shameful.
Good heavens! What a bate you have worked yourself into! I'll bet you are a terror with the local council by-laws! Sure you haven't been watching to many re-runs of episodes of 'the Bill", y'know, the ones staring P.C.Reg Hollis?
Typo errors and bad spelling! My goodness, well that's really bad! Why don't you sneak on them to the teacher? What else? Horror of Horrors, somebody claimed something might be bad! OMG, such wickedness! Well that's really it! Nothing else for it, Noddy! Better send for Mr Plod!
What's that? Surely you would have checked? No? You mean you haven't actually bothered to get a ruling from the VAT section of the Inland revenue Service? If this is such a serious Criminal offence, surely as a diligent little busybody you would have regarded it a public duty to report this heinous offence?
No? Of course not!
Well, since no Director of Hesketh has actually been charged with any criminal offence, much less convicted, I will give you a very valuable piece of advice.
A wilful, reckless and/or malicious erroneous accusation of a criminal offence, can under certain circumstances, become a criminal offence. This is in addition to the civil tort of libel. Leave such accusations to the properly constituted authorities.
Find a more useful and serious cause to vent all that pent up fury!
Drew,you are quite right when you say, "Everyone should be able to air their points on this site without being bullied'.
However, there is a requirement to tell the truth, stick to those facts you have carefully researched. and cite authorities, if you want to be taken seriously!
Airing your opinions is one thing, but if you are going to accuse others of criminal acts, or serious wrong doing, it pays to have checked with as many sources as you can, before maliciously passing judgement or disseminating libellous material.
In the case of Vectrixaddict, a simple letter, phone call, or email to the Vat office would have provided him with precise information. Instead he gives the impression of a pedantically spiteful individual, sticking his nose in, in a totally uncalled for, and unwanted fashion. In the opinion of the VAT man, he is the sort of individual, who has probably been fined for some petty VAT transgression, and this accounts for his obsession! (I have absolutely no evidence to suggest this opinion is accurate).
Hesketh was not "stripped of its distributorship". Hesketh and Vectrix have parted ways, not because of any wrongdoing, but simply because Hesketh failed to sell enough units.
Y'see, I check my facts.
marcopolo
Nice battle, marcopolo VS Vectrixaddict. Better than than Marcopolo VS Rebel.
10$ for Marcopolo...
Marco, It appears that you are the one who has worked himself into a "bate". Read your posts and compare the language to mine. And if you are going to attribute wording to me, please at least try to quote me correctly.
Marco, you said: "However, there is a requirement to tell the truth, stick to those facts you have carefully researched. and cite authorities, if you want to be taken seriously!" You really are a tiresome and totally misguided fellow Marco but here goes. I refer back to the facts I posted and their sources:
1: Hesketh gave misleading advice on their website that if implemented would have damaged Vectrixes. Sources: http://www.heskethmotorcycles.net/ accessed 16/11/2009 and documented elsewhere on this site
2: This advice was identified by another poster on here as potentially lethal to the rider. Source: Post by Mik Tue, 02/02/2010 - 12:47, on this site
3: Showing pricing on a consumer website when that pricing does not include VAT in the prominent price is illegal and a CRIMINAL offence. Source: Trading Standards Office and many government sites on the web, I quote:
"Under the Price Marking Order 2004 you must:
... Display clearly the price of goods
... Include VAT and any other taxes
...The law says that the price must be marked in a way that is unambiguous, easily identifiable and clearly legible. It's a criminal offence to breach the regulations."
4: Laws are there to protect us (an opinion, my opinion, a common opinion, source: me)
5: The Hesketh website in its various forms had numerous typos and very basic spelling mistakes that would be likely to create a very poor impression for anyone using their site. This would hardly enhance the likelihood of them being a successful importer. Source; " The bikes have a capasity of 3.7 Killer watt per hour, assuming you pay a standard rate for your electricity supply the bike willnot cost you more than a penny per mile." http://www.heskethmotorcycles.com sourced: November 2009. It's not true either!
6: According to you, Marco, they have lost the UK franchise because Vectrix themselves have stripped them of it; Source: Marco, this thread.
Marco you said I had got this wrong. Please make up your mind. You said it in your own post; "However, my opinion is not shared by Vectrix, who state they simply see the under performance by Hesketh, as the UK import franchise holder as an isolated problem, and will accordingly terminate the franchise, and appoint a new agent."
Y'see Marco, I KNOW and check my facts. Unlike you. You can't even get the facts straight about what you have previously written here.
Now the question is can you accept that I am right, you are wrong and you should apologise? I doubt it. You'll probably come back with another rant, making yourself look totally ridiculous again. Or maybe just go and sulk. Let's see.
Cheers
Addict
Not afraid to have a go
I dont want to be drawn into this debate about HMC and Vectrix as I have wasted far to much of my time on this chancer, only to say that I would prefer if my name was no longer associated with HMC .
I am still continuing to work on Vectrix and other EV's although for the time being no Vectrix Warranty work.
I have ceased to offer my services to HMC about 6 weeks ago so if you contacted HMC with a warranty issue this is why it has not been addressed.
If anyone wishes to know the facts as to what is happening I would be happy to fill them in ,but not on a public forum.
Steve Scott
Well, I'm in Melbourne Australia. Pop over for a cup of tea and you can fill me in on the gossip! :)
An exceeding uncommon opinion, from an exceedingly common man!
'They look, have eyes, but will not see!!" (Gandhi)
Do you work for the Guardian or News of the World? I suppose in your hyer-pedantic sensationalist world, their is do difference between "terminating for sales under-performance' and "Stripping for wrongdoing"!
(all though the idea of stripping for any sort of doing....but never mind, 'addict will probably report me to the Big Ears Thought Police Committee for Incorrect Thinking).
Hey, hang on, what the....'Vectrixaddict'??????, I have a sneaking suspicion that no one can really be so absurdly egotistically petty and pedantic! Don't tell me I have fallen for some sort of giant wind-up!!!
C'mon, I'll buy it! Y'had us all believing the character of a 'Vectrixaddict' there for a while! Good one!
marcopolo
Steve, I am sure that you are acting quite properly in refraining to enter into discussions concerning your former employer on a public forum. (Although we are all agog for the gossip! to our shame!)
It would be a great shame if your services were lost to the Vectrix community! Especially for those individual owners who are not terribly technically minded and rely on the knowledge of experts like yourself.
However, if I may, (and you are probably far too busy) Now you are no longer bound by direct employment, Do you think you could find time to write a "hints and tips" Vectrix technical advice thread. This would be very useful for owners in the more far flung parts of the world? Also we would love to read your honest appraisals of the strength and deficiencies of the VX 1?
Mik, provides a wonderful and selfless amount of information, but (I'm sure Mik would agree)his Knowledge is restricted to one bike, you have the advantage of servicing hundreds and understanding the full technical...ah, aspects!
Just an idea.
But anyway, all the best for the future. I am sure every Vectrix Owner wishes you success.
marcopolo
Just as I predicted.
Not afraid to have a go
Just to set the record straight
I was never employed by Hesketh .
I worked for him as a subcontractor to take care of any warranty work that came his way from existing Vectrix customers.
This could not be done direct because he was the official importer and also in order for me to get spare parts for retail customers I had to go through him.
I didnt get paid (along with a list of other people ) so thats where that ended.
There must be alot of Vectrix customers who have filed warranty claims through his website that will not get done because he shot himself in the foot by not paying me as he has no technical staff.
This wont be a worry to him as he has no interest in the EV market he just thought this would be a get rich quick scheme that needs no outlay, well we all no that this is not the case.
The whole EV market is still very embryonic and you have to be in it for the long run as it is not going to happen overnight.
As i said to Paul Hesketh from the beginning "you wont sell bikes sat in an office " you need to have good marketing and PR ,attend events and exhibitions etc.
Unfortunately all of this costs money ,something that Hesketh seemed to have over looked.
I am continuing to service and maintain Vectrix but also other brands so I am not going anywhere just yet but what we have to do is stop these scammers trying to get into the ev market because they think it will make them a fortune overnight.
Every time they screw things up it sends not just the brand they are dealing with but the whole ev market backwards be cause the public see it as just another flash in the pan here today and gone tomorrow ev manufacturer who wont be around to honor any warranty or service back up once the have gone.
Steve Scott
I understand that one bike, the Vectux, sooo well, I have today completely re-programmed the charger!
Instead of top-balancing, it now performs bottom balancing. It only took me a minute:
Before installation of the new software:
.
and after the installation of the new software:
ROTFLMAO
.
.
But seriously, it would be much appreciated if the knowledge of people like Steve, who do actually understand the Vectrix, would remain available!
My repairs are basically just jerry-rigging to get this pile of junk into a somewhat functional state!
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
Haha nice one Mik.
I had that software but I left the lid off and it dried out.
Steve Scott
I am sorry to hear of your troubles. However, thank you for clarifying your position.
Very true! As I said somewhere else, EV sales and manufacture, is a business for those with very deep pockets, and a lot of patience!
I have not really dealt with Paul Hesketh, and without hearing from him, it would be improper to comment. This is not a reflection on you, or your veracity, just an attempt to be fair.
Well, hopefully, most of the major manufacturers seem to have EV's in planning or production. The smaller firms are forming alliances with industry majors (Tesla/Toyota etc. The EV future looks assured.
Toyota, Ford, Nissan, Audi, VW, Mitsubishi, Mazda are all releasing EV models. Major advances are taking place in battery development, so it looks as if you will have your hands full in the future!
marcopolo
Hey Marco,
Still think you were right? Just like the soldier who thinks he is the only one in step.
Not afraid to have a go
haha. Anybody wondering why The EV future looks assured? Very easy: "peak oil" and oil scarcity are really assured...
I have today completely re-programmed the charger!You mean you installed FW oct 2008?
My experience tells me that the FW expected a 30Ah battery, but couldn't insert all expected energy. As you ride the Vectrix, the firmware will get used to the real capacity of your "damaged battery"
No, it was just a joke!
I wrote new software (with a marker pen) onto the display!
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
yeah.. Great joke, thanks for clarifying.. But you wrote "hardware", not SW...:-)
I just realised, all, or least the overwhelming majority, of posts by the tree house club, are related to some derogatory, malicious gossip about Vectrix. In fact, as far as I can ascertain, all relate to about Vectrix in the UK!
What to conclude from this, my dear Watson?
Possibly all the tree house member(s) are either one, or possibly more, disgruntled, overlooked, low ranking EX-Vectrix UK, employee(s) or sub-contractor(s) with an inferiority complex, and a burning anxiety that any thing happening concerning Vectrix UK, does not include him/them.
Just a theory! But it would explain the sad, obsessive behaviour!
marcopolo
lol
ouch!
It worked!
Not afraid to have a go
This is unfortunate.
www.electricscooterschina.com Electric scooterMoped Elektro Roller http://www.electricsco
Yep, that's one description. But one day EV bikes/scooters from the PRC might become acceptable!
marcopolo
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