7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric scooter - US$7237

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MitchJi
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7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric scooter - US$7237

Hi,

http://www.gizmag.com/intermot-motorcycle-show-major-new-models-reviewed/16716/

05:03 October 25, 2010

The Intermot motorcycle and bicycle fair rolled around in Cologne earlier this month with a lot of focus clearly beginning to shine on the area of electric bikes, scooters, bicycles and even smaller devices...

The world’s fastest electric scooter, the 7100 watt ZEV

I also rode the world’s fastest electric scooter, the 7100 watt ZEV, and I can tell you that it is a rocketship fast enough to safely get you through hostile urban traffic and more than quick enough to pull you clear of traffic at the stoplight Grand Prix. It and the top-of-the-line Vectrix which is only slightly slower, offer just about everything you need from an electric commuter. The ZEV has two stages of braking – the first offers regenerative braking from the rear wheel and essentially slows the bike quite rapidly, but a bigger handful of the brake lever brings in the front disk and ample enough stopping power for any situation.

The ZEV also has three speeds, operated by a sequential shift button on the throttle grip – 1-2-3-2-1 style just as in Formula One cars, though with a few less ratios available – and the combo offers better acceleration than almost any car. I spoke at length with ZEV founder and chief engineer Darus Zehrbach and Darus was quite clear about his intentions with the brand and future developments.

“We have the world’s fastest production electric scooter and I intend to keep it that way – if you build a faster one, I’ll build another that will be faster than yours.”

Darus was also clear on his intentions to eventually develop the brand into a full range with high-performance electric motorcycles at the high end, and electric bicycles and mountain bikes at the lower end. It was patently clear that more power and range on the way for his scooters too.

More info here:
http://www.gizmag.com/zev-zev7000-electric-scooter/14839/

American manufacturer ZEV has issued a fairly blunt challenge to other electric motorcycle manufacturers such as Vectrix, Zero Motorcycles and Brammo, by claiming to have the fastest and most powerful production electric scooter on the market in its US$7237 ZEV7000. "We tell them to bring their street legal production bike and to bring their betting money. There can be only one "fastest" street legal production electric motor scooter or bike in the world."

It's a big call to say your vehicle is the fastest on the market and call out your competitors like ZEV is doing - and it's an even bigger call when your bike's top speed is listed simply as "+113kmph/70mph."

For reference, when we test rode the impressive Vectrix electric scooter a couple of years back, that bike hit 110kmh fairly comfortably on the freeway too - despite the fact that it's only advertised to have a top speed of around 100.

Still, the ZEV7000 looks like a quality product, so we'll leave it to the competition to tackle or disprove any of ZEV's big claims and just take a look at the machine itself.

As its name suggests, the ZEV7000 puts out a continuous output of 7kW - with a peak output around 8kW and 14kW of standing start/launch power. Claimed peak torque, however, is a sky-high 184Nm, which would certainly help get it off the line with some gusto.

ZEV claims its secret recipe for massive torque is as simple as using large-diameter, multiphase motors, with a heavy emphasis on component cooling. Cooling the hub-mounted motor using an oil bath arrangement lets ZEV run a large motor at high speeds without the power sapping and motor-destroying effects of excess heat. The oil also helps ward off corrosion on the magnets - and this is part of the reason why ZEV offers a 2-year warranty on all its machines.

Range for the ZEV7000 is similar to the Vectrix at between 55 and 70 miles between charges, which take 25 minutes for a 75 percent top-up, or around 2 hours for a full charge. You can extend the vehicle's range or choose to access higher power by using what the company calls its "electronic transmission" - a switch that lets you choose how many amps the engine is running at. Low amps means low power but extended range, higher amps will drain the battery faster but give the bike substantially more beans.

Naturally, the ZEV7000 has also got a two-way throttle that can be rotated forward while on the move to engage regenerative engine braking and help get a bit more juice back into the battery.

One area in which the ZEV clearly stomps the Vectrix is in weight. Where the Vectrix comes in at a porky 200+kg, the ZEV tips the scales at a svelte 134kg. That's certainly going to give the ZEV a clear advantage on the dragstrip.

And the price tag is considerably leaner too, at US$7237 after tax credits to the Vectrix's RRP of around US$10,000 - although the Vectrix does bring with it a swag of top-shelf Italian braking and suspension componentry from Brembo and Marzocchi, as well as sexy looks that outclass the more utilitarian ZEV.

All in all, ZEV looks to be putting a fairly strong case forward as a commuter vehicle. The lithium battery should last upwards of 3000 full charge cycles, significantly more if you're putting it back on the charger without running it right down - so it should be good for upwards of 10 years of daily use with virtually no maintenance besides tires and fork oil.

MitchJi
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

Hi,

Company site is here:
http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/4.html

...This bikes primary design goal was to be a commuter bike that could run on the highway and complete a 50 mile round trip.

The ZEV7000 will run 130 kph / 80 mph from a dead stop in a 1/3rd mile run on a SAE standard conditions day. The bike can run +116 kmph / 72 mph speeds with a 6 ft tall, 190 lb. rider sitting upright in only a 1/4 mile / .4 km standing start.

Look closer and you will see that this bike is really a sport bike in disguise. The visual cues are there. The big, no flex swingarm for excellent handling. The high end gas shocks that only expensive sport bikes approaching $10,000 have. (All ZEV7000 made after June 2010 have the gas shocks) Notice the modular wheel and motor system that is only sold on a ZEV. Under the bodywork is a highly torsionally rigid frame unlike any "scooter" comprised of 1.25 OD steel tubing. This is not a little scooter despite its very light weight. The wheelbase is 2.5 inches (6.35 cm) Longer than a Honda CBR1000 RR chassis for excellent high speed handling. The ground clearance is excellent with no grounding in the curves in road racing (unlike the bikes like the Vectrix that grind the body on the curves).

We put the bike to the test in Intermot Electric Scooter Roadracing. Thirty minutes of flat our racing and the motor and controller only get warm, never hot. After thirty minutes of racing we put the bike back out on the demonstrator program without stopping to charge so that people could drive the bike and see what makes it so special themselves...

Best Wishes!

Mitch

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

In spain 9 different brand importing this same chinese scooter.
yes!!! 9!! check it by yourself:
http://movele.ayesa.es/movele2/muestraVehiculos.php

Arngren
Bereco
Goelix
Kyoto
Tohqy
Erider
E-fun
KM verde
boosters-bike

Senseless, isn't it?
Frankly, I believe it is a good idea to stay away from chinese designs, because Chinese people still have the "cheap cheap cheap" mentality that ruins their electric scooters. maybe it is a better idea to purchase American/European/japanese, good quality electric motorbikes.:-)

AndY1
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

Naturally, the ZEV7000 has also got a two-way throttle that can be rotated forward while on the move to engage regenerative engine braking and help get a bit more juice back into the battery.

I hope they licensed that with Vectrix since they invented and patented it.

Aircon
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

I want one please (if it's as good as their advertising says)

marylandbob
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

Looks like VECTRIX needs to hurry up with a large capacity LITHIUM battery-Preferably with over 4.5 KWH capacity! I have a 2008 VX-1, and while the 68 mph speed is adequate for most trips, the RANGE, and the PREDICTABILITY of THE RANGE, have been problems, as has the batteries tolerance to HEAT, both natural heat from the summer sun, and internally generated heat of discharge/charge action. I would love to reliably get a range of at least 45 miles, while operating at 50-55 mph speeds over the sligtly hilly Maryland roadways around the Baltimore, Md./Washington, D.C. area!--My VECTRIX usually manages around 20 miles at those speeds, on a good day. It would be worth $2,000.00 or thereabouts to be able to go on a 35 mile trip at speed,(even in the hot, 95 degreeF. summer) without worrying about the battery!-(I am about 5'9" and 200 pounds)-Bob Curry

Robert M. Curry

Aircon
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

It would be worth $2,000.00 or thereabouts to be able to go on a 35 mile trip at speed,

I'd be happy to pay a lot more than that!!

PJD
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

The website claims that they are US assembled, using a mix Chinese components and components built by themselves. While they obviously use the same generic Chinese body parts, they claim that they build their own frames and use many other improvements.

I live near their Pittsburgh facility. I will try to get out for a test ride this weekend.

HarryS
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

I am sorry but this looks like a toy compared to the Vectrix. None of the competing bikes have managed a 21kW peak output which makes the Vectix so much fun to drive. The continuous output is almost irrelevant since the Vectrix is artifically capped at 68mph which is easily sustained by its output. And all the claims on range need to be verified. I'd hang on to the Vectrix, an dthose of you on the fence just get a deal on EBAY.

antiscab
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

None of the competing bikes have managed a 21kW peak output which makes the Vectix so much fun to drive.

power to weight ratio is more important for performance than outright power.

Vectrix 21kw in 260kg = 80W/kg
14kw / 140kg = 100W / kg

being BLDC, a more powerful controller (which is what limits max power) is easier to come by.

the oil inside the hub motor is an interesting solution so continuous power.

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

marylandbob
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

I would welcome the chance to race it UPHILL with my VECTRIX, and have both vehicles operated by drivers weighing 190 to 210 pounds.
It remains to be determined what it will do in real-world situations! My VECTRIX has exceeded 60 mph on some UPHILL runs. Will this scooter also do that? (I weigh 200 pounds)-Bob

Robert M. Curry

MitchJi
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

Hi Harry,

I am sorry but this looks like a toy compared to the Vectrix. None of the competing bikes have managed a 21kW peak output which makes the Vectix so much fun to drive.

The ZEV has a 3 speed transmission. A friend built an Ebike with a hub motor with 4800 watt peaks. His next Ebike was a non-hub, driving through a 3 speed Nexus hub. Due to the advantages of driving through the gears he got better performance with 2800 watt peaks (and as Matt pointed out its much lighter).

The website claims that they are US assembled, using a mix Chinese components and components built by themselves. While they obviously use the same generic Chinese body parts, they claim that they build their own frames and use many other improvements.

I live near their Pittsburgh facility. I will try to get out for a test ride this weekend.

Great! Please post your impressions (and be sure [grin] to ask about a visforvoltage forum discount).

Best Wishes!

Mitch

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

I would welcome the chance to race it UPHILL with my VECTRIX, and have both vehicles operated by drivers weighing 190 to 210 pounds.

that would be really funny.. If this race ever happens, please post the video in internet....
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

The ZEV has a 3 speed transmission. A friend built an Ebike with a hub motor with 4800 watt peaks. His next Ebike was a non-hub, driving through a 3 speed Nexus hub. Due to the advantages of driving through the gears he got better performance with 2800 watt peaks (and as Matt pointed out its much lighter).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It says above that it´s an "electronic transmission" just simple Amp settings...

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

The evaluation and test ride is postponed until at least Saturday, November 6. Darius wrote that there is local athletic event using his test site (Waynesburg, Pa airport) this weekend, so no test rides will be available.

marylandbob
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

It does not seem likely that an airport will offer much chance to test HILL-CLIMBING speed! I was very favorably impressed when I tested the VECTRIX on an UPHILL stretch, with myself(at 200 pounds) and a 225 pound buddy on the back--425 pound(total) passenger load, at over 50 Mph from dead start at the hill bottom!--Bob Curry

Robert M. Curry

MitchJi
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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

Hi Johnny,

The ZEV has a 3 speed transmission. A friend built an Ebike with a hub motor with 4800 watt peaks. His next Ebike was a non-hub, driving through a 3 speed Nexus hub. Due to the advantages of driving through the gears he got better performance with 2800 watt peaks (and as Matt pointed out its much lighter).

It says above that it´s an "electronic transmission" just simple Amp settings...

Actually it says it has both, three speeds (sequential shift button with multiple ratios and a switch that controls amps):

The ZEV also has three speeds, operated by a sequential shift button on the throttle grip – 1-2-3-2-1 style just as in Formula One cars, though with a few less ratios available – and the combo offers better acceleration than almost any car.

You can extend the vehicle's range or choose to access higher power by using what the company calls its "electronic transmission" - a switch that lets you choose how many amps the engine is running at. Low amps means low power but extended range, higher amps will drain the battery faster but give the bike substantially more beans.

Best Wishes!

Mitch

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

Hi Roger,

Frankly, I believe it is a good idea to stay away from chinese designs, because Chinese people still have the "cheap cheap cheap" mentality that ruins their electric scooters. maybe it is a better idea to purchase American/European/japanese, good quality electric motorbikes.:-)

Unfortunately the current Vectrix (which in some ways is outstanding) has a quite a long way to go on the quality front:

  • $9k scooter with a $5k battery with a very poor BMS. Best case you can limp along with poor/inconsistent range. The more likely scenario is you limp along for a while and then need a new battery
  • no electronic battery pack conditioning
  • don't charge the scooter for while, or leave the lights on and it either kills the pack or if you are very lucky it only requires a complicated procedure to charge
  • OTOH charge it too frequently and it loses track of the state of charge (range)!
  • replacing the main fuse is a 2 or 3 hour procedure if you have done it before. Otherwise 8-10 hours.
  • straight cut gears in the planetary GB which are noisier than helically cut gears. Exacerbated by poor quality control on the gears themselves and assembly

Many of these problems are inexcusable. It might be that the Vectrix is the best scooter available but if a competing scooter comes on the market that has a solid 4-5kwh pack and is competitive with the Vectrix's strong points it would be a compelling alternative. This scooter might not even come close to meeting those criteria but OTOH I don't think its reasonable to dismiss possible contenders on the basis of the Vectrix is so good that its impossible to beat.

The ZEV also has three speeds, operated by a sequential shift button on the throttle grip – 1-2-3-2-1 style just as in Formula One cars, though with a few less ratios available – and the combo offers better acceleration than almost any car.

I would welcome the chance to race it UPHILL with my VECTRIX, and have both vehicles operated by drivers weighing 190 to 210 pounds.

that would be really funny.. If this race ever happens, please post the video in internet....

From a dead start up the hill the scooter with the 3 speed gearbox should beat the Vectrix (compare a single speed bicycle with a geared bicycle, particularly starting on a hill). Also note the quote from the test ride (is the low speed Vectrix acceleration "better than almost any car"?).

Be interesting to see the relative top/sustained uphill speeds.

I just noticed that in three days this thread has 294 views. Seems to be a lot of interest in a quality scooter that addresses some of the shortcomings of the Vectrix.

Best Wishes!

Mitch

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

In summary:
It seems that MitchJi is offering a good battery pack, with a good engine, with good electronics... on a scrap chinese frame.
Come on! design your own!. Give this bike the good-loooking quality it deserves! Take the 2010 Zero for reference: the product has an outstanding looking quality, build in USA.

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

I just noticed that in three days this thread has 294 views. Seems to be a lot of interest in a quality scooter that addresses some of the shortcomings of the Vectrix.

That's because of your rather inappropriate plugging of this hype and vapour ware into the Vectrix forum, where it does not belong. Had you posted it elsewhere, there would have been a lot less interest!

Start a forum for this scooter and see how much views and responses you get!

I don't believe a word of these ads until at least a few owner reports come through. And then, there is still the uncertainty that any part of this scooter could be different from the one tested, because they come under so many different trade names.

But they are all made in China, cheaply, not necessarily badly, but with bugger all regard for the environment or for the health of the workers. They are cheap because no kind of "triple bottom line" is used.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

I still need to be convinced that they can pack a mechanical transmission in a standard chinese hubmotor casing (though painted black), it all seems thoroughly impossible to me....

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

I just noticed that in three days this thread has 294 views. Seems to be a lot of interest in a quality scooter that addresses some of the shortcomings of the Vectrix.

I did testride such a Scooter in late summer. It is as shown in the first photo, the scooter is to small for me/my driving habits. It is indeed very silent, but as I´m lucky with having one of the good "silent" gears its better in the city with this gear as people crossing the road hear at least some whining when I come. Acceleration was not as good as the vectrix, the frame and so driving habits of the scooter are softer than the Frame/habits of the Vectrix. I won´t use maximum speed with such a small scooter as I won´t feel as save as I do with the Vectrix.

AND we are not limping, Vectrixdrivers drive fast and sometimes furious ;-)

Greetings Mike

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

Please some more test ride reports?? Has anyone else checked this out? A

Are they just in the US or also in Europe? I had someone from Norway ask me about them just yesterday- must have seen them in COlogne...

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

I still need to be convinced that they can pack a mechanical transmission in a standard chinese hubmotor casing (though painted black), it all seems thoroughly impossible to me....

The mechanical transmission is the thing that interests me as well. You can make a small transmission to fit in a hub. You can make a tough transmission to manage lots of torque. But can you make a transmission small enough to fit in a hub and tough enough to handle the torque?

ZEV think they can. Independent testing will tell.

In the meantime MitchJi - do you have any more details or closeup photos of that transmission (and Mik is right you shouldn't really put this in the Vectrix section).

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

About the transmission... Anybody remember the very first Tesla? It had two speed transmission. they ended with one single speed to avoid problems... Torque, power and range was incresed...
http://jalopnik.com/5048606/tesla-finalizes-single+speed-transmission-ups-output-range

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

This motor is large and there is almost no steel used in the motor only aluminum. I guess because this is a low RPM direct drive it can be filled with oil whereas with the higher RPM Vectrix motor the hydrodynamic resistance or drag would be to much to allow that.

There are evidently three versions including two "ALPINE" versions, see http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/4.html.
Of the two alpine versions one has "a higher electrical power supply to the motor which increases climbing torque 28%, but which cuts range 15-20% depending upon rider driving habits". Version two has a "Torque motor which increases available torque by 31%, but reduces top speed to 60 mph".

They also make a custom modle, see Faq 19 at http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/12.html
"Our 10000 model (custom model) can run over 95 mph if you really want to run fast. The electric motorcycles like Brammo and Zero are much slower topping out at only 67 mph advertised"

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

This motor is large and there is almost no steel used in the motor only aluminum. I guess because this is a low RPM direct drive it can be filled with oil whereas with the higher RPM Vectrix motor the hydrodynamic resistance or drag would be to much to allow that.

Right - this is a direct drive motor. I'm interested in finding out about their mechanical transmission.

95mph on that frame makes me nervous.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

It does not seem likely that an airport will offer much chance to test HILL-CLIMBING speed

Waynesburg, in the SW part of Pennsylvania, is hilly place. Any test riding in the course of developing the scooter would have entailed climbing a lot of hills. I plan on judging the hill climbing adequacy based on the flat-ground acceleration.

Mostly I will have a long list in hand of questions regarding the design - particularly what this "transmission" is - it could simply refer refer a multiple speed motor. I will ask some questions about the Thundersky lithium packs in light of my ongoing experience with Thundersky cells.

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

Mostly I will have a long list in hand of questions regarding the design - particularly what this "transmission" is - it could simply refer refer a multiple speed motor. I will ask some questions about the Thundersky lithium packs in light of my ongoing experience with Thundersky cells.

PJD - I really look forward to hearing about it. I was disappointed it wasn't going to be this weekend - but, hey, I can wait.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

Hi,

I will ask some questions about the Thundersky lithium packs in light of my ongoing experience with Thundersky cells.

Thundersky?! So much for my hope that it uses high quality cells.

Best Wishes!

Mitch

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Re: 7100 watt ZEV w/3 speeds-world’s fastest electric ...

Hi Roger,

In summary:
It seems that MitchJi is offering a good battery pack, with a good engine, with good electronics... on a scrap chinese frame.
Come on! design your own!. Give this bike the good-loooking quality it deserves! Take the 2010 Zero for reference: the product has an outstanding looking quality, build in USA.

From your previous posts on this forum I think you are a very kind and helpful person. But there seems to be a serious misunderstanding. I am not offering anything.

I posted the link and quotes based on a test ride that stated that both this scooter and the Vectrix are high quality scooters and that this scooter had slightly better performance. They also stated it didn't have the problem of dragging the body in sharp turns, implying good handling.

I have no first hand knowledge of the quality of this scooter. You also don't have any first hand knowledge of the quality of this scooter but you immediately started slamming it based on nothing but the fact that it uses mostly Chinese components. I totally agree with your understanding that most Chinese Scooters are junk but that doesn't mean that every Scooter made with Chinese components is junk and it also doesn't mean that every Scooter made in the U.S., Europe or Japan can't be improved upon. The only point I have been trying to make in response to your critical posts is that its possible, based on the test ride and the specifications that its a good quality product, that is better in some ways than the Vectrix. Its also possible that its a piece of junk. But I think before you make those claims it would be better if you had some solid facts to back them up.

Actually if I had known that it used Thundersky Cells I might not have started the thread in the first place...

About the transmission... Anybody remember the very first Tesla? It had two speed transmission. they ended with one single speed to avoid problems... Torque, power and range was increased...
http://jalopnik.com/5048606/tesla-finalizes-single+speed-transmission-ups-output-range

The Tesla transmission supports the fact (if it isn't already clear to anyone who has pedaled a bike with gears) that you can get substantially better performance with gearing. They were working on meeting 0-60 MPH time of less than 4 seconds and they had trouble sourcing a 2 speed gearbox that was up to the task (they could have easily found a 4-5-6 speed). They finally solved the problem by increasing the power and going to a single speed gearbox. The combination of increased power and no time lost shifting the gears allowed them to meet their target. So the bottom line is that they did get better acceleration with a given amount of power by using gearing. In general of the many millions of vehicles on the road with transmissions reliability isn't a problem.

I'm sorry for any misunderstandings or if anything I said, in this post or my previous posts has bothered you or offended you in any way.

Best Wishes!

Mitch

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