Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

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ArcticFox
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Here's a shot in the arm with the XM-2000, guys:

Me: These VIN plates; is this something the customer will have to remove the old
and replace with the new? If so, would law enforcement see this as tampering
with vehicle identification?

Them: The customer would have to change the VIN plate. Right now this is our only
option or to wait till the new XM-2000 with the correct plates come in. The
VIN plates are not visible so if the police are looking they would have to
get clear down on the ground to look at it so if nothing is said when the
customer puts it on then it will be ok.

:jawdrop:

Anyone want to tell me how the original VIN plates are attached?

..............................................
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G III
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

`

The customer would have to change the VIN plate.

I don't know of a State anywhere in the USA, where changing the VIN plate is legal. I'd advise against it, unless you never plan on selling it. You'll have a Bill of sale with one VIN, and another different VIN on the Scooter. Good luck explaining that one to the Judge.
Why is Green E Motors and all the others selling the same Scooter not having the same problems with there Scooters? It seems like X-Treme may be looking a some additional consumer complaints to go alone with the long list they already have.

CALIFORNIA CODES
VEHICLE CODE
SECTION 10801-10804
10802. Any person who knowingly alters, counterfeits, defaces,
destroys, disguises, falsifies, forges, obliterates, or removes
vehicle identification numbers, with the intent to misrepresent the
identity or prevent the identification of motor vehicles or motor
vehicle parts, for the purpose of sale, transfer, import, or export,
is guilty of a public offense and, upon conviction, shall be punished
by imprisonment in the state prison for 16 months, or two or three
years, or by a fine of not more than twenty-five thousand dollars
($25,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment, or by up to one year
in the county jail, or by a fine of not more than one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

G III
"Justifiably Proud"

`

G III
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ArcticFox
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Well, another scare tactic. Read what you wrote - like a lawyer:

with the intent to misrepresent the
identity or prevent the identification

That's not the goal here. They're trying to represent and correctly identify this scooter. There doesn't seem to be any foul play or fraud here, just bad information from the... say it with me GMan... "Chinese". Personally I don't think removing a VIN and replacing it with another is something I want my customers doing whether it's legal or not. It's bad enough they have to order and install replacement parts for a NEW vehicle.

I have been seeing these types of mopeds around the net, usually for around $3k. Why? Is Green E Motors really selling the same ones? Where are they getting their supplies from? What shipping company are they using? I'm actually thinking about siding with GMan on his thoughts about this, but what can I do. What should we all do about this? I'm open to any and all suggestions.

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G III
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

`
It's not the local yocals you have to worry about, it's the Highway Patrol.
Since it's a State statue, the person to contact is Attorney General Edmund G. Brown Jr for a opinion.
If you are the seller, and are advising your customers to break the law, there could also be some legal repecussion for you also.
The Attorney General has already had dealings with X Treme before, and may be interested in hearing about what they are now doing.
Lets say you were buying a $50,000 Car, and the Dealer said what X Treme is saying, "Remove the VIN plate and we will mail you another to glue on" Where are all these VIN plates coming from? If you ever receive one, you can put it on anything you want,a stolen Vectrix or somthing you made in your Garage and want to get it registered in CA.

G III
"Justifiably Proud"

`

G III
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ArcticFox
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

A message to the AG has been sent. I'll post any information I get, here. Unless someone from that office posts here first.

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venky58
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Dear friends,

I narrowed down my selection to an EVT-4000e versus the Oxygen Lepton e-scooter. I took print-outs of specifications and decided to pay a visit to the registration office (tag office) to discuss with them before making any attempt to purchase.

I live in Melbourne, Florida.

They saw the maximum speed (about 30-35 mph) and read the sentence that "the EVT 4000e is accompanied by the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) and has a VIN number". However, they were concerned with the engine "cc". They were unsure about what to do with it, asked me to wait, and made a phone call to their HQ at Tallahassee. The intent being to find out if any EVT-4000e was found around there, and entered into the database, or something.

Upon finding nothing about the EVT-4000e in their database, they asked me to do the following. Contact the dealer (Electric Motorsport, in my case), and request them to FAX me a *blank* copy of the MCO. I would carry it to them sometime next week. And if they are unable to take any decision, they said they would call Tallahassee again and ask them what to do about it.

I explained to them that after purchasing, Electric Motorsport was willing to mail my MCO and original receipt to Fernando Pruna at Miami, who will then get the registration done and send the tag-plate. They said I could get it done here in Melbourne as well, and they only wanted to see what the MCO has in it.

Their prime concern is "what CC engine of a gasoline-based scooter does this EVT correspond to".

I should say the registration staff have been very nice to me during the process. Heard them discussing in hushed tones about my proposed *electric* scooter while reading the specification sheet, and watched their feel-good expressions :-)

I will keep you informed about the progress.

Please let me know if I need to anticipate anything at the tag office in order to avoid any surprises.

Thanks,

Venky

Venky

EVT 4000e Blue (13-Aug-2007)

pthack
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Does anyone know how easy it is to register one of the XM-2000's in Washington state? (I live right near Olympia, so have fairly easy access to get to the state folks to do it).

Does it register as a motorcycle (with tabs, etc), or as a moped?

Been riding motorcycles since childhood, but haven't had one for about 10 yrs, so I don't already have the motorcycle endorsement on my DL, and don't really want to HAVE to get one.

Pete.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

LOL!

I found this:
http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/motomanual.pdf

Start on PDF page 3 for a definition of moped and scooters.

USATracy should be able to figure out how to get around any unwritten/unverified/unclear non-laws like this for your state. :)

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kringle777
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

I finally got my CA "moped" plate in the mail today. I had decided to try to register my XM-2000 through the mail as a moped so it would be a one-time fee of $17, no yearly renewals, no hassles with the VIN tags or MSO paper, and no inspection. I sent in my current VIN tag number and listed the make/model as "E-Runner 220" (since that's a nice prominent sticker on the XM-2000 and what a cop would first see) and whatdaya know, no problems, got it in the mail in 2 weeks and now it's mounted on my scooter.

Now, if I get busted for speeding over 30 MPH or there is an exceptionally knowledgeable cop around, I'll go the route of registering it as a motorcycle and use the corrected VIN and MSO paper that I now expect to receive at some point in the near future (according to Arctic Fox and X-Treme).

Oh, and my insurance agent's office did happen to call me this last week saying there was a problem with the VIN tag. They had listed the model year as 2007 on my insurance form, but the deciphering of the VIN tag indicated it was a 2005 model. They thought I might have been incorrect in what I gave them. I told them about the whole VIN tag/MSO paper deal and in the end they weren't concerned with it. They had already entered an override on the computer to ignore the VIN issue. So that's that.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

Gman
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

` :?

kringle777
They had listed the model year as 2007 on my insurance form, but the deciphering of the VIN tag indicated it was a 2005 model.

That also confirms what I was told, "these are the old weak models", but I didn't know they were that old.

Peace Out,
Gman

What is your vision for the future our growing community?

Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Gman have you contacted X-Treme about that? The only thing confirmed is that the information on the VIN is incorrect - something we've known all along.

What is it with you always spouting off your anti XM-2000 propaganda? You claim to know insider information about things and people who do not exist. What exactly is your goal here?

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Kringle - woo hoo! Glad you got your moped tag. It's the same route that I followed - except that I went and did it face to face. Does anyone know if there's a mail in option in Michigan?

Gman - I have to second ArcticFox's sentiment. You keep referring to M.Cheng's description of a "weak model" - isn't it just possible he's more interested in selling you the new one? You have at least 4 active examples - that's me, kringle and usatracy with 2 - that claim satisfaction with the XM-2000 and at a great price. And there's a few more inactive ones that got po'd at the negativity surrounding their new XM's. None of us have said it was perfect but we feel that we got a good deal and were prepared to deal with the hiccups involved. Can you provide us some exact, verifiable details of the "weakness" (vague comments about a weak solenoid aren't useful - when is it expected to fail? what will the failure mode be? can we check a part number to see if we have that solenoid on our bikes?). If not, then you've mentioned it enough time to be "on the record". It's getting tiresome to hear it repeated.

TRUTH IN ADVERTISING: Now that I've received and ridden my XM-2000 I'm satisfied with both X-Treme and the scooter and I'm going to start selling them (web site isn't complete yet so I'm not accepting orders yet (http://www.revevllc.com) - but I have been approved). So, I do have a vested interest in understanding GMan's position on the XM-2000. BTW, I ordered my XM-2000 as a consumer - so there's no chance that ArcticFox or X-treme gave me better service as a potential dealer.

I recommend people on this forum interested in the XM-2000 purchase one from ArcticFox at http://www.BaseStationZero.com

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

venky58
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

Hi, folks,

Meanwhile I made my second trip to the registration office. Carried a sample fax message of the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin to the Florida Tag Registration Office at Brevard County, Melbourne. The VIN number was on the fax message. And the EVT-4000e was also categorized there as a "50-cc" scooter.

The TAG guys went through the certificate. I saw this front-desk guy carrying my fax-copy of the sample MCO and going to his manager and discussing with her behind.

Now the guy explains they "had a list of scooters who are authorized for registration in Florida". And, "they did not know what to decide on this document since they found no record of the EVT-4000e any place". "They had to go by the instructions of their HQ at Tallahassee, Florida". And they suggested that "I buy and go to Tallahassee with the Manufacturer's Certificate to initiate a new process by which a new entry for the EVT-4000e gets added and registered"!!

I got very surprised. EVT America's distributor is located in my own backyard, viz. Miami. How can someone in the same _state_ do this?

I said to them that the dealer (Electric Motorsport) was willing to help me by getting my EVT-4000e registered at Miami by sending over the mail the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin and copy of the bill of sale to EVT America, Miami. I asked TAG if that would result in any problem.

They replied that "that would be fine, no problem". They said that the Melbourne office was falling under Brevard County which admittedly had to go by the directions of Tallahassee. According to them, the Tag guys at Miami-Dade County may have a different process although in the same state!!

Finally, I went ahead and ordered an EVT-4000e from Electric Motorsport. Hopefully EVT America (Miami) should expedite the registration process which is likely to be done with in about ten days, as per Todd's suggestion. This kind of thing was already done for someone I know in Melbourne, who went through a lot of hassle here earlier (he bought at Electric Motorsport too).

More progress later,

Venky
EVT-4000e, Melbourne, FL

Venky

EVT 4000e Blue (13-Aug-2007)

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

George/GMan,
I couldn't find an EV display - all I found was one GEM being charged - see my last blog post: Scooting around Ann Arbor for more.
John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

`venky58,
Welcome to our V is for Voltage Community, that's strange for the EV 400e.

Note: The 4000e is DOT compliant and Street Legal in the U.S.A

4000e

LEGAL CONSIDERATONS FOR OPERATING YOUR NEW SCOOTER:

The 4000e reaches speeds up to 30 mph, placing it in the category of motor-driven cycle. Due to variances in laws from state to state, we recommend that all purchasers check with their Department of Motor Vehicles for local requirements.

Most US states require a regular driver's license to operate a 4000e on the roadway. However, a motorcycle license is not usually required. Check with your particular state for local requirements.

Each 4000e has a VIN number and is sold with a Manufacturers Certificate of Origin for legal registration. In most cases, the 4000e will need to be tagged and registered. The 4000e is Department of Transportation compliant and therefore "Street Legal".

Maybe you need to contact one of the Pruna brothers?

Stleride
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`

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George J Jones Jr
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

`jdh2550_1
Thanks, nice pictures. Seems you may be in a good location to start a EV Business.

Best Regards,
George J. Jones, Jr.
Domain Registrant/Co-Owner
visforvoltage.org
georgejjonesjr [at] visforvoltage.org

`

Best Regards,
George J. Jones, Jr.
Domain Registrant
visforvoltage.net

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

`jdh2550_1
We overlooked your Blog for a update to the XM-2000 by JDH: The Back Story & First Impressions in the X-Treme XM-2000 Collaborative Hand Books.
We also noticed a broken link caused when X-Treme XM-2000 was reconstructed and repaired it for you.

Today (July 25th, 2007) I got my X-Treme XM-2000. You can check out this XM-2000 thread for lots of details of the XM-2000.

We found a total of 3 Blog entries and added them to XM-2000 by JDH: 100+ miles and my first electrical fire. is that all of them, and are they in the correct order?

Cheers,
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jdh2550_1
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

Thanks - looks good. I must confess though that I don't really "grok" the overall layout of this site. What makes a forum vs. a blog? Where does the XM-2000 Club fit in? What exactly are these handbooks and how does one access them as a set of books rather than coming across individual pages within a book?

Don't take this as negative criticism - I'm happy to use the site as I've found it - but I just don't understand the organizing principles.

All the best,

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

`jdh2550_1,
Thank you, those are things we need to know.

I must confess though that I don't really "grok" the overall layout of this site.

We feel the same way, and are working on a way to improve it.

What makes a forum vs. a blog?

This question came up from day one and we're still wrestling with it.

Where does the XM-2000 Club fit in?

The XM-2000 Club was a idea that came from one of the XM-2000 owners. It's still just a experiment. The VIN problem was being discussed in several different post, and when it was finally resolved it was difficult to locate, since this was a problem only for XM-2000 owners the XM-2000 Club seem like the place to post the information rather than look through all the XM-2000 post. The XM-2000 threads become very long and some of the information posted was owner related questions to another owner and the same answer had been posted somewhere else in another thread.

What exactly are these handbooks and how does one access them as a set of books rather than coming across individual pages within a book?

Well it seems the location may be part of the problem, V is for Voltage Community Library located in the right side block, and viewers very seldom look at the right side block and there is no explanation what's in the V is for Voltage Community Library . What we are trying to do is create EV Collaborative Hand Books which would contain links to almost every page on the site that's related to that particular Handbook.
The EV Batteries Collaborative Hand Books is a good example.
Our answers are not intended to give a message of finality and we are not listening, nothing could be further from the truth, we are listening and trying to improve based on what our Community Members desire. We might not be able to accomplish everything, but we are trying.

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venky58
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

Dear Stleride,

Thanks for your suggestions.

My source in Melbourne informed me that he too thought Brevard County (where I live) would accept the EVT-4000e as it was DOT-compliant and street-legal throughout the USA.

But the registration guys here in Melbourne apparently said to him after he bought the EVT-4000e, that this was only FEDERALLY accepted, and that did not mean that it would be accepted in Florida state unless it went through the process (whatever that meant)!!!!

Which means that even if the paragraph (that you took from EVT-America's website in your message) was valid, it need not have been so at the state level!!

Meanwhile, I spoke with Fernando Pruna last Thursday. He informed me that as soon as he receives the documents (MCO and Bill of Sale) -- and Todd already told him that a set was coming there in the mail -- registration takes as less as 24 hours. All he wanted was a copy of my driving licence, which I e-mailed him. He admitted that it was strange the other counties in Florida in cities such as Tampa, etc were still not accepting the EVT-4000e and a number of customers had registration problems. And they had to take his help and register these at Miami-Dade County. According to him, that's how it is right now, and he was willing to ship the registration tag to me by express courier from Miami, at an extra price, if I needed to start riding ASAP.

Now the latest news -- EVT America has indeed received my EVT-4000e Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin and the Bill of Sale from Electric Motorsport last Friday. So hopefully, registration should be done with and sometime during this coming week, and I should start riding!!

Sincerely,

Venky

Venky

EVT 4000e Blue (13-Aug-2007)

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

` :)
Glad it seems to be working out for you. There are many EVT-4000e owners here, and they will be our next EV Club.

Stleride
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randy louie
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

I'm thinking about purchasing the xm 2000 and would like some feedback on its performance, etc....Also, has the MSO registration issue been resolved, specifically....are you able to register it as a moped in california, los angeles?

Thanks for the input everyone,

randy

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

``randy louie ,
Welcome to the V is for Voltage Community, I suggest you start with the X-Treme XM-2000 Collaborative Hand Books.

Peace Out,
Gman

What is your vision for the future our growing community?

Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

Hi, friends,

I'm happy to inform that my registration is now DONE! I have the tag and got that fixed behind my EVT-4000e yesterday. The registration is carried out, thanks to Fernando Pruna's help, at Miami-Dade County.

Florida doesn't require me to insure, but I'm doing so for peace of mind. While researching, can you believe the following?

EVT-4000e is LISTED with Progressive Insurance!

Thanks for all your wonderful suggestions!!

Venky
EVT 4000e Blue (13-Aug-2007)

Venky

EVT 4000e Blue (13-Aug-2007)

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration - EVT-4000e

`venky58,
Welcome to our V is for Voltage Community, glad to see every thng worked out for you. Now you can join our EVT 4000e Club and meet some other EVT 4000e owners.
Be sure to post a picture on your new EVT 4000e and keep us updated on how it's working for you.

Stleride
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`

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Knowmad
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

I am in NC and am interested in the EVT-4000e. I would like to know if anyone has purchased on in NC. I would like to ride it as a moped. Title, tags, inspection, drivers license is not required for a moped. There is nothing in the NC laws that I can find about a limit to Watts. I did see on another site (not Federal) that the federal law said it is a moped if it does not exceed 750 watts. Is that true?

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

`Knowmad,
Welcome to the V is for Voltage Community, the Federal 16 CFR Part 1512 should have nothing to do with NC.
Mopeds:

North Carolina law defines a moped as a vehicle with two or three wheels with a motor of no more than 50 cubic centimeters of piston displacement and no external shifting device. Legally, a moped? top speed cannot exceed 20 mph. Although some mopeds on the market have top speeds higher than the 20 mph limit, they are illegal for use in North Carolina. Be sure you know a moped? size and maximum speed before you buy it. Otherwise, you maynot be able to operate it legally. In North Carolina you must be at least 16 years old and wear a helmet to operate a moped on a public roadway or public vehicular area. The same DWI laws that apply to the drivers of other motor vehicles also apply to moped opera-tors. When riding a moped on a public roadway you must follow all the rules of the road.

You must be age 16 or older to operate a moped on North Carolina highways or public vehicular areas. A driver's license is not required, and the moped does not have to be registered, inspected or covered by liability insurance. A motorcycle safety helmet is required by law when operating a moped on North Carolina highways. A moped cannot have a motor of more than 50 cubic centimeters, an external shifting device or have the capability of exceeding 30 miles per hour on a level surface.

Peace Out,
Gman

What is your vision for the future our growing community?

Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman

Knowmad
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Last seen: 16 years 8 months ago
Joined: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 11:39
Points: 2
Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Thanks Gman. I saw the same thing about "top speed of 20mph" and then another spot that said "exceeding 30mph" very confusing. Also I could find nothing about electric scooters or Watts. I called the DMV about velomobiles but that was no help at all. they did not care about the watts but thought it should be registered because it had three wheels. I have lived with red tape all my life (52 yrs old). I want to get some electric vehicles where I do not need to register, tags, a driver's license, insurance, and no gas. Seems like it can be done but I do not want cops always stoping me. maybe I will have the wife register to get tags but then ride as a moped.

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