Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

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kringle777
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Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

I've been trying to get my X-treme XM-2000 registered at the California DMV so I can get a license plate and I've been running into problems. Wondering what everybody else has done.

The workers at the DMV told me that I needed to have a second VIN tag somewhere on the scooter to match the first one. Couldn't find one. They also said that I'd need a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (like a title paper). One didn't come with the purchase, and I've got a call into X-treme about obtaining one.

I'm sure it's just lack of enough exposure to these types of vehicles that makes it seem that most of the DMV people don't know what they're talking about. I began by explaining that it was an electric Vespa-type vehicle that went 45 MPH. The first guy asked me why I was bothering to even register it, because it was a moped. The second person insisted that the 2nd VIN tag would be on the engine block, somewhere behind one of the fairings. I was like, "Hello? I said it was electric. No engine...." The third person got down and hunted all around for the tag and then proclaimed "Oh well, you're going to have to take it to the CHP (highway patrol) and get them to verify the VIN or reissue new VIN tags." I called twice on the DMV phone help line and was told different things as well. So they're not inspiring much confidence from me.

What I'd like to know from you folks with E-Max's and similar is how you're registered (especially in CA). I wouldn't mind registering it as an under 30 MPH moped, I don't care. I have a class M1 license, so I can drive any two or three wheeled vehicle legally, but I'd like a license plate so I won't draw any undue attention from a cop behind me.

I saw that the GreenEMotor website (with the E-Runner 220 identical scooter) says to fill in form 230 with the VIN number, check the boxes saying it's a moped, and mail a check for $17 and that's it. On the phone, I was told that I'd still have to bring the scooter down to the DMV for VIN tag and MSO paper verification, even if it was to be registered as a moped.

How has everybody else gotten their plates? Came with the scooter? Mailed the form in? Riding with no plates? What's the secret?

I'm still waiting to here back from X-treme about what they say about it. Their other technical type support has been speedy and helpful so far, but maybe the upcoming holiday is throwing a wrench in the works.

kringle777

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

When I bought my EVT from electricmotorsport, I think there was just a little form to fill out to register as a moped, I don't quite recall.

When I got insurance, the agent checked the VIN, but that's the only time anyone has ever looked at the VIN.

Jenn
Yellow EVT 4000e
Santa Clara, CA

Yellow EVT 4000e
Santa Clara, CA

greatguru
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

When I got my Voloci, it came with a Certificate of Origin, and registration was a piece of cake (even though it took them 45 minutes, he) - they didn't even want to see the bike (which I had hauled all the way to DMV in the trunk of my sedan). VIN was just a sticker in the battery compartment.

I suspect you need X-treme to produce the certificate.

Btw, I ordered an XM-2000, too, so I'll have your problem in a short while, too, I guess. :-)

Markus

XM-2000, Voloci, custom electric bicycle
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Hey guys,

Just got notified of this thread. I'm sending an email to X-Treme as well to see what answers I can pull out of them. From what I've heard before is that you may have to get X-Treme to fax the MSO if it doesn't come with the XM-2000.

I'll see what answers I get and will post them here, ASAP.

Also, someone asked for a copy of the owners' manual; I'm still waiting for that one as well.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

kringle,

I had the same experience as Jenn, bought my EVT 4000e from Electric Motorsport (Todd provided the MSO), sent in a form from the web and a check for about $26.00, and received a moped plate and a refund check for the extra amount. Todd told me to send a check for a bit more as the fees change and a refund was easier than sending additional payment. I believe it was actually $21.00 to register as a moped, but not sure. The EVT has the VIN on the frame as well as the motor. This is an advantage of working with an experienced dealer with an established product.

Hey Jenn, good to see you on the Forums!

-Crusher300
Silver EVT 4000e (60 volt) San Mateo, CA

-Crusher300
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kringle777
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Thanks for the information so far.
I'm tempted to try to just register it by mail as a moped. As long as they don't need to look at it personally, they'll never know the difference.

As for the XM-2000 manual, I photocopied it and created a .pdf just now. I've emailed it to one of the moderators, so maybe it'll make it up to the forum. It's somewhat crude, but it'll do until X-Treme creates a .pdf version of their own.

kringle777

kringle777
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

The "second VIN" is an engine number, and one of the things the CHP will want to inspect is that engine number. There probably isn't one in this case and I don't know what the CHP will do. I've heard others say the MSO is extremely important and you're basically out of luck without one.

You say "it's a motorcycle that goes 45". If true that puts it in a different class than the EVT which the other responders on this thread are talking about. The CA code has two classes ... moped, max speed of 30 miles/hr, and motorcycle, max speed above 30 miles/hr. For some reasons three wheel electric motorcycles cannot go more than 45 miles/hr, very confusing. Oh, and a farm tractor is not a three wheel motorcycle, but I digress.

I actually don't have experience with this paperwork. I bought my EVT used from Todd and he'd already registered it.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

` ;)
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

I never told them it was a "motorcycle" that went 45. I just said it was a "Vespa-type vehicle". I thought about it before I went up to the counter at the DMV. When you say "scooter", they think of a skateboard with a pole. When you say "moped", they think of one of those sturdy ebikes with pedals. So, I figured if I said it was an electric Vespa-type vehicle, surely they'd be able to visualize that. They still didn't make the distinction that it was technically a motorcycle until I reminded them of it.

I'd rather just register it as a moped if I can get away with it by doing it by mail. One time fee, no hassles, etc. It's got a button that I have to push to make it go 45. If I don't push that button, I'm stuck at 25. It reminds me of everybody else here who has a modified super duper E-Max or Lepton or whatever that can go 40+ MPH. Seems to me that we're the same--I just paid for the mod upfront. After all, it's the same body and controls and everything else that is used for the slower version as well.

Am I just rationalizing my impending flauting of the laws of the land?

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

kringle777
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

` :?
There was a California Motorcycle Handbook file share here, but we had to remove it and a copy here now if anyone needs it. As soon as we get some time we would like to do all the States the same way.
It's obvious why we started with CA, that seems to be where the most question are coming from,

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PJD
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

The e-max came with MCO that originally was printed on cheap photocopy paper and was no good. Then through the efforts of Larry in Austin we finally got those shady characters in Germany to understand that it has to be on real watermarked certificate paper.

Here in Pennsylvania, laws for two-wheeled vehicles are probably among the most sensible:
http://www.dot10.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-momo.pdf

Vehicles in Pennsylvania are registered through mom-and-pop "notary agents" who can bend the rules a bit compared to a someone working directly for the state. So, as far as it being electric, we just simply checked the boxes for "less than 50 cc" (which it is - the exact number being zero) and "not more than 5 HP" (which it was before my mods), and "automatic transmission" (so automatic there's not one at all!). I then get handed a motorcycle plate. This is supposed to result in a motor-driven-cycle registration, and because it has less than 50cc and automatic transmission, I don't need a motorcycle operators license. It is supposed to be inspected, but I've yet to see a motorcycle here with an inspection sticker anywhere, so I don't know how it is enforced.

As far as the VIN, the e-max has it on the DOT certification plate on the inside of the front plastic fairing, and on an embossed metal plate on the lower rear corner of the largest battery box, right hand side.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

That's too funny! You're right, technically you fall under all those thresholds. It's the people making these laws up who aren't doing their homework, or are failing to ask the right questions, or aren't keeping up with the times.
At least you folks can halfway figure things out. These people here can't seem to fathom the idea of "no engine". Look at the back wheel, numbnut, there's your "engine". And the pictures of their "scooter" (which they define differently from a moped) has a seat and looks like a moped to me. So, I think they need to get it figured out one of these years.
I'll keep looking for that second VIN, thanks for the idea.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

kringle777
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Why not get a metal stamping kit and stamp the VIN into a soft part of the motor yourself? they'd be none the wiser.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Take it to CHP and let one of them take it for a test ride.

Copied this from API:

The XM-2000 has a VIN number and comes with an MSO paper that is needed to register it at a DMV office however at this time it can be registered some states only including California & Florida as we are working on the VIN number issues with the other states. Anyone wanting to purchase the XM-2000 can do so for $1600.00 instead of $1999.00 until we resolve the VIN number issue which is expected to be done by June 30, 2007. We can send you the correct MSO after you have the bike and after we receive the new correct papers.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

`
We posted all that information when the XM-2000 thread, our longest so far thread started, and it really surprised me people where buying them so quickly. It's last years model, with a weak shift. The current year model is suppose to be improved, and my sample quote for the new 2500 watt model is still way lower than the so call sale price because of the VIN number issue.
There is also a serious possibility, your VIN number may be also used on many others sold, it has often happen. You may be buying something with a VIN number that has been reported stolen, and not only will you loose it, you could get a free vacation courtesy of the State.
Buyer Beware, stay tuned to the V is for Voltage Network for the latest news in this Saga.

Peace Out,
Gman

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

The ones I sell are the 2007 models. If you think you can get a better deal on the XM-2000, price/condition, send me an email, we'll do business. I'm wanting to shy away from my present distributor so maybe this would help.

As for a copied/stolen VIN, sounds like a chicken little story to me. Let's see some proof.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

I don't think that there's any doubt the the next years model will improve. All products are like that.

I also think that the VIN tag issue will sort itself out. The same scooters are being sold by multiple companies, and the way the vast majority are dealing with it is to limit the speed so it can't be registered as a motorcycle.

I'd like to see 2 VIN tags on a Zapino, or a GreenEMotor E-Runner, or a MaxxStar USA, or whatever else is out there. They'll eventually figure out what they need to do to sell them here in the US and get it done. And most likely that'll be on next years model too.

But in the meantime, I can go down to the CHP and apply for new VIN tags if they require two and I can't find the 2nd one (so says the DMV). I'm not going to do that for this scooter, however, because it's too much trouble.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

kringle777
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Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

`
I'm just passing along what I was told by Mountain Chen, the new models that he calls the Cowboy, has been out awhile and it's 2500 watts. It's pretty easy to say the model is 2007, or even 2008 no one really knows.
He sold them to X Treme, so I figured he should know. He just calls then newer and older, he actually never said a year,
If and when X Treme ever starts selling the newer models, they will have to offer a bigger discount on the older models.
The business stuff is off topic, and not really appropriate to discuss here.
My What would your ideal E Scooter/ Motorcycle look like? and the others are just the first step in a future vision I have for our V is for Voltage Community, more latter.

Peace Out,
Gman

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

I just called X-Treme and spoke to a person in the Customer Care department. She said that there had been a mixup on the VIN tag and MSO paper issue and that they would be sending out replacements to everyone who had purchased one so far. The MSO papers they had been given were originally not printed on security paper (like the E-Max's) and the VIN tags might have been invalid (GMan's right on that one). So they planning on sending out replacements in this next week to everyone who purchased XM-2000's so they can register at will.

She was surprised that the DMV here in CA was wanting to see 2 VIN tags. She had not heard about that one. So, at least I gave her a heads up on it so she won't be blindsided if the issue comes up.

She was also surprised that somebody could (at least here in CA) register it as a moped and get away with not producing the MSO paper or VIN verification.

Apparently they are in Iowa and she said it's been difficult reconciling all the different state laws involved. She was really nice about everything, and apparently had my name right in front of her on a list of buyers (she referred to my purchase), so I didn't get the feeling that she was just blowing smoke.

Maybe I'll hold off on my plan to register it as a moped. I don't want an invalid VIN tag getting associated with my scooter.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

kringle777
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Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

` :?
kringle777,
I'm sure someone from X Treme is reading this and other threads here, We're # 4 on Google with X-Treme XM-2000, that's some power we can use to the advantage of the whole EV Community.
On three everybody say cheese.

Peace Out,
Gman

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

I'm second on that search result. :)

Anyone notice the third one? Listed "X-Treme XM-2000 Gas Moped". Even their webmasters lack attention to detail. :jawdrop:

Gman, I'd like to know where you got your information:

There is also a serious possibility, your VIN number may be also used on many others sold, it has often happen. You may be buying something with a VIN number that has been reported stolen, and not only will you loose it, you could get a free vacation courtesy of the State.

If this Chen guy is telling you this, then we have a problem with Chen (something tells me his first name is not "Mountain"). If you have another source, I think we'd all like to know it. Unless you're just blowing smoke.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

` :?
Most everyone that's a regular here knows his name is Mountain Chen, just do a search on the site http://visforvoltage.org/search/node/Mountain+Chen to start,
Since I still think about becoming a Dealer one day, I do a lot of research, and am establishing some relationships in China. If there is something that I learn that I feel should not be posted, like the price etc. I won't post that, but I usually do a word ford word, even use the broken English.
Once I asked how many Watts would a Controller handle among other questions. I got everything I asked for, with a question of what handle did I need?
So I try to post it word for word, and readers can decide what was said. Somewhere I think I made a mistake, and said the 3000 watt had a speed of 146 MPH, I can't find it yet, but the 146 is correct, just have to add some numbers in front of it, like 68.350 831 146 mile/hour.
* Max Speed : 110 Km/h (110 kilometer/hour = 68.350 831 146 mile/hour, now someone was very sharp with this one, what do you think you see in a hurry, 146 mile/hour?

BTW, X Treme does sell Gas Scooters, there is one in my neighborhood, the daughter has electric XB-508, and Mother and Father have X Treme Gas Scooters and they all look the same.

The VIN problem was often talked about on the old site, fellow in CA found out the same VIN was also listed in NY, CA wouldn't register it.

Peace Out,
Gman

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

My source on Chen:


Mujin Chen.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

` ;)
Same person. ZAP Hires Quality Control Manager in China

Peace Out,
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

I'd love to buy and ride an xm-2000, but I'm in Massachusetts. I can't find any info on when it might be available for registration here -- anyone have any idea of when that might be?

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

``mrb188 ,
Welcome to the V is for Voltage Community, have you checked with your Massachusetts DMV yet?

Stleride
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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Sent and received email from customer service:

Could you give me instructions that I can pass on to my customers as to how to register the XM-2000 in California. I've two customers now in different cities who are having problems with the DMV and neither had their "Manufacturer's Statement of Origin" sent with the moped.
Any info would be helpful, thanks.

We are supposed to be getting new VIN plates and MCO's hopefully in this week that we can send to the customer's that have purchased the XM-2000 so they can register them. The one's that came originally with the scooter are incorrect. Cathy is in contact with the company that is supposed to be sending them. So once we get them we will send them to the customer so they can be registered.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

` ;)
Thank you for the update, can you keep us in the loop?
What about other States?

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Hi,

What's the latest on this? I'm ready to buy an XM-2000 if I can get a VIN and an MSO (aka MCO).

Thanks,
John H.
EV Wannabe
Ann Arbor, MI

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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Re: Scooter and Moped DMV Registration

Registration/VIN/MSO update.

X-Treme will be sending out this information/paperwork to all the XM-2000 customers as soon as they get their stuff together. From what I can tell they received wrong information from somewhere and are working on the problem.:

"[We're] in the process of getting the MSO papers filled out to the new VIN
plates that we got. As soon as they're done we will be sending them out to
the customers that have the XM-2000."

There are now existing problems with registration in Florida until this issue is solved.

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www.BaseStationZero.com

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[size=1][color=black]www.[/color][color=#337799]BaseStationZero[/color][co

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