X - Treme XM - 2000 (Continued)

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chas_stevenson
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X - Treme XM - 2000 (Continued)

X-Treme XM-2000 (Continued)
From post [node:1478]

ArcticFox,

I realize you are no longer offering the XM-2000 because of the packaging problems but I was wondering if you ever received the paperwork you were promised. I hope the company did not leave you hanging that would be a shame after all you did to help sell their product. I for one am happy we have someone like you here on the site, if a few more distributors were as open and honest as you this might be a better world for all. Integrity is not easy to come by these days it seems everyone is looking for the all mighty buck.

Chas S.

Hey thanks Chas,

I'm used to being screwed in the name of a dollar. I'm flat-out sick of it, too. I have to earn a living and pay bills, but damnit I've got morals that say I can't step on others to get ahead. I see this type of treatment all over the place and I try my best to be a filter for it when it gets passed down to my customers (or family/ friends/ neighbors/ coworkers). Is it hurting me not to openly sell these? Yep, most of the income I get from BaseStationZero comes from the XM-2000 alone. But if my customers know what to expect before they buy, I won't get surprise emails later on. People have already contacted me about the XM-2000, I think mainly because of my price. I end up telling them the whole story with links to this site showing them exactly what's going on. Some I've lost sales with, others have still bought them more readily, possibly because everything was out in the open and we all knew what to expect. I might put the page back up, but with something that tells it all.

As far as any paperwork; none at all. I don't ask for it any more. If it comes, I'll forward the info to everyone as soon as I get it. I don't quite think they're leaving me hanging, more like (I'm hoping) they're doing what they can to fix a problem in another country. Language barriers, legal systems, paperwork in correct grammar... something, but they're working on it (I'm hoping). I haven't heard back from California's Attorney General about the VINs yet, but I have been getting replies from the distributor saying all that's happening is an incorrect VIN is being replaced with a correct one and this is being done for total compliance with all states' laws. But I'm still a bit uneasy about my customers having to do that. There's always some holier-than-thou officer of the law who wants to be a "Richard Cranium".

I'm still looking for other scooter brands to sell (drop ship).

Count me in as a member of the ArcticFox appreciation club ;) - I'm glad to be dealing with someone so open and honest. I know what I'm getting into and I'll find out the details tomorrow around noon (when my XM-2000 is due to be delivered).

BTW - based on what I've heard about the batteries I decided to order some PowerCheq battery balancing modules - for a 5 battery system you need 4 modules at $60 each. Not cheap - but they're supposed to improve the life and the performance of the battery pack.

I plan on commuting 12 miles each way so my batteries will be getting a decent workout.

John H.
EV Wannabe
Ann Arbor, MI

Just thought Id let some folks know, Progressive will insure electric scooters, pretty inexpensively too! I insured my panterra fusion with them for 75 bucks a year. $95 with uninsured motorist coverage.

I ordered an XM-2000, and will b e getting it soon, I expect. Will report back an how it goes.

Greetings Raynman75006,

Welcome to our V-is-for-Voltage Community!

Our [node:995] is a great resource for finding more information about the XM-2000 and more.

Welcome Aboard!

VT-01
Moderator Team

Moderators are dedicated volunteer V Team members who help keep your V Forums running smoothly and provide Forum Support.

`jdh2550_1 ,

BTW - based on what I've heard about the batteries I decided to order some PowerCheq battery balancing modules - for a 5 battery system you need 4 modules at $60 each. Not cheap - but they're supposed to improve the life and the performance of the battery pack.

Are your Batteries SLA or Silicone? :?

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

`FYI,
Also see [node:410] for additional information.

Stleride
Moderator Team Captain

Moderators are dedicated volunteer V Team members who help keep your V Forums running smoothly and provide Forum Support.

GMan - They are 12V 38Ah Silicone batteries.
Stlerid - I read that - which is why I decided on the PowerCheqs.

My scooter arrived today - and I was one of the lucky ones - no shipping damage (some very slight scuffing on the front right panel and the throttle end cap). I probably won't even bother asking for scuff free panels (a) you have to look really close & (b) my other m/c is already bearing some scars (I'm more into riding than looking good!)

One of the brake light switches seems to be permanently on - the brake light is lit and I get the 3 flashes on the diagnostic LED. No big deal - I'll fiddle with it later - and if I can't correct it I'll submit a support ticket to Extreme.

Also, the charger says it has an output voltage of 73V DC - mine is a 60V scooter. Will I damage the batteries if I hook it up? I'll put in a ticket for that as well.

Oh yeah - and I need the infamous MSO and corrected VIN. Ticket #3.

However - it's raining! Thunderstorms to be exact - so I'm still waiting to take it out on the road.

All in all I'm very happy with things so far. I'll keep you posted when I get to ride it (I'm watching the radar image over at weatherunderground.com !

Thanks to cheapfun, kringle777 and greatguru for your very informative posts and to ArticFox for being a very open and honest vendor. You all helped make this happen - thanks!

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

John,
Welcome to the little XM-2000 club we have going here. I'm glad yours arrived relatively unscathed. You'll have to let us know what you think once the weather clears.

As for the brake light, are you talking about the diagnostic light on the instrument panel? That stays on, and lets you know that the scooter is on. The 3 flashes happens only when you are applying the brakes. It's normal. Part of what you're doing is shutting off the motor at that point and applying the regenerative brake system--I think. Speaking of brakes, I'm about to take the front wheel off and apply some brake quiet goop to the back of the brake pads. They'll growling a bit. Also be aware that you might need to regrease the speedometer gear assembly like GreatGuru and I have do so far (for the clicking noise).

On another note, I just went today and got insurance for my XM-2000. I have State Farm and my agent said that they will do these as add-ons to other insurance carried through them. It's considered a motorcycle to them (they consider them cars or motorcycles, not other finely detailed sub-categories). He didn't care that it wasn't registered yet, he didn't mind that the VIN might change because what I had was what was known at the time of the insurance was issued and can be changed later. He didn't mind whether it's going to be registered as a moped or a motorcycle either--to them, it's not so much that I'm going to hit somebody, it's more that somebody is going to hit me. They did the watt-to-horsepower conversion and said it came out to a 2.6 HP motor and on the form he arbitrarily chose 10 cc as the engine size because he had to put something there.

So, if I insisted on the minimal insurance coverage, it'd only be $4 a month. But because I want to be insured for uninsured motorist and protect myself pretty decently, it's gonna be $23 a month (that's for 250|500|100 coverage). That's a bit more than I was figuring it was going to be, but at least I'm protected if somebody hits me.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

Hi Kringle,

I've started a blog: [node:1451] - I've posted some more commentary over there.

Yep - I found out that the 3 flashes also comes on if the side stand (but not the center stand) is down.

My big news is that I've successfully registered it as a moped here in Michigan:

registered.jpg

So far I'm happy! :D

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

Earlier in these posts there was a question regarding cost per mile to operate the xm-2000.

Based on my fluctuating kw costs for the past year in Northern Virginia, and assuming the xm-2000 has a range of 30 miles at 20 mph and a reduced range of 15 miles at 40 mph then it will cost between .004 (4/10'ths) of a cent (based on my lowest kw cost at lowest speed) to .011 (1 and 1/10'th) of a cent per mile to operate (at my higher kw cost and higher speed).

I would estimate that these numbers could range from 1/4 cent per mile to no more than 2.5 cents per mile based on rider weight, speed, terrain.

Your costs would go up slightly if you leave your charger plugged in when not in use charging the bike.

Costs per mile for gas at $2.85 gallon
60 mpg .0475 cents per mile (4 and 3/4 cents)
20 mpg .1425 cents per mile (14 and 1.4 cents)
Range unlimited ($)
Recharge time 10 minutes
**A 150 mpg gas scooter is competitive with the xm-2000 re cost per mile.

For short local trips you cant beat the price of electric.

My kw costs vary based on season and kw use schedule, the more I use the less I pay per kw. I have electric heat so in the Winter I pay less for kw because I use three times as much as in Summer.
.0529 per kw
.0717 per kw

` :)
I like what your doing, can we all just use the cost per kw of our own individual [node:1046] as a guide?
Actually that's the main reason I posted it.
Can you work something out in xls using the [node:1046] where member only need to plug in there per kw hour cost?

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

And for those anal types the just HAVE to know EXACTLY what it costs to operate, get a kwh meter and plug your charger into it. Cheapest is 60 bucks, I am looking for cheaper, UK has same type for 19 euros whatever that is in REAL money. I may get one, would be cool to actually have REAL data to back up these claims.

http://www.powermeterstore.com/index.php?cPath=112

` ;)
I looked at something similar some time ago, but figured it was probably a waste of money, unless your tracking your actual cost to compare it to something else. The Petrol Scooter group here StLscooter was saying both operational cost were similar when you add in the cost to produce the electricity. They also wanted better range of 50 miles minimum since they take group rides out of town. I was welcome to join them if I had a long extension cord, so I didn't pursue it any further. When the [node:671] was announced, I posted a link, never got a reply I don't think.
If I ever think about becoming a Dealer again, it would be some nice information to have, right now I just use the 5 cents per charge figure we see advertised everywhere. It sounds good until they ask about range and speed, then it's "Have a nice day".
How about $21.99? Shipping: * $5.99 USA, $9.99 Canada (shipping via USPS First Class Mail & AirMail Letter Post respectively)
kill_a_watt_new.jpg
While your at it get a timer, there are plenty of stories including from me, where these so call Smart Charges cooked perfectly good Batteries even the famous Soneil. Check out the [node:1323]

I didn't have a Soneil, just the model that came with my E Scooter, and it once got my Batteries so hot I couldn't touch them, I should have learned my lesson then and purchased a cheap timer, now that I've probably done the same thing on a brand new 48 volt set of B&B EB12-12 Batteries. Just before the problem started I noticed my Main Battery case was warm, and they had not been charging longer than about 4 hours. A cheap portable timer, since I was not at home at the time, would have saved me the $192.00 plus tax new replacement CSB-Battery EVH 12150. will cost.

Peace Out,
Gman

Can someone PLEASE verify the top speed with a GPS? I'm not saying you are reporting misinformation; I'm just a little skeptical. The emax 2000w from what I understand could barely do 35 mph on the flat.

Is it possible the posted specs are way off? Could the controller be more like 100+ amps, and the motor putting out more like 3,000 watts peak?

From this calculator:
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

2,000 watts (and perfect conditions) gets you 41.1 mph on a mountain bike.

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here

` :?
FWIW

jdh2550_1
I just got an XM-2000 which is labeled "E-Runner 220" on the front panels.

vinnie_basile
I have also noticed the XM-2000 with the e-runner 220 sticker

May explain the VIN/MSO problem?

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

GMan - I actually doubt that's the problem with the VIN. The same manufacture made the scooters for E-Runner and then sold them to X-Treme to rebadge them. It's still the same manufacturer so the VIN shouldn't need to change. The MSO represents the origin of the vehicle and that too hasn't changed just because someone else slapped their badge on it...

Andrew - I'll check the speed soon and I'll also check the power characteristics (I have a PakTrakr which I'm going to wire up). However I'm pretty confident that the speed is pretty close to correct - I'd expect to be within 5mph of the actual speed at the top end (which would be 38mph instead of the 43mph(ish) I've seen on the speedo). I've been paced by another scooter (a 150cc and he confirmed my speed). As far as comparisons to other models remember that top speed is also governed by maximum voltage because a DC motor has a fixed RPM per volt with no load. Of course, you also need enough power when running it under load. So, what was the voltage of the two models you're comparing the XM-2000 with?

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

GMan,

Thanks for the Kill A Watt lead - I just ordered one. PakTrakr, PowerCheqs, Kill A Watt...

At this rate I'll end up having spent more on "doo dads" than on the scooter itself... ;)

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

I just got my XM-2000 in the mail and I was all-around pleased with it. I top out at about 43 mph (on its own speedometer, dont know how to test it otherwise, any ideas?). But it feels like 43 mph. I run with 40 mph traffic, fine and people usually go a litle faster than the speed limit here.

I drove it right out of the delivery place, even left the box behind. It was fully charged and rode great. Its a pretty sturdy, solid feeling scooter and appears to be much better quality than my other 4 panterra fusions that I have been riding for about 6 months now.

There were absolutely no scratches or scrapes on mine from delivery. No damage that i could find at all! so after reading some of your posts, i was very pleased about that.

Gonna try to register it here in AZ soon. I will update you all on how that goes. But by and large, so far, I think this is a great buy for the money.

Oh and the blue one looks sharp!

For those of you saying that this scooter cant do the speed, im not sure if you are correct. My panterra fusions claim to be able to do about 29 mph, but end up doing about 26. Still, they are only 750 watts. the XM-2000 is leaps and bounds beyond it. Im not surprised it will do about 43. I was hoping for closer to 50, but ill take above 40 ;)


Please continue to post to this thread. Sorry for the problems we had with locating the continuation of the XM-2000 thread.

neovolt
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Re: X - Treme XM - 2000 (Continued)

Speaking of the cost per mile, and following up on the calculations of usatracy above... how much does it cost to replace all batteries on this model and/or similar scoots? :?

I am new here and considering the electric for my 1.5 miles daily ride to and from work.
:)

jdh2550_1
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Re: X - Treme XM - 2000 (Continued)

List price on the batteries is $129 (shipping included) and there are 5 batteries.

If you charge every night (rather than waiting for the batteries to discharge) then they should last longer than their approx. 400 cycle rating and you should get several years from them.

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

Gman
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Re: X - Treme XM - 2000 (Continued)

``neovolt,
Welcome to our V is for Voltage Community. Interesting point

how much does it cost to replace all batteries on this model and/or similar scoots?

I have several figures, but they are all FOB China. I was told they can't be shipped by air, so it's the slow delivery way. There was also a person that was offering them at cost for some kind of test somewhere on here.
Since all of you seem to be acting sort of together, it might be better to get a quantity quote, I just need a figure and a port.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman

capman
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Re: X - Treme XM - 2000 (Continued)

My big news is that I've successfully registered it as a moped here in Michigan

jdh - how did you do it? Michigan defines a moped as not being capable of more than
30 MPH. I'm very curious as how you dealt with that.

jdh2550_1
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Re: X - Treme XM - 2000 (Continued)

Easy - I just went in and said "I want to register my moped". They asked me no questions. I told them no lies.

Also, it seems that they don't enforce the top speed requirement that rigidly - this is the spec for a Vespa LX 50:
Max power at shaft: 3.1 kW at 8,750 rpm
Max torque: 3.5 Nm at 6,500 rpm
Max speed: 39 mph (62 km/h)

They give LX 50's moped status - and my XM is very close to that spec. It appears to be the same for most other 50cc "mopeds".

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

Oliver
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Re: X - Treme XM - 2000 (Continued)

:?
This long running thread seems to have died, over a month and no new post?

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