XM-2000 Charging Costs

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jdh2550_1
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XM-2000 Charging Costs

Hi,

I rode my XM-2000 down to red today - although it wasn't cutting out yet. According to my Kill A Watt power meter it just took about 8 hours and 2.05 kWh to bring it back to full charge (as indicated by the charger). This seems believable.

The max capacity of the XM is 38 Ah * 60 V = 2.28 kWh However, if I understand things correctly
(a) you'll never get all 2.28 kWh out as usable motor torque
(b) the charger will take more than 2.28 kWh to do a full charge
(c) you're only supposed to discharge batteries down to 80% DOD (1.824 kWh)

So it's nigh on impossible to figure this out on paper - that's why it's more effective to measure the power in and the range achieved. Now that I have a full charge I'm at a known starting point. I'll ride 12 miles to work, plug in the Kill A Watt and charger, then I'll ride home and plug in the Kill A Watt and charger. When back to fully charged I should have a reasonably accurate way of calculating my cost per mile. I'll post my results here and also on PJD's thread (didn't want to make that thread too much longer).

borgbike
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

What are your feelings about the quality of the charger? Somewhere recently a saw a photo of the charger with the bad English instructions on them. Did it really say to not leave the scooter plugged in after the charging period?

It seems like a hassle to plug a the bike in and then have to remember to unplug it 8 hours or so later. You'd think it would revert to some sort of trickle charge at some point so you wouldn't need to worry about cooking the batteries.

Also I wonder what the power consumption of the charger is with the bike not plugged in? Is there a significant phantom load?

Thanks for sharing and keep us posted?

Dave

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

Hi,

The charger seems fine. It does automatically switch to trickle charge when it decides the batteries are full - and I leave it on overnight and always come down to a green (trickle charge light).

I'll check on the no load and the trickle charge properties later - however, it does say on the charger not to plug in the charger without the charger being plugged into the bike.

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

Gman
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

` :?
There are several variables, the number of stops made, were there any inclines and what degree, any head wind, weight and probably a few more that I missed.
I'm not sure about Silicone Batteries, but SLA I've read never run them below 80%, and normally that's somewhere in the yellow, running them into the red causes problem to begin.
On the charger thing, I believe my Owners Manuel also said something similar, but I figured since it was a so called Smart Charger, it knew more the the Scooter manufacture. Well after heating up several set of SLA Batteries, the last set no good after about a month. It's much cheaper to use a timer and wait, unless it's somewhere where you'll be leaving or can turn if off after a hour or so.
From now on I'm following the advice given here by rgx.
I'm actually kind of surprised know one has actually explained it like that earlier. I believe most of us start off taking our Batteries for granted, and do a lot of hidden damage to them, when they start failing, then we get concerned. They are probably the weakest link over time in the whole chain, we just want to hurry up and recharge them quickly, or just neglect them while they are charging. My brand new set of 4 B & B EB12-12 Battries I noticed got warm while charging only a few hours, just before I started having problems. Since I was normally charging them on board, I never made a practice of touching them, this time there was no extension card available so I removed them and took them inside to charge.
Everything runs find the first year, and then Winter comes and they just sit connected to the charger for months, when spring arrives is when you start noticing your range and power seem to be decreasing.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman

RotoryMike
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

Thanks for the heads up on the XM-2000 I would like to purchase one, but I'm confused as to where to purchase it.

Who's the most reptuable dealer or manufacturer and ships out quick?

Thanks

Mike

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

ArcticFox at http://www.BaseStationZero.com

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

andrew
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

and then Winter comes and they just sit connected to the charger for months,

I don't think this is a good idea for any batteries. If the voltage is just high enough to cause any gassing than they will dry out pretty quick because of the small amount of electrolyte. I wouldn't leave a charger specially designed with for floating the batteries on for more than a day, unless you are trying to recover a bad battery. SLAs are fine sitting untouched for at least 6 months as long as they are charged up to 100% before taking them off the charger. They self discharge at a much slower rate than flooded lead-acid, which is why they don't need to be charged about once a month like a starter battery would.

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri

Gman
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

` :(
Now you tell me.
Do you know anything about stack charging? You charge for a day, let them sit for the same period, and just keep doing the cycle.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman

andrew
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

I really don't think that is necessary, and may be harmful if the charger causes the batteries to gas. If there is some residual load on the batteries than I would put them on the charger for an hour or two every week. The main thing is they need to be at 100% SOC before you let them sit for a long period. Even a very small load can drain them dead in a month. It wouldn't be a bad idea to unplug either the main positive or negative from the battery pack if you plan to let the scooter sit for a long time.

My Zivan NG1 72v charger for $420 doesn't cut off at end of charge and keeps pulsing the batteries. If I left it on it wouldn't take long to destroy the batteries. I wouldn't trust a $50 Soneil to supply exactly the right float voltage, especially with no temperature compensation.

A timer cutoff could be helpful. Intermatic makes some.

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri

RotoryMike
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

Is it just me but I cannot find a voice phone number on their web site??

kringle777
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

"Is it just me but I cannot find a voice phone number on their web site??"

Probably not, but ArcticFox (Chris) is always around here somewhere. And we all seem to have purchased our XM-2000's through him. He has a good price, answers questions promptly, and he's willing to go to bat for you if something goes wrong.

Now, due to some shipping damage problems from X-Treme(mine and others here all seem to have been very minor things), he took them off the website until the situation could be improved. But I believe he'll do a special order if you want it and are willing to take the risk of having some damage that will require parts sent out to you for you to replace. It's worked out for everybody so far, as far as I know.

So, I'd shoot him an email. He'll answer you quickly and get you going. Good luck!

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

RotoryMike
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

Thanks I'll drop him an email - can't understand for the life of me how someone can run a business without a land line. Even if you never have to call them, it's just nice to know you can.

Thanks

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM-2000 Charging Costs

I rode in to work and then did some errands around lunch time. Between the morning and lunchtime and then during the afternoon I was charging. When I came to ride home the green full light was on.

I rode 33.3 km indicated which is 30km actual (10% correction) which in turn is about 18.5 miles. My Kill A Watt meter read 1.82 kWh. So, for me (150lbs) and my ride (slight hills) and my riding style ("aggressive") I'm averaging around about 100 Wh per mile.

Detroit Edison charges me 0.05941 per kWh and a 0.04284 delivery charge (I wonder if it's cheaper if I pick it up myself? ;) )

So it's costing me 1.0225 cents per mile.

If I do around 100 miles a week on the scooter rather than in my car I'll use about $1 of electricity vs. $12 of gas (25 mpg and $3 per gallon). So I'm saving $11 a week, $44 a month or $264 in 6 months (figuring a 6 month riding season in Michigan - could be longer). Every 25 cent increase in gas price will save me another $1 per week.

Woo hoo! ;-) OK, so I'm not going to get rich (well not this way!)

John H.
Blue XM-2000
Ann Arbor, MI

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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