Vectrix Range Real World Record

Thank you kito for your support.

I'm really not concerned at all by taking pictures of a malfunctioning charging process. Warranty can't be void by taking pictures of the telltales and readings on the LCD display, only by doing your own work on the bike and I haven't done ANY. I haven't signed any NDA also. The readings on the LCD display are public and are not some sort of firmware hack to get them.

And while I'm at it. I've started charging from 7/17 bars and after two hours of charging it was just finishing the TR cycle. The battery temperature was at 37'C. It then began with the CC and temperature rose to 38'C. Wind behind the left shock absorber (looking the bike from the back) was warm and it was blowing gently. I disconnected the 220V plug to avoid another overheating.

I really don't know why it is so and I wish the solution would be found so that the battery could get fully charged, balanced and that I could use the full range of the last bar (that's 5 more kilometers).

To Vectrix-NH user: please restrain from unnecessary and unfounded threats. I have two lawyers in my family, no need for you to go there ;-)

As for your waratty as long as you do not go posting pic and vids on line. and telling everyone all the things you saw when you look at your bike . who will know . sometimes it best to keep quiet .

Hope you find your problem soon .

Happy riding , Herb

I hope I find it too. I must say I gained confidence in my bike today. I've driven fast (up to 90km/h) and the battery is getting better performing. However, the charging temperature will have to be resolved.

However I must disagree with you on the above point. This is a discussion forum where people help each other and I can show whatever pictures I want and get to keep my warranty until I start messing with bike's internals (which I'm not doing BTW).
/sarcasm on
Not posting pics and videos online? Keep quiet? Are you serious? Where do you live? China?
Are you telling me I should not talk about my problems? Or do you maybe want to tell me that it's ok to BATHOT the battery when charging? Or maybe it is ok to let the bike standing out at 5'C and that the BATHOT keeps for 6 hours?

I hope you let me show this pic from the GP NiMH tech manual:

/sarcasm off

Fixed for better understanding of what I tried to say.

Hi
Wow sorry .
I was refering pics of the inside of the bike .(Warratty Parts)
I was trying to say look under the seat . if the wire is off ,plug it in. No need to tell the dealer .
Mik is great and is the only one who post the internal pic.
My under standing Of mik void was the pics of the bike on it side . He never touch the area .the part died in, untill after they viod the warranty, And yes most people thought Mik would have won in court but at a cost of more then the bike . so he fixed it him self.
Now he it the one that post the pic here . others talk about what they do but mik post the pic of what other are talking about.

Sorry again .

Happy riding, Herb

Hi
Wow sorry .
I was refering pics of the inside of the bike .(Warratty Parts)
I was trying to say look under the seat . if the wire is off ,plug it in. No need to tell the dealer .
Mik is great and is the only one who post the internal pic.
My under standing Of mik void was the pics of the bike on it side . He never touch the area .the part died in, untill after they viod the warranty, And yes most people thought Mik would have won in court but at a cost of more then the bike . so he fixed it him self.
Now he it the one that post the pic here . others talk about what they do but mik post the pic of what other are talking about.

Sorry again .

Happy riding, Herb

Pics of the inside of the bike? I didn't make any of like that. My pics are only of the LCD and telltales displays.
I didn't look under the seat even though I'd really like to find out what's going on. I know what's at stake and I don't want to lose warranty in any way of doing my own rework.

Here is a link for the intrepid explorer:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2547-vectrix-reports#comment-13640

It has photos and explanations about the charging process.

The inlet grilles are clearly shown.

Are they maybe covered in dead bugs, AndY1?

Yes, I thoroughly read that. Very nice report indeed.

They are still clear as a new... and they are new ;-) The bike has been driven for only 5 days.

I really don't know what's going on. There is some suction at those grills and there is some warm wind blowing out in the back, at the left (looking the bike from behind) shock absorber. To bad I don't have a reference Vectrix bike so I could know how that suction looks like on a reference Vectrix.

These were taken last night. Sorry for the very bad quality. My mobile phone really is getting old:

This picture show the end of TR (after the CP). It's 5 seconds before the end of TR and the temperature rose to 37'C.

After that, the CC started. It was 1:56 since the charging started and the temperature is 38'C. This picture was taken 30 seconds later than the previous one:

Ambient temperature in the garage: 15'C.

I unplugged the 220V plug after taking the 2nd picture. No need for another overheating.

I've just plugged my Vectrix in to charge and had my wife comment that I had left the internal garage door open and the noise was annoying her...

AndY1, for reference, the noise of the fans during the charge process is significantly louder than any others you may hear, but the airflow from the underside of the bike is not as strong as I would have expected given the noise of those fans running (mine sits at around 26C in 22C ambient).

-Avron

I unplugged the 220V plug after taking the 2nd picture. No need for another overheating.

Try to do just a short ride without a BALPOR.

Then charge and watch what happens. You might find that very little heating occurs then.

I'm doing that since Monday night's charging/cooking, but it is getting hot anyway.
My next test run will involve the following:
1. Charge until 15/17 bars full
2. Let it rest through the night
3. Charge until the end of EC and watch the battery temperature

If the battery has one or more reduced capacity cells, which turn charging into heat, then this was the problem from the start. At my first charge ever, the initial battery temperature was at 14'C, ambient temperature was 10'C (I charged it outside) and it still managed to get quite hot. I don't remember the exact temperature at the end of charging, but I remember it being high. I remember it well because the battery was 8/17 charged when receiving the bike and it took 4 hours and 30 minutes to charge it fully (from 8/17).

I do know, that I have received the bike with 8.5km being done, while my dealer told me to expect aprox. 35km on the odometer. Maybe they skipped testing procedures at the factory?

My thoughts exactly. Even if the temperature sensor, which gave BATHOT, was on the damaged cell, It wouldn't take 6 hours at 5'C, for that cell, to cool down from BATHOT.

OR

Multiple damaged cells were/are inside the pack from the beginning and they warm up the whole battery pack.

Is it possible that I have received such a battery?

http://www.bikernewsonline.com/labels/Vectrix%20Scooters.htm

Summary: VECTRIX IS RECALLING 616 MY 2007 SCOOTERS. THE BATTERY MODULE INTERCONNECT CABLES CAN BECOME LOOSE AT THE BATTERY TERMINAL WITHIN THE BATTERY PACKS.

Consequence: IF LOOSE, THE BATTERY CAN OVERHEAT. OVERHEATING MAY CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE BATTERY PACKS AND POSSIBLY THE BIKE WHICH COULD RESULT IN A POTENTIAL FIRE HAZARD.

Remedy: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE BATTERY PACK. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING APRIL 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT VECTRIX AT 1-877-832-8749.

Is it possible that I have received such a battery?

http://www.bikernewsonline.com/labels/Vectrix%20Scooters.htm

Summary: VECTRIX IS RECALLING 616 MY 2007 SCOOTERS. THE BATTERY MODULE INTERCONNECT CABLES CAN BECOME LOOSE AT THE BATTERY TERMINAL WITHIN THE BATTERY PACKS.

Consequence: IF LOOSE, THE BATTERY CAN OVERHEAT. OVERHEATING MAY CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE BATTERY PACKS AND POSSIBLY THE BIKE WHICH COULD RESULT IN A POTENTIAL FIRE HAZARD.

Remedy: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE BATTERY PACK. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING APRIL 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT VECTRIX AT 1-877-832-8749.

Sounds the most likely as nothing else is really making sense, unless the cooing ducts are blocked. Let them know, they will probably really get their arses in gear.

No one wants the sort of bad publicity a conflagration of their product and possibly of yourself if charging in your garage overnight would cause.

I've started a charging 1 hour 30 minutes ago at 10/17 bars full, 22'C battery temperature, 15'C ambient. Now it's at 1:30 hours of charging, battery at 26'C, CC charging. Looking good so far. I'll keep you posted.

I want to thank all of you for your support. I really love this bike and the community on this forum and I wish I had the chance to charge the bike fully and without worry and experience a full range, so I can take that 52 km trip to the lake without worry of an empty battery ;-)
Every extra bar of battery means additional 5km for me and I want all the juice it can give.

Update : 2:12 into charging, battery at 30'C, 150V, CC charging. /crosses fingers
Update2: 2:30 into charging, battery at 33'C, EC charging, 55 minutes 'till the end of EC.

I've started a charging 1 hour 30 minutes ago at 10/17 bars full, 22'C battery temperature, 15'C ambient. Now it's at 1:30 hours of charging, battery at 26'C, CC charging. Looking good so far. I'll keep you posted.

I want to thank all of you for your support. I really love this bike and the community on this forum and I wish I had the chance to charge the bike fully and without worry and experience a full range, so I can take that 52 km trip to the lake without worry of an empty battery ;-)
Every extra bar of battery means additional 5km for me and I want all the juice it can give.

When you get yours sorted, you will be delighted. Just to give you an idea of what to expect when it's fixed to give you the confidence that the Vectrix will deliver what you expect, today I gunned mine to work instead of babying it. I blasted home up a big hill, lots of bursts of full acceleration, high speed and after this hard 25 mile run, the battery was at 28C, 7 bars were left and the range'ometer said 15 miles left at that drain rate.

3.7 Kwh to recharge
32 pence
and 4 hours of charging. Brilliant!!!
Mind you, it was up to 16/17 after only 2 hours.

Good luck Andy, keep going.

Thanx!

The initial battery temperature rose from 22'C to 33'C. I'm not sure if that's ok, but looking at Mik's charging report here, there should be no battery temperature increase during the charging. And his ambient tempeature was 26'C, my is 15'C.

The wind at the left shock absorber feels warmish. I'll see what the EC charging will do.

Update: *Sigh* The EC part of charging is really starting to cook the battery:

there should be no battery temperature increase during the charging. And his ambient tempeature was 26'C, my is 15'C.

Indeed not, mine slowly drops during charging and yours and my ambient temp is about the same.

I just came back from a complete charge. 39'C when finished. BUT the outlet air was only warmish. At 39'C it should be pretty warm, but it wasn't. I used a digital medical thermometer to measure the wind's temperature, but it was to low to register any. Medical thermometer start showing temperature at 32+'C.
When I will do a complete charge again in a few days time, I will use a more precise and fast digital thermometer with a probe I use for measuring outside and inside temperature of the flat. The thermometer probe is precise for the 1/10 of a degree so it should give me a pretty good indication.

Now the main questions:
1. If a battery temperature is 39'C, should the outlet wind have aprox. the same exit temperature?
2. If yes, that it means that there are only two options: Either the Vectrix' battery temperature probe is off, or the wind doesn't travel through the battery. Is the latter even possible?

I checked for the temperature of the aluminium undercarriage(sp?) below the battery. Would I feel the battery's temperature through that aluminium plating? Because it was rather cold to the touch.

I've been thinking. Do you remember my first photo of overheating I posted here?

The question that goes in my mind is: Why would a 44'C lit the battery telltale? Well, the manual says, that the flashing battery telltale means Shorted Cell or 15'C temperature difference at one sensor compared to the average temperature of the battery pack.
My battery telltale wasn't flashing, but there are obviously only two options for battery telltale. I don't know, how the shorted cell looks like, but I guess the bike wouldn't be moving, would it? If that's not true, than the only option remaining is, that one of the three temperature sensors is off.

Please, feel free to comment. I really appreciate your opinions. Am I concluding correctly?

And yes, it its possible to have incorrect air flow patterns due to damaged or missing seals. The gaps between the cells are only about 2mm wide, the air will go along another path if it can!

Agreed! Either that or the temperature sensor(s) are off.

And because of what you say, most of the cells have a proper cooling, but some don't. That's why they may be hotter than the others and that's why the battery telltale lit, because one sensor or more reports 15'C higher temperature than the average of the rest of them.

From now on, until the battery problem is fixed, I will only do partial chargings up to 16/17 bars and only do full charging only when I will need a full range. And I will do that in two stages:
1. Charge up to 15/17
2. Rest for the night
3. Charge to full charge.

I hope that Vectrix will repair my battery, because they don't seem to anxious to contact me about the matter even though I sent them detailed report with pictures and my dealer forwarded it to the Rome tech. He said they'd call me, but so far they haven't.

I'm happy to report, that my range has increased even though I drive more aggressively now. I've done 11.3km to work this morning, with speeds up to 90km/h, 2 bars consumed, 77km estimated range left.

Could be. I made a very bad quality video last night of the start of charging. I hope you will be able to see and hear any of it and recognize what's going on.

Again, I apologize for the very bad quality, but it was dark and mobile phone is way to old.

Andy,

listening (there wasnt a lot to watch :-) to your video pretty much confirms what Mik wrote. It really seems there is only one of the fans working. Normally, when the fan start spinning you can actually hear that there are more than one fans in the bike (each has is distinctive starting curve). I couldn't hear that effect in your video. From what you said, Mik is spot on with his theory. I would give him 100% or a cold lager :-)

Norman

Yes, I always only heard one fan starting. How this got through QC in Poland I wonder...

for Mik.

QC in Poland? :sick: You must be joking. Perhaps they found good use of this second "redundant" fan somewhere else. Two fans, this is at least one too much >> must have one for my shed in the garden.
:)

I think I found the explanation for your battery heating problem:

Only one of the two fans inside your Vectrix' battery housing is running.

And using Wotnopetrols words:

"grrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM" is an incorrect description for the sound of a correctly working Vectrix at beginning of charging!

It is actually:

grrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMHMMMHMMMHMMMHMMM.....
..................grrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMHMMMHMMMHMMMHMMM.....

as the other Vectrix riders will know.

But yours is just goes: grrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.........

Right?

Genius! Yes, double grrrrrrrRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMM. That's what it does!

Guys, I just found something, that looks like a connector, looking behind the left back wheel cover, near the shock absorber:

Could this be the connector to the missing battery fan? If not, what is it?

Guys, I just found something, that looks like a connector, looking behind the left back wheel cover, near the shock absorber:

Wish I had better news for you, Andy, but my bike, which has no battery temp problems, also has an open connector back there. No idea what it is there for, but just so you know, mine is setup the same way.