Schwinn MissileFS unknown electrical problem

Thanks guys.

I haven't even opened it up yet, it's scheduled for tomorrow. :) I'm just in the habit of asking online questions before I get started so that by the time (and if) I get frustrated maybe some answers will be around.

Thanks for the quick responses.

All-righty-then.

So I opened it up, and both fuses were blown.

Took it completely apart and did some mods to it...

-Painted it blue (it's for my girlfriend, to run her husky with, whose name is Blue).
-Drilled some holes in the frame to run the control wire and rear brake cable through to neaten it up, worked beautifully.
-Covered the exposed wire and brake cables with copper braiding. Looks killer.
-Removed all the "Schwinn" black and red grip tape, to be replaced with black (or maybe white... can I get whitewall tires for these things?).
-Chopped off about 5" of its useless tail, and the plastic cover over it, so I can mount a basket on the back of it tomorrow.
-Pulled off all decals. (Not a fan of advertising for others for free... or paying for the privilege.)
-Thinking about painting a recycle symbol on the black disk that covers the gears.
-Will have to acquire new grips, they and the rear shock spring are the only red left (and I think the red spring is fine).

Now I have a fresh, new problem.
I had it up on sawhorses. As soon as I got the wiring reconnected and the wheel back on, I couldn't wait to see it spin again.
I flipped the switch, got the green light (which I haven't learned the meaning of... it didn't always come on), and twisted the throttle.

...and got that familiar electric popping noise from somewhere in the rear. No sparks or flame, and I didn't let the smoke out.
Reflexively released the throttle, tried it again, and nothing.

The light was still on, and another check of the fuses revealed that they were both still good.

Here's what I know:
I THINK the popping came from the controller unit.
I know I can bypass it and connect the batteries directly to the motor to verify a controller problem. (Or either, or preferably?, connect a 9v to it, right? Wouldn't be much, but would spin the motor a LITTLE BIT, indicating that it's good, right? Anyway... not very likely to have a 9v laying around... it IS OK to hook the scooter's batteries, or just one of them perhaps, to the motor for a moment without doing any damage, correct?)

Here's something I did:
Mom picked up fuses for me while she was out. The fuses that were in it were a 30amp and a 40 amp (don't know which went to where, didn't seem relevant at the time... just marked which one went where). The fuses she bought were 40 amp.
Since I realize that fuses don't actually DO anything, as long as conditions are normal... they just protect when something out of the ordinary happens... I figured it would be fine to use 2 40amp fuses just to get it together and try it out, and get a 30 tomorrow.
I still think that. I don't THINK the problem was caused by an incorrect fuse, I still think it was a moisture problem. However, since learning how the thing is put together I don't think there's much chance that the controller itself was wet... but then, the rain WAS coming in sideways, right at the back of the thing. It also appears that (and makes sense) that the motor is manufactured tightly enough that it's pretty unlikely moisture got inside it.

So, I'm both incredibly long-winded and mildly stumped. And again, I'm asking before I check.
Any ideas? I'm pretty sure I now need a new controller, which is easy enough to match up.

Summary, eh:
Ideas or comments about what the problem might be?
What's the best place to order a new controller from?

Hey... here's something else: While I'm ordering a new controller anyway, any suggested changes or anything? I see lots of mods get done to these things, mostly for speed. What I'm thinking about is the opposite: the scoot's top speed of 18 mph is more than enough for it's intended use. Info online says the Missile FS should go about 3-6 miles.
Is there perhaps a controller change I could make that would make it go a little slower for a longer distance?
I'm sure the dog can REACH 18 mph, but 10 mph is probably more like it for distance, and it would be really cool if she could get enough mileage out of the scooter to actually GO someplace on it.
A top speed more like 15, and range of maybe 8 miles would still be fun, zippy, and more useful. 12 mph max would be acceptable if it would go 8 miles or more.

Thanks, guys!

It's good to see someone actually reads every word of my post. I know I tend to be long-winded (and make no apologies), so I suspect people do a lot of scanning when I write on forums.

-"It seems as though you've been busy."

Indeed I have. Two good, solid workdays on it. The copper braiding thing took the better part of the second day. It was a pain... it was the first time I've done it, so there was a curve, and it just plain wasn't easy.

-"Drilling holes in the frame is generally..."

Thanks for the concern and suggestion. I'll definitely take a look periodically, but I'm not at all worried. Structurally I know what I'm doing, it's electric motors I have no experience with. Drilling a small hole still leaves a lot of metal, plus I drilled them in places where other supports would make up for the very slight strength degradation.

-"I've opened up a lot of Currie scooters and have never seen one with two fuses before. Could you trace the wires in both directions to see what they are connected to. Are they both in red wires?"

I wouldn't have thought it strange till I just looked closer at it. Now, being a novice, I'm completely confused as to why it would be done the way it is.

The circuit is: Positive (red) wire from battery -> 2 fuses wired in parallel -> up into the front tube to the on/off switch -> motor connector.

-"I haven't tried running a 24V motor on a 9V drycell. It MIGHT move it a tad."

Completely moot. Just my long-winded (fingered?) way of saying I wasn't sure if connecting the scooter's battery (ies) directly to the motor was a bad idea. You answered that.

-"We might want to check some voltages at the controller before we toss it out. Do you have a digital multimeter or voltmeter?"

Well, not a digital one. But we can still do some checking.

-"The green light that doesn't always come on..."

Yeah, you've got the right one. Actually though, I'm not sure if it always came on or not... maybe I just didn't notice it in bright sunlight. I don't pay much attention to little things like "on" lights when something is obviously on... because I'm riding it. Until this recent problem, it worked consistently and smoothly.

-"You certainly could upgrade the performance."

Getting a little ahead of myself on that one. Which is fine, but I've gotta prioritize. I can upgrade later if necessary. (Is there a way to adjust the throttle? [I imagine there is.] Like so that twisting the switch all the way [easier to maintain a constant speed] would be less than actual WOT?)

-"What motor do you have on the Missile?"

It's a Currie XYD-6B. 24VDC, 28A rated current, 450w output.

-"You said the "popping noise" sounded like it came from..."

The controller on the FS is at the rear of the deck. It hasn't been moved or anything, there are tabs there that hold it in place. No biggie... semantics... location, location and location.
LOL... the "familiar" part meant simply that being a tinkerer, this isn't the first electrical component I've fried in my time. There's something strangely sweet about the smell of the smoke from burnt electronics... kinda like gunpowder. (Something even more sweet about NON-burnt electronic smell... I'm a sound engineer, and one of the first things I do to get in the groove at showtime is lean over real close and smell that electric aroma from inside my mixing console.)

You probably know what I'm talking about... not so much a pop, as a quick, unnerving crackle. I could make the sound for you if you were sitting here with me... ;)
The motor and controller are about 8 inches or so from each other, and being that I wasn't expecting any problem I wasn't looking their way when I twisted the throttle (I feel funny calling a rotary pot a "throttle").
I guess if I'd let the smoke out of the thing, it would have been more obvious which component it was.

So here ya go... your point by point answer to your very much appreciated response to my post.
I will now go out and briefly wire a battery to the motor while I await another response.
I wasted a whole day (sort of), so I didn't get a chance to get the basket mounted on it. I'll get that done tomorrow, and then the "after" photos will be taken. I'll be glad to share them here, to show off the work I so enjoyed.

Opened up the controller... saw nothing obviously burnt or broken (never do, really), but sticking the ol' nose in it reveals an obvious burnt smell.

Connected one battery directly to the motor, and it tried to drive, unmanned, through the sofa. (j/k)

Again, dude... you rock, and thanks.

-"How many wires do you have going from the controller to the throttle?"

Three. (It will be easy enough to match up the right one, not gonna upgrade till later on.)

-"I'm pretty sure your throttle is not a "rotary pot" as in "potentiometer"."

Yeah, potentiometer is what I meant. But my main point about that was that it's not technically a "throttle," and being a motorcycle mechanic (of sorts) it feels funny to call it one.

-"You could put a resistor (or a pot) in the signal wire from the throttle to the controller. Then you could regulate the amount of voltage going from the throttle to the controller, and therefore could "trim" your top speed."

I can't say I definitely wouldn't have thought of that eventually on my own, but that's brilliant! Kind of creating a manual cruise control of sorts. I might have to try the pot thing.
Oh, and "trim"... you a sound guy too, or do we just share terms? (I know that since sound work is essentially electrical work, we share a lot of terms.)

-"Something awfully strange about your fuse situation. Can't believe that is factory original. The parallel paths share the amp load, so you probably could have had about a 60A draw before the 30A fuse blew, then the 40A fuse would be carrying the entire load and would also immediately blow."

I thought it looked really weird, and kind of ineffective, but again I admit I'm sadly quite far from an electronics wizard.
Though, I pretty seriously doubt it was modded by who I bought it from. Folks around here are pretty simple. And a "mod" that did nothing but add a useless fuse would be kinda unimaginable, wouldn't it?
And it LOOKS like factory wiring. But then, so does mine. ;) (Heh... I don't play around. My mod work is usually way better than the Chinese factory did. I actually walk around the corners that they cut.)

They definitely both blew, but I've already said that.
You a guru, bro? You pretty confident you're correct about removing one of them?
As a pretty sharp and understanding novice I do kinda agree... 2 fuses in the same line would simply mean that 2 fuses fail instead of just one, costing 50 cents to replace instead of a quarter.

Say it again, and I'll do it. (Got not much else to do while I wait for a part in the mail... grrrr)

Alrighty then. Consider it removed.

I'm headed to the garage now to mount the basket, but I just realized I don't have any paint to really "finish" it. (Painting my mount black to blend in with the basket... or maybe I'll just go with the blue since I have it.)

One way or another, pictures either today or later when I get black paint.

Thanks again.

Alrighty, then...

It's done. Well, the mods are and pictures are taken anyway, I still need to order the controller.

If this is an active enough forum for it to matter, how exactly do I go about putting up pics?

Or, since there's only one other person besides me who seems to be involved in this thread, would you like me to email you some pics?

Haha... what'd you do? Get in a collision with a paint contractor's van?

I guess I'll have to put pics up on a hosting site or something. I don't know if the ones I put up on facebook will work... I'll have to see.

Alright, got it.

Here's the before:

After:

A closer detail of the copper braiding around the cables and control wire (look closely and you can see where the rear brake cable and control wire go into holes in the frame):

And a view showing the rear, with my homemade mount for the basket and the chopped tail:

I somehow missed your other post, but I figured it out. (Sometimes if you just look around....)

I figured I'd just order a controller like the one I'm replacing. Not sure off the top of my head, but I'm perusing ebay.

Thank you very much!

OK.... yet another question.

I'm having a hard time finding a replacement for the controller. Found one website that claims it's the only US supplier, and it's not available till the 15th.

With a simple search for "Schwinn missile fs controller" I found one that's slightly different, but cheaper and available. The main difference is that there's a connection for the battery charger, which my controller doesn't have. Do you know of a way to bypass or remove that connection?
Meanwhile, I guess we'll just be patient and do the back order thing.
Hmmm... I swear I had found another site that had the thing about a week ago, now I can't find it again.

I think it's strange that a direct search for "Missile FS controller" brought me to a part that isn't.
Dang interwebs. I guess it's a good thing that most of us DIYers are smart enough to know better.

So hey, well, yeah...

So I found the actual direct replacement controller, twice, and it was back ordered, twice.

Ordered the other one that I mentioned before, with the "extra" connector for the charger, simply not planning on using it. Delivered the scooter to the girlfriend, installed the new controller, and nada.

The green light above the switch comes on, but I get nothing when I turn the throttle. I looked closer, and found that the green and red and black wires on the new controller are reversed from where they are on my throttle connector (where they're also red and yellow, not black, but I don't see that as being a problem).

So I figure I can simply reverse those two wires from the throttle and it will probably fix it, but I haven't done it yet (busy) so I don't know. Any reason that's a BAD idea? I'm going to try a few things, but the last thing I want to do is wind up messing up the controller in case I have to return it.

Also... I decided to plug it into the charger to make sure it was nice and strong by the time I get it running, and the light on the charger doesn't come on. So I'm wondering if perhaps I can/should jump (connect together) the wires on the charger connector? Once again my limited electrical knowledge is screwing me. I'm guessing that since this controller is expecting to be connected more directly to the charger, but my scooter isn't designed that way maybe the charging connection THROUGH the controller (which apparently because of the connections I have, the charge IS going through the controller, just not through a separate connection) currently has a high-impedance air gap due to the open connector. My logic is telling me that connecting its posts together will fix the problem... but my logic is also telling me that if it doesn't work I might ruin the controller and not be able to get my money back if it's simply wrong.

Any further help, yo?
I appreciate it... the excitement of getting the thing down here has now diffused into not being able to show it off.

Thanks.

I already tried switching the 2 controller wires like I said, and it's running great.

My problem now is simply the charger issue.

I ordered this:
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/scmogti24v40.html

But it's not QUITE what they sent. It has the same stuff, sticking out of the end instead of the side, with the addition of another wire that I don't know what it is... it's terminated, but has a connector... I'm assuming it's for a brake cutoff that isn't in use on this scooter.

There's one more connector with red and black wires and a connector, that I assume is for the charger in some way since that's what's not connected or terminated, and that's the only thing that doesn't seem to be working.
My idea is that I can connect its two wires together and that will "connect" the charger. This didn't come in a sealed package, just a ziplock, so I think I might could return it. Of course, that's not what's most important... getting it charging is.

I've got other things to do, so I'll have to deal with taking a picture later or tomorrow. I'm going to go plug it in now and see if the other issue had something to do with it (I doubt it). Perhaps you can think of something based on this information? Or at least if my idea of connecting those two wires together would FRY anything... if not, we'll deal with it tomorrow.

By the way, I've already taken Blue for a ride, and it works AWESOME. I'd thought that because of the smaller wheels if she tries to stop or take off (which she doesn't do... she's already used to running with a bike) it might be an issue, but I did some pretty erratic riding and it was fine. Again... awesome!

Yes, it's a stock controller (as far as I know... bought it used), XLR plug, port on the scooter near the switch. Yeah... your whole first paragraph there is it.

The controller doesn't "turn on," the only switch on it is a fast/slow charge selector. (Any real difference, while I'm at it? I'd think just going with the slow is better, and don't see any reason to rush it ever.)

I am pretty sure I had already plugged in the charger after the storm and charged the scooter, and it worked. Though as soon as I acquire a multi-meter tomorrow it will be easy to check to make sure. (About the only tool I own and didn't bring down here with me is my multi-meter.)

Last paragraph?
Yeah, um, I'm not real thrilled with monsterscooterparts.com. There was nothing else in the box, no labeling on the wires, nothing but the part, packing materials and a ziplock bag.
What seems strange is that the "extra" connector that was pictured in what I ordered is the one I would assume is what was listed as the charger connector (a), and there's yet another one (b) on what I received. The little 2-wire connector (a) has a sort of terminator connected to it, as you'll see in the pictures. That one has two white wires going to it. The OTHER one, (b) is something completely unknown to me, and it also pictured. It's a white connector with two terminals, with red and black wires connected to it.

By the way, all of the labeling on the controller is correct, 40w, 24v, and it's running. The only problem I'm now having is charging (frankly, for all I know the light on the charger could be out and it could be working, but I doubt that).
And again, yes, I'm quite sure I had already plugged in the charger to make sure it wasn't a problem and it worked. Though, it's been well over a month now so it's possible I could remember wrong. Heh... but I've got another witness too.

So, here's a couple of pics... let me know what I should check next. (Two things... would this be easier over the phone? And... you realize I owe you good beer, right?)

I know they're a little vague, but hopefully they help. Again, thinner one with the black connector I think is the charger plug, because it matches the connectors in what I ORDERED, and I don't think it's the problem since it has something connected to it.
But then... since the other one ISN'T connected to anything, and I'm not charging... I could be wrong and I'm left clueless.

Thanks again.

Oh yeah... NOT pictured are, hopefully obviously, the stuff that is correct, connected and working.

Update:

I did a little thinking, and I have to agree. I don't know what the unused connector is, but if the batteries are connected directly to the battery via the charger port then said connector has nothing to do with it.

I just checked for voltage at the XLR connector on the charger, and I have nothing at all.
We're on our way to pick one up this afternoon.

Meanwhile I think I'll do a little research on how to build one cheaper...