ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

OK, so I am now slightly relieved reading about the REAL speed of the 8kW bikes, as it is practically the same as my 72V 5...8kW Thunder. And I must say that with just 115A maximum current you indeed miss out on some serious fun in the range of 30 to 55 REAL km/h. My Thunder will draw up to almost 160A for a moment in that range, but usually of course it stays way below that with a maximum also in the 115 to 120A range. Uphill can differ, sometimes taking a little over that, and full blast (which is ONLY dependent on voltage and the usual bits of drag) around 80A too. And my new controller has also let the bike shed it's snail-like take-off from standstill and feels pretty much the way you describe your Sevcon beast.
Your speedo would be illegal on European roads.
The rule is as follows: actual speed + actual speed/10 + 4km/h. Showing less than actual speed is prohibited.
I.e. at real 80km/h the maximum allowalble speedo display would be 80 + 80/10 + 4 = 92km/h. Any reading above that would not conform to Directive 75/443/EWG. Please, all you E-Scooter assemblers under the sun, see to it that NONE of the speedometers that leave your factories exagerate more than that!

* install a way to switch the motor from delta to star configuration to use less power and get a higher top speed. This can be done just by switching the phase windings with some contactors. Delta (default) winding is good for torque but not high speed. Star is better for high speed, uses less power at high speed, but it lacks torque.

I am quite convinced it is the other way round: our motors are operated in star or Y-configuration, thus giving us high startup torque (if the controller doesn't strangle that) but limited top speed. A delta configuration would be the other way round: less low-RPM torgue, but higher RPM due to less back-EMF.
By the way, I recently measured the idle max RPM of my bike to be about 1105 with 76V from the battery pack. That translated to a circumfrence speed of around 103km/h. At 0Nm torque left to drive anything apart from the motor itself. So the speed promise of my importer E-Sprit of 95...100km/h could only be attained on a rather steep downhill gradient, with just enough juice to make it to real 86km/h at 25°C ambient temp. on level ground.
Higher speed needs higher voltage, so four more cells (~84V) should be be able to push these bikes to slightly over real 100km/h. And with a delta configuration maybe even a bit more...

Again, please, all you E-scooter assemblers out there, don't lie to us about the true top speed of your electric rides, as we will find out and give you negative press in places such as these!

* increase voltage to around 132v with a 115A limit. (15kw). Top speed will be about 130km/h
* install a way to switch the motor from delta to star configuration to use less power and get a higher top speed. This can be done just by switching the phase windings with some contactors. Delta (default) winding is good for torque but not high speed. Star is better for high speed, uses less power at high speed, but it lacks torque.

the hub motors aren't true sine wave, so putting them in Delta is bad news (high recirculating currents).
if necessary you could have multiple windings and go from series to parrallel, but simply getting a bigger controller is usually easier.

you may run into a continuous power problem if trying to maintain higher top speeds,
but bigger hub motors are available.

Matt

I have an RMP counter as well and will test my scooter as soon as I can, could be interesting to see if the 8KW motor and Sevon will give more RPM or not...

I think after all your test it will fly to the moon and back 
When you test the scooter on the center stand there is no load, since the automatic regen is working.
If no regen is applied the wheel will turn normally.
If you are interested in testing the scooter on manual regen please apply to PDT importer Eric to understand how it’s done.

We are using the same odometer the only difference is the display, on my testing I got only 5% difference.
I couldn’t drive any faster but the difference is similar all the way.
I as well made the recording of the ride and I got top RPM to 1085 and it matches the speed.
I recommend to re do this test on your end

You have a 10A onboard charger to replace to 20A is changing the internal structure of the scooter. If you want a fast charger I recommend an external charger of 50A 72V that will give you one hour charge.
To do so you will have to create a high current charging socket and protect the cables because a shortcut will be like lightning.
In Israel we installed a fast charger on every Pizza Hut shop to give charging boost if needed. A one hour charge is normally 1C so it’s not damaging the battery but its high current be careful.
You will need as well to make the proper connection to your home electricity mains grid.

Can someone please verify my calculations for RPM (1085) to km/h?:

Rim: 13 inch = 33,02cm
Tire: 130/60/13, 130 x 0,6 = 78mm x 2 = 15,6cm
Total Diameter: 33,02 + 15,6= 48,62cm
Radius: 48,62 x 3,14 = 152,67cm
Km/min: 0.0015267km x 1085RPM = 1,6564
Km/h: 1,6564 x 60= 99,38?

Johnny J, your calculation is pretty much spot-on. I recon with 1.558m circumfrence. And I find the 1085 RPM DURING ACTUAL RIDING quite sensational for a 24cell LiFePO4 Battery with the ZAP/Erider Motor, in the light of my measured 1105 RPM having given me almost -76V back-EMF, with just a few V left to rotate the wheel...
The Sevcons are known to have trouble at the max. RPM limit, so pcarlson's obervations do not surprise me.

That looks like the same panel as the ZEV, but the Speedos are different, as are the instruments in the round cutouts on each side.

Hey IB, you have both a ZEV and a CA. Have you compared the readings yet?

I have an RMP counter as well and will test my scooter as soon as I can, could be interesting to see if the 8KW motor and Sevon will give more RPM or not...

Well, today I tested my scooter and the max RPM on the center stand is 1326!

That would equal a theoretical max speed of 121km/h, so maybe it will do 100+, will know in a week or two. :-)

It´s the Sevcon 8018, CHL and propably the same motor as you have.
Have you tested your RPM with the scooter on the center stand?
If you have lower RPM it´s most likely a controller programming issue.
I have no CA, maybe in the future if the new BMS functions doesn´t cover my needs.

In China,our GPS from cell phone test top speed to be 100.3km/h,see attached

Well, today I tested my scooter and the max RPM on the center stand is 1326!

That would equal a theoretical max speed of 121km/h, so maybe it will do 100+, will know in a week or two. :-)

Do you have an RPM gauge?

Ok so I set my wheel setting to 1666mm on my cycle analyst to give me RPM's and maximum RPM'S before regen starts kicking in is around 1100 rpm.

On a side note, I went for a 68.4km ride today and my fuel economy was 53.6Wh/km (85.76Wh/m)

I finally hit 1000km today!!

Yes, have one of those laser RPM gauges where you put a small piece of reflective tape on the wheel, they are quite cheap, maybe around 50USD.

Pcarlson, your Sevcon is HEAVILY reined in current-wise, it is a shame for this extremely powerful controller to be so brutally curbed! Speak with your dealer to see if he is willing and has the ability (i.e the Sevcon programming unit) to fiddle with the controller settings. My Kelly-equipped Thunder with the original slightly undersized KEB72201 controller (100A continuous, 200A peak) also suffered from absolutely sluggish startup but drew up to 160A peak from the battery during acceleration and was thus an oxymoron of sorts: when starting from even just a slight upward gradient I had to push-start the thing with mine own legs instead of taking advantage of 160Nm standstill torque that our motor produces with just just 60A, but it accelerated like hell as soon as it hit 25km/h.
That is now done and over with thanks to the bigger brother KEB72801X with 150A continuous and 350A peak, despite the fact that we had to strongly limit maximum battery current to 35% of 350A=122.5A in order to keep the actual battery current peak below 160A as before. But takeoff from standstill is now according to the true capability of our motor. This morning at a traffic light I left a 250cc scooter well behind me until the speed limit and traffic allowed him to catch up, and I could even start from standstill and accelerate on the 20% gradient up to my dealer's place which is about 50m up this steep slope. With the orignal controller I had to take the 90 degree turn at the base of that slope in full stride to just barely make it to his entrance before the speed died down to a standstill. My Fury-Thunder is finally true to it's names performance-wise :-)
Of course the motor leads heat up on such a steep slope, we measured 67°C a few minutes after I had ridden up there. So if you should intend to constantly speed up 20% gradients this kind of mod should not be done, but as I said normal riding does not stress battery nor motor any more than before, that inital burst is over in just 2 to 3 seconds and the normal brutal acceleration continues from there.

The PDT Sprinter Thunder should be capable of up to barely 100 real km/h with a 50..60Ah 72V CHL battery, but again only if that little Sevcon controller is not limited to anything below it's nominal specification. That Johnny J's Thunder-wheel spins to over 1300 RPM in idle is a pretty good indicator that it should easily top my bike's 86km/h maximum at optimal bettery temp.

In China,our GPS from cell phone test top speed to be 100.3km/h,see attached

How dependable are the GPS signals in China? The system allows for intentional regional inaccuracies according to the operators' will...
I also received this track from your neighbor and carefully analysed it. Can you explain to me why the topography is completely asymmetric even though it was a ride from your factory to a spot in the northeast and back exactly the same way to the factory? The speed chart does show the expected symmetry, but the topography is completely off. This lets me doubt the accuracy of the speed recordings also.