Vectrix closing shop, sending people home

I know some Vectrix in Europe have this: 120kmh (for 400usd)

I know some Vectrix in Europe have this: 120kmh (for 400usd)

I tried to buy it, but they don't want to sell the hex file :-(

Hi Guys!

This is me, RuFuS from Portugal.

I'm one of the partners of FuelFree Motos in Portugal.

We developed an enterely new firmware for Vectrix. He are not going to sell any hex.file or something else as you could understand...There is a work of 2 years and a half (nowadays) it's still being improved...even being perfect as it is now, we want it even better!

Basicly the firmware makes this:

http://fuelfreemotos.wordpress.com/firmware-vectrix-2/

- 120km/h (or more if you want)
- variable charge rate (as you want fast or slow charges)
- double turn lights-on;
- eco-cruise control (very helpfull to make big distances)
- instant power consuption
- a lot of changes in the charge and discharge process compared with the vectrix firmware
- bi-xénon support
- a lot of more other things that i can't tell...

You can change the language with google...i suppose you could understand perfectly...

We are scheduling a way to make this available in Europe...United States and rest of the world would be also possible but...it's of question of "how many we are?"

We also made sucessfull battery changes with the integration of our "PowerBMS"...A123 batteries are already running since 2012 without any problem...

A 40kW peak power (with 8kWh battery pack) is on the timeline for this year... ;)

Hi Rufus,

I don't know you, but your product seems good (it is free like your name freefuel?)...similar like 1 I know, based in The Laird.

If anyone want hex code, I think I can get....:-)

Hi Rufus,

I don't know you, but your product seems good (it is free like your name freefuel?)...similar like 1 I know, based in The Laird.

If anyone want hex code, I think I can get....:-)

Our firmware has nothing to do with The Laird...

Regards

Of course, I see...but how much?
Or you are a gentleman like The Laird?

Hi all

I spoke to the guys in Portugal a while back (although i thought it was south of France) when i heard about this firmware
unfortunately they will only install it into bikes that they deal with personally and will not sell the code for you to install.

Obviously i can see why for business purposes, and to control distribution.

This sadly is great for them to stop any duplication however would appear that they could make considerable sales by selling the hex codes (even if they have to code them with customers names hardcoded in them and then write an agreement to prevent duplication)

Obviously the number of people who would appreciate and purchase these versions of code are I am sure considerable and the sales they could make would also be considerable. I for one would purchase it in a heartbeat.

So... Rufus, please reconsider your long-term position. There are a large amount of people with canbus cables and would love the opportunity to pay you for your hard work.

Cheers

Chris
New Zealand

Thanks ofx210p, I will search in Portugal...
I want also this, but with no gadjet.
For me 120kmh is good.
And I think the motorcontroller don't accept 235ah for long period (in post antiscab in conversion 90ah), so 40kw is bad for MC.
So maybe one day Taird can make that for us.

So... Rufus, please reconsider your long-term position. There are a large amount of people with canbus cables and would love the opportunity to pay you for your hard work.

RuFuS,

I would be happy to merely have the stock firmware modified to allow a programmable or indefinite charging period to allow my Elithion BMS take care of balancing and charge termination.

I can't see why it would be a problem for you to merely email a customer the new hex code in the same way that alternative versions of the code have been distributed already i.e. by email. It would still be very secure from a intellectual property point of view as reverse engineering the hex code would be a very difficult job for very little return and therefore just not worth it.

Anyway, I am a potential customer.

Thanks ofx210p, I will search in Portugal...
I want also this, but with no gadjet.
For me 120kmh is good.
And I think the motorcontroller don't accept 235ah for long period (in post antiscab in conversion 90ah), so 40kw is bad for MC.
So maybe one day Taird can make that for us.

Just musing here:

The PM300CLA006 IGBT module will go into desat cut out above ~400A (i'll have to dig out the datasheet for an actual value)

but it is a 600V device

The caps on the board are 200V - you could probably go with a loaded battery voltage as high as 150V
If you run a non-sinusoidal waveform (which with FOC it isn't anyway), you could achieve DC bus current closer to 300A

The main issue would be cooling, particularly for IGBT modules that have had more wear (they do indeed wear out internally - I've just worn out my second one)

basically the failure mode is the module overheats internally and triggers the internal temp cut-out
Not sure whether the heat dissipation suffers after a while, or the switching or conduction losses go up for some reason

for my style of (agressive) riding I start noticing the degrading IGBT module after 30'000km, and total failure at around 40'000km (although my second one has yet to totally fail so I haven't replaced it yet - why waste a usable $450 component)
But I have 60Ah cells and have the energy on board to really punnish an MC - normal bike MC's should have a longer service life

but 40kw is probably doable, but only at speeds above 80kmh

unless you do field strengthening below 70kmh
so instead of forcing the motor back emf down after 70kmh as the original firmware does, you try to force the back emf *up* at low speed to put more power through the motor.

To All,

I can tell by reading through the forum, that everyone here is devoted to an amazing technology, and I hope that your passion continues, even if Vectrix may be done. I am still apart of the company, one of the last left in New Bedford, and I can tell you that our fate is not sealed yet. As of Friday, we are still in the disclosure process for a sale to an American company, if that changes, then I will post an update.

As for JONES- how DARE you speak the way you do! I get this site seems to be a bit of a free-for-all at times, but again HOW DARE YOU.

For all on the site that haven't had any interaction with me contacting the company, I started with Vectrix a year and a half ago, as the general gate keeper for the company and I have to say it's one of the most amazing places I have ever worked, like a large family. So when the cuts started to happen, it was devastating watching 3/4 of the staff leave, and then again the last cuts in December.

So Jones- HOW DARE YOU, speak of people like that, especially when they aren't present to defend themselves. In the end, it's a number of things that have added up that has lead to where we are now, so to place the blame on particular people, and throw mud, is distasteful. I get that you're angry, but just stop, there is nothing to gain from this, at all.

PS- don't go throwing rocks when you have so many skeletons in your closet(especially with the SIZE of the skeletons you possess, if this is who I think it is).

As for the rest of the forum, I will try to update you, if you need help you can message me, as I am still the gate keeper, so regardless of the outcome, I will gladly try to help anyone I can.

Have a good night :)

Hi Cristal M,

thx for your words. It's good to know, there is still life in NB. That makes hope for the future.
The whole family of Vec- drivers in and around Germany wish you all the best and good luck. We keep our fingers crossed for you.

greetings
Peter

we are still in the disclosure process for a sale to an American company

I'm crossing my fingers, but I fear that the uniquely American stigma regarding "scooters" might be a problem. In Europe and Asia there is no stigma regarding scooters - I thought moving the manufacturing and focus to Europe was a smart idea and I fully expected Vectrix to succeed there.

I've been riding my Vectrix for six years now and still, to this day, I get the demeaning comments and snickers, like "who rides a moped?" Even when I explain that the bike is a 500-lb., full-sized, 70 MPH freeway motorcycle I still get the sarcastic wink and/or rolling of the eyes.

Last week a new next-door-neighbor flagged me down as I was riding to work. As I pulled over to say hello, he said, "Nice Bi... oh...sorry, from the front it looked like a motorcycle".

Hopefully this stigma will be a generational thing and fade away - there are more people riding scooters in the big cities these days, for example. Maybe a carefully focused demographics study would help. Good luck Vectrix!

oobflyr,

I ride an electric scooter of similar size (Current C124 and a smaller one before that) since 2006 and get similar reactions. I've had hostile shouts like "you're gonna get killed on that thing!" (and no, he was not concerned for my safety), derision, and even an egg thrown at the scooter once.

I hope it is a generational thing.

I have never understood why there was never more of a marketing effort in Canada. In Toronto, electric low-powered, 32 kph token-pedal type electric scooters are wildly popular, and one would think that there would be a lot of demand for higher performing stuff - even if registration and insurance is required. Come to think of it, I have never seen a single Canadian in this forum. However, the endless sphere forum - largely an electric-assisted bicycle experimenters forum (sometimes "assisted" to 120kph!) is full of Canadians.

Maybe the American company eyeing the remains of Vectrix is Current Motors.

I live in Northern Virginia and ride into DC most days. Scooters are reasonably popular here and getting more and more so; I probably see two or three times as many scooters on my commute as I do 'real' motorcycles. I've never experienced any hostility toward my Vectrix, even from fat hairy blokes on their Harleys. Lots of questions yes, a fair bit of disbelief, and actually quite a few admiring comments.

tbh I got more 'moped' comments when I lived in London (riding an Aprilia Atlantic at the time) than I do here.

On a different note, and I've said this before: I find it impossible to believe that there isn't money to be made in the VX-1 (and the VT-1 if it's sufficiently developed). I just hope there's someone out there brave enough to try.

I think it helps that our scooters are more in the motorcycle class, than the scooter class, even through that's what we're marketed as.

There is a great potential of profit in the vx-1, but unfortunately, until we ramp back up, there aren't many options to get that project going. We have a newer Li solution for the battery system, and are still, technically, in the testing phase of the solution, so hopefully, if everything get's back up and going, we'll be able to have some type of release to catch the 2014 riding season, but that, at this point in time, is a big if. Things are still up in the air, as to the fate of the company, so we shall see.

We did make an effort in Canada, but quite frankly, the country is such a nightmare to deal with, export/import wise, we've had items wrapped up in customs for months at a time, and in the area of logistics, it's a time/profit killer. As well, the Canadian laws that regulate sales of vehicles from other countries and other imports from other countries, tend to be highly restrictive and stringent.

We did make an effort in Canada, but quite frankly, the country is such a nightmare to deal with, export/import wise, we've had items wrapped up in customs for months at a time...

So it looks like, in the end, NAFTA has done nothing to help cross-border trade, unless you are a large corporation?

I do get the impression that certain regulatory powers in Canada and Ontario in particular seem to think there is some kind of big potential safety hazard with electric vehicles. The little Chinese imported pedaled scooters get around this by being considered electric-assisted bicycles with no registration, insurance or VIN needed.

Even here in Pennsylvania, electric scooters and MC's are not strictly title-able. There is no check box for "electric" (as there is for cars) on the MV-1 so we have to check the "50cc or greater" or "less than 50cc" box and the the PennDOT seems to go along with it. 2-or 3-wheel EV's simply don't exist in the process.

Crystal, my scooter was trucked from San Diego to NB over a year ago to replace blown charger and upgrade the Li batteries to the new Lithium iron packs, according to Gerry White. After a year with no progress fixing it, Gerry gave me a VX-1 NImh loaner which barely runs now. I still owe $6000 to my credit union, my bike was their collateral and it is at your HQ. I have no paperwork on the loaner, I am desperate for help!

I was the first in CA and the second in the U.S. to buy a Vectrix. I have shown it at EV events and given rides to executives at CCSE (they administer EV rebates for California).
I was promised the return of my bike with new batteries, charger and 24 month warranty by Gerry White and Dana DeCostal. What are my options?

Dan Wolfson
858-546-0707
Danw [at] usa.net

Hi All
I had the opportunity to see the proto of the VT1 in Brussels
it looks great !
it is really a nice bike, a bit small ( frame is shorter ) it is more for inside cities commuting, so some place left for the VX1 !

it will costs in belgium 8500 eur with one bat ( probably 25-30 miles range with one pack ) so still quite expensive and with 3 packs it will be below 10000 eur
the new bmw costs 15 KE for 35 kw peak and 8 kwh bat pack ! not the same price and not the same reputation also !

I just purchased another second hand li+ for 4000 eur , because I continue believing in this machine , that will become quite cheap to commute.
I m still desappointed by the life expectation of the batteries, need again to change cells after few thousands kms
cheers

Where now we can fond components for Vx?

I'm a Canadian living in Victoria BC and have owned a 2008 VX1 since May 2009. I bought it brand new from All Season Motorsports in Calgary and had trouble with it right out of the crate. A problem with the motor controller caused the range "fuel" gauge to be non-functional, which caused a few unexpected power rundowns before I figured out what was happening. I spent the next four years fruitlessly calling the dealer, New Bedford, Dana DeCosta plus other Vectrix employees and never got anything except promises, unanswered phone calls or emails and runaround. Finally I just gave up, long ago having figured out ranges by voltage, tripmeter readings and just the response and feel of the throttle. However, so far after 24,000 km I've had no battery issues and still have ranges of 50 to 60 km depending on the time of year, and that's riding in the winter as well as summer. I'm actually grateful that if I had to have a problem it was with an apparently non-critical system rather than the pack, but in common with so many Vectrix owners I am completely disgusted with Vectrix Corporation's utter disregard for their customers and dealers. The VX1 is a splendid product and I'll ride mine until it dies, but I'd never buy another. My next electric bike will be a BMW C Evolution or a Zero. The management of Vectrix repeatedly imploded a grand opportunity in such a Chernobyl-like way that all I can do is shake my head and I'll probably shed a tear or two the day my beautiful blue Vectrix finally gives up.

Hello Victrix,

I've sat in the wings not wanting to reply because I know that eventually everything comes out. You are a victim to the problems that have plagued Vectrix since day one. Having worked there and having seen the inner workings of the management, it saddens me to read this story of hardworking people who shelled out their money and have gotten no respect in return. I know of the people you speak of and have watched them do their jobs without and regard for the customer. They should be ashamed of themselves. But, this is why the company is where they are.....CLOSED!! And if they were to return I would hope that they would NOT bring back the people that you have spoken with. It's these people who have given Vectrix and the few hard working people a bad name.

I wish I could help you and the others. Good luck and I wish you the best with your Vectrix product.

I have just been told from a contact in Poland that the factory in Poland closes tomorrow and the bankruptcy process will begin
A sad day for a product that had so much promise.

I feel that the brand has been plagued from day one with over spending and under performing as far as customer service is concerned.
Apart from a few talented individuals that believed in this technology there was zero affordable and competent back up once the guy from the south of England stopped his service business.

I hope that something will be salvaged from this.

The sad truth is that Vectrix never had a chance. Application of the Technology outside of densely populated urban centers just does not work, that means the USA.
Development cost, BOM costs, service infrastructure costs and NO DEMAND spell failure. It appears that GP was more of a hindrance than a help. Blindly pouring in 30 million without a plan only confused the market and did not address legacy problems from Vectrix ONE.

Applications will work in Europe's major cities. The VT1 is the perfect commuter bike for European cities, delivery fleets, POLICE, POSTAL AND SHORT TERM RENTAL fleets.It provides a range solution through interchangeable batteries and software that works. The volume required to be profitable, 7500 units, is there and the lower per kwh cost of the battery gets the vehicle price affordable.

Other major cities excluding USA and Canada, also offer attractive potential demand especially in fleet applications.
Pulling this off is a substantial investment of at least 50 million dollars over the next 5 years.

Hi everyone!

If it's true, it's really sad. But don't worry.

FuelFree Motos in Portugal have all the main electronic parts to ship Worldwide.

Best Regards

It's a lot more than that.

Thank you we love so much vulture.

shut up, CO2 !

Your arrogance is quite annoying. Let's be grateful to the guys in Portugal, who keep the lights burning for a great product. Please, spare your waste comments !

Peter

- double turn lights-on;
- eco-cruise control (very helpfull to make big distances)
- bi-xénon support

hmmm it seems to be my firmware on the ICM.. isn't it? are you selling it ?

I know some Vectrix in Europe have this: 120kmh (for 400usd)

I tried to buy it, but they don't want to sell the hex file :-(

Hi Guys!

This is me, RuFuS from Portugal.

I'm one of the partners of FuelFree Motos in Portugal.

We developed an enterely new firmware for Vectrix. He are not going to sell any hex.file or something else as you could understand...There is a work of 2 years and a half (nowadays) it's still being improved...even being perfect as it is now, we want it even better!

Basicly the firmware makes this:

http://fuelfreemotos.wordpress.com/firmware-vectrix-2/

- 120km/h (or more if you want)
- variable charge rate (as you want fast or slow charges)
- double turn lights-on;
- eco-cruise control (very helpfull to make big distances)
- instant power consuption
- a lot of changes in the charge and discharge process compared with the vectrix firmware
- bi-xénon support
- a lot of more other things that i can't tell...

You can change the language with google...i suppose you could understand perfectly...

We are scheduling a way to make this available in Europe...United States and rest of the world would be also possible but...it's of question of "how many we are?"

We also made sucessfull battery changes with the integration of our "PowerBMS"...A123 batteries are already running since 2012 without any problem...

A 40kW peak power (with 8kWh battery pack) is on the timeline for this year... ;)