Multiple Vectrix

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prensel
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

Did you try to 'reset' the charger by unconnecting the DC cable ?
Sometimes the charger is locked in some way and taking out the DC plug, waiting 10 seconds and replugging it could reset it.
The plug can be reached from underneath the front right wing.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2007 #307
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2008 #2327 converted to 36S30P Li-Ion
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2011 #3243
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl FactFou

israndy
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

I hope we are talking about the same thing, I am using the cable that connects the charger to the battery, I am unplugging it and running two wires from it to the other Vectrix at the same location thru the 500 watt lamp. So I am unplugging the charger EACH time and then re-attaching and testing the ability of the charger to charge. I hooked the two bikes together for 10 hours yesterday, way more than in the past, but the voltage was measured as only 15 volts after a week, so it had not held the charge it got from the 4 hours I had previously connected them so likely not enough to get the charger to start. I was still unable to get it to start yesterday but will try again today and see if the voltage has stayed put or if it dropped fast again.

-Randy

Also a new 2018 Tesla Model 3, a 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

israndy
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

OK, got the chargers between my Vectri swapped and the old one works in the new bike. Will need to run the battery down to red light as it only charged for 20 minutes or so.

Took photos of the process, but when I try to post they come out like this:

IMG_1357.JPG

Any ideas how to rotate them? If I double-click on them in my account a new tab opens and the pic is vertical, but I have yet to figure out how to do it in a message.

If anyone knows where a cheap ESD charger might be, I may be interested if the batteries are OK and I cannot fix this one.

-Randy

Also a new 2018 Tesla Model 3, a 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

Kocho
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

Did you check this thread about dead ESD chargers?

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/11322-has-my-charger-died?page=2

Mine is still dead and I have another dead one in pieces. I should get to fixing it one of these days, but at least visually and without taking the rest of it apart I could not see anything burned and wrong with it. It's a mess in there...

With the new plug-in CANBus thingy from persnel (spelling ?), my understanding is you can use any charger and still have your display functionality and then some on the bike. That could be a cheaper way vs. another ESD charger.

If anyone knows where a cheap ESD charger might be, I may be interested if the batteries are OK and I cannot fix this one.

-Randy

zeuz
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Re: Multiple Vectrix
israndy
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

Took photos of the process, but when I try to post they come out like this:

IMG_1357.JPG

Any ideas how to rotate them? If I double-click on them in my account a new tab opens and the pic is vertical, but I have yet to figure out how to do it in a message.

-Randy

OK, well that's embarrassing, today looking at the thread I see that the photo is correctly rotated. Frustrating. Not sure why it previewed wrong. Even when I first posted I think it was sideways.

In the process of wanting to photoblog my adventures replacing the charger I found The Laird's video that hits all the points I was gonna make:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZHKits6_Nw

Hope that shows up correctly!

-Randy

Also a new 2018 Tesla Model 3, a 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

israndy
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

Well the bike charged at full 11 amps for a bit when I first hooked up the good charger to the new new bike. After many minutes it changed to the 4 amp charge (I know these two modes have names, escaping me). I left it overnight and went to charge it again and it powered on to the 4 amp mode and QUICKLY went to cool down. I then drove it around the block a few times (Yay! I did not reassemble it so I was getting flashing "your lights are missing" indicators). I got the stuttering acceleration/red light to turn on after a few blocks. I coasted back to the outlet with the red light still on. I plugged in and the charger fired up, showed the voltage was at 130 moved to 131 volts and then then turned off. It does it repeatedly, it doesn't seem to know the bike needs a full charge. Other than riding to red light is there a way to reset the computer to do a full battery charge?

-Randy

Also a new 2018 Tesla Model 3, a 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

Bikemad
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

With the original firmware, if the battery gauge was reading full, but the battery voltage was low due to self discharge, I could not get the battery to charge properly as the charger was under the false impression that the battery was already fully charged and therefore it automatically stopped charging.
Try disconnecting the battery lead from the charger for a few minutes and then plug it back in again and see if the battery gauge drops to empty (mine did this when I removed the battery lead plug to take the photos showing how to check the battery voltage without removing the battery cover).

With the CANBUS USB cable and diagnostic software it is very easy to reset or even reduce the battery gauge level to allow the battery to charge correctly, but if you don't have access to to a CANBUS cable (and unplugging the battery lead doesn't work) then you will have to run it until the battery light comes on and hopefully resets the battery gauge.

Alan

prensel
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

I believe the ESD charger is keeping track of how many Ah go in and out of the battery.
So if you have two bikes with one full pack and one empty pack and you swap the chargers the charger with the then empty pack still has registered that the pack is full and never does a full charge.
I have experienced the same thing.
My solution was to install the Lairds charger firmware which doesnt seem to keep track of the Ah in and out but just measures the voltages to see if a charge is needed or not.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2007 #307
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2008 #2327 converted to 36S30P Li-Ion
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2011 #3243
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl FactFou

Aircon
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

OK, got the chargers between my Vectri swapped and the old one works in the new bike. Will need to run the battery down to red light as it only charged for 20 minutes or so.

Took photos of the process, but when I try to post they come out like this:

IMG_1357.JPG

Any ideas how to rotate them? If I double-click on them in my account a new tab opens and the pic is vertical, but I have yet to figure out how to do it in a message.

If anyone knows where a cheap ESD charger might be, I may be interested if the batteries are OK and I cannot fix this one.

-Randy

Is that the winter screen? Anyone know where I can buy one?

Kocho
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

Hence, need a CANBus adapter :-( It's pretty much a must-have for a Vectrix owner - to detect signs of potential problems before they become real ones (such as overheating or unevenly hot batteries on the NiMh bikes, or to monitor the individual cells on the Li bikes, and to install different firmware before the original one kills the battery)...

Edit: if the bike was at 130V after the ride yet the red light still came-up, I'm puzzled... The low voltage red light comes-up at something like 115-118V, if I remember... Randy, did you plug to charge immediately after the ride?

Bikemad
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What happens when the charger thinks the battery is full

My solution was to install the Lairds charger firmware which doesn't seem to keep track of the Ah in and out but just measures the voltages to see if a charge is needed or not.

Paul, unfortunately that's not quite correct, The laird's firmware does still seem to be checking the battery gauge value to confirm whether the battery actually needs to be charged.

I carried out a little test earlier today by manually setting the battery gauge to full (100%) using the diagnostic software and then switching on the charger. It immediately started charging at 6 Amps, but with a 60 second countdown. After ~15 seconds it quickly dropped to 1.3A with the 10 minute countdown indicating it was cooling off because the charge had been completed:

Although The Laird's firmware resets the battery gauge to zero if the battery voltage is below 130V when the bike is initially powered up.

I don't regularly use either of my two VX-1s but I try to keep enough battery capacity in one of them so that I can still use it at short notice if required without having to worry about a significantly reduced range. However, if the bike has not been used for a week or two, and I've been regularly "top up charging" the battery, the gauge will eventually fill up completely and the battery cannot then be properly charged until I either use the bike to reduce the battery gauge, or manually reduce it with the diagnostic software.

If the battery gauge was automatically reset in direct relation to the actual battery voltage on power up, it would make charging a self discharged battery a lot easier for me and the battery gauge should be more accurate too, although I suspect that the condition of the battery cells would greatly affect the accuracy of the gauge.

IMG_1357.JPG
Is that the winter screen? Anyone know where I can buy one?

Yes it is and you can buy one at Vectrixparts.com

Alan

EDIT: Links to photo updated.

prensel
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Re: What happens when the charger thinks the battery is full

Yes it is and you can buy one at Vectrixparts.com

Anyone got any response or emails from Vectrixparts lately ??
It didn't get any for weeks, are they out of business ??

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2007 #307
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2008 #2327 converted to 36S30P Li-Ion
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2011 #3243
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl FactFou

israndy
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Re: What happens when the charger thinks the battery is full

I JUST got my Kill Switch from Vectrix Parts. It arrived a week ago. I hope the are still in business as it appears I need a charger.

Also if you need a windscreen I just saw two or more of them for sale on eBay in the last month. Not sure if they were winter, but yes mine on the silver bike is a winter screen that I paid almost $300 for. I love it, keep it on all year as I am tall and the regular screen blow RIGHT in my face. Also my hands are covered with the winter screen so in the summer when I am gloveless I don't get so many bugs hitting my hands.

I don't own a PC to run the Vectrix software. Perhaps I just need to get one off eBay, but I have not seen a deal on the canbus adapters either, so I wonder if anyone in the Bay Area (SF) has the Vectrix Diagnostics setup that I might borrow???

-Randy

Also a new 2018 Tesla Model 3, a 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

zeuz
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Re: What happens when the charger thinks the battery is full

I don't own a PC to run the Vectrix software. Perhaps I just need to get one off eBay, but I have not seen a deal on the canbus adapters either, so I wonder if anyone in the Bay Area (SF) has the Vectrix Diagnostics setup that I might borrow???

You have totally missed this: PCan Peak USB - Canbus adapter on ebay

prensel
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Re: What happens when the charger thinks the battery is full
I don't own a PC to run the Vectrix software. Perhaps I just need to get one off eBay, but I have not seen a deal on the canbus adapters either, so I wonder if anyone in the Bay Area (SF) has the Vectrix Diagnostics setup that I might borrow???

You have totally missed this: PCan Peak USB - Canbus adapter on ebay

I have Peak CANBUS adapter with cable for sale if you need one.
PN me if you're interested

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2007 #307
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2008 #2327 converted to 36S30P Li-Ion
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2011 #3243
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl FactFou

JimmyB
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Re: What happens when the charger thinks the battery is full

I don't own a PC to run the Vectrix software. Perhaps I just need to get one off eBay, but I have not seen a deal on the canbus adapters either, so I wonder if anyone in the Bay Area (SF) has the Vectrix Diagnostics setup that I might borrow???

-Randy

Randy, I have previously loaned my CanBus adapter and cable to other members on here for the price of postage plus beer - would happily do the same for you but you'd still need to get hold of a windows PC running the ScooterDiag software.

Cheers

PS 'Steev' is in the SF Bay area, I think, if you can track him down.

Joshteacher
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Re: What happens when the charger thinks the battery is full

Randy, I can vouch for Jimmy B's offer. I've rented it to update my Vectrix with The Laird's firmware. It works!

israndy
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

DRAT! I just, JUST, purchased a cable on eBay. I guess as the owner of TWO Vectri I really should own a CanBus cable.

There were actually TWO for sale on eBay this AM, the one I didn't buy, because it is coming from China, is still there. I offered him $150 although the BuyItNow price was over $300, and I got a counter offer of $180. There are actually 2 available, so I guess technically there were 3 this morning. If you wanna check it out: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331312580301?item=331312580301

The one I ordered says 4 days shipping so I will just wait for that, and the gender bender I bought to plug it into the bike. I may be jumping to conclusions, but the cable that goes with the adapter is just a straight thru female to female DB9, no?

Sadly the new bike already will not start the charger, so I am gonna have to hook the two bikes together one last time to get the thing to charge. I'll then charge it all the way up after telling the charger the bike is empty using ScooterDiags.

I will still need the Vectrix software and the link I have seen here (http://websd-vectrixscenecom.webs.com/WEBPROTECT-filesmembersonly.htm) is still down, more than a week now. I understand there are several versions of ScooterDiag. I think the latest was 1.1 of the lithium aware version, but since I am not doing the upgrade right away the 2.1 of the original software would be the correct one for me to find, is that right? If anyone has an installer they can email me...

-Randy

Also a new 2018 Tesla Model 3, a 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

hanc18
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

i have a vectrix that is not running. i believe the batteries are ok but the charging system has a software problem. are there any dealers or repair shops who have any ideas on how to fix this problem. i live about 1/2 an hour away from chicago and glADLY have the bike towed to anyone that can help. thanks in advanced.

Steve
hancisme [at] aol.com

zeuz
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Re: Multiple Vectrix
israndy
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

OK, Got that installed, I assume that I am going to have to install drivers for the cord when it gets here. I assume that will stop the first error I am getting. I don't normally run Windows, I am on a bootcamp partition with NOTHING else on it. I assume there is something causing the error

Access to the path 'C:\Program Files\VectrixCorporation\VectrixDiagnosticsGUI_64\VectrixDiagnosticsToolMasterDataFile.xml' is denied.

Is Revision 1.0.2.1 the latest?

-Randy

Also a new 2018 Tesla Model 3, a 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

JimmyB
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

I never got it to work using bootcamp, not sure if anyone else has. I ended up buying an old XP laptop off ebay for $50 or thereabouts.

Magendanz
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

I never got it to work using bootcamp, not sure if anyone else has.

I run the Vectrix diagnostics software under Boot Camp all the time, but you're really setting up a clean install of Windows on a new partition. This takes time and significant disk space, so it's a pretty high price to pay to run just one app. Remember to run as an administrator.

israndy
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

OK, the new CanBus cable for $179 arrived (needed to be cleaned, how could it get this greasy?) and I hooked it to the bootcamp Win7. Sure enough it lights and lets me install the drivers from the internet.

This morning I tried to turn on the V but it was dead again, I have only ever been able to get the charger to run for a few minutes and the rest of the electricity was from the other bike. I guess when you connect the bikes via the lamp the resistance keeps too much power from actually transferring. So I hooked the lamp up again and transferring 10 minutes of power between them and the lamp was out. I then plugged the bike in and it charged for another few minutes and with the battery at 140 volts it stopped charging, full battery showing. I then hooked up the ScooterDiags app and was VERY happy to see it light up in recognition. I am still getting that error that says

Access to the path 'C:\Program Files\VectrixCorporation\VectrixDiagnosticsGUI_64\VectrixDiagnosticsToolMasterDataFile.xml' is denied.

It also defaults to Lithium. Is there a setting to take it to NiMH I can set? I checked the things I could learn about the bike, I found:

REV 3001 Battery Charger
REV 1148 Motor Controller
REV 1007 ICM

Gonna have to figure out if that is all current. I then started looking for the way to do a full charge from the ScooterDiags screen. I thought it was changing the percent charged on the dash, but I tried it and when I plugged in still showed 100%. I tried again and made sure to systematically check that I had done all I could to save the setting, I didn't have a camera so I forgot all I did, but when I plugged it in again, it showed the change I made. I had set the battery to 70% so I could have it just top up the battery, not force a full charge. Looks like that isn't a thing as when it started charging this time the batter dropped from 70% to 0%.

That is actually what I had hoped it would do all along, so I am super happy that it appears to be working now. I have 3 bars and it has been going for a half an hour or so.

Fingers crossed, but I still need to fix or to get a working charger for the other bike.

-Randy

Also a new 2018 Tesla Model 3, a 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

Magendanz
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

To clear that error accessing the XML file, you just need to run as an administrator. You can set that option in the Compatibility tab for the EXE.

israndy
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

Excellent, why are PCs so weird? Apps don't default to running with permissions? I guess I don't care anymore.

I drove the bike today. I put 20+ miles on it and it never gave a single complaint, except flashing the dash lights indicating I am missing the headlight and a turn signal, as I have not put the windshield or anything else back, beyond the charger, as I am sharing it between two bikes.

The whole way the battery showed 100%, same as when I first got it to charge. And the range never left the initial setting. Perpetual Motion?

So I plugged in the old bike to ScooterDiags and discovered that it is showing:

REV 2012 Battery Charger
REV 7-68 Motor Controller
REV 1008 ICM

So it looks like the new bike is running really old software. Probably if I upgrade to the current version the charger will work in either bike. Would love it if I could upgrade the charger in this bike and have it go back to working. I'll try while I am doing upgrades. Anyone know where I can get the REV 3001, 7-68, and 1008 that I need to upgrade the new bikes hardware? My mechanic who installed it on my old one is no longer servicing Vectri

-Randy

Also a new 2018 Tesla Model 3, a 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

Kocho
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

When the battery gauge does not decrease (or goes to 0 immediately), it is a sign that your charger and MC firmware versions are mismatched. Users "R" and "zeus" have previously shared links to download the softwares, see if you can find the posts. Also, if you get the Laird's charger software or a custom version from David, which I recommend you do to save you battery in the long term, they'll send you the right combination of MC and charger firmware.

The whole way the battery showed 100%, same as when I first got it to charge. And the range never left the initial setting. Perpetual Motion?
-Randy

israndy
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

I'll try to look, but I was looking all day and didn't find it. This system needs an index to find important things more easily. I did see R posting a link to VectrixParts but that is the Lithium firmware they have.

I was on David's site and posted the request to get the software, but haven't heard. I also could not find The Laird's .hqx either, so I contacted him and Sandy got back to me with a form letter to fill out. I sent it back this morning. Apparently The Laird is not ready for public distribution as there are TOO many variables distributing software for the VX-1.

But really I was hoping to find the original files that Vectrix was distributing back when I got my new battery pack in the old bike. I want the same software on both bikes and both bikes working first. then I'll play with upgrades. I'll continue looking for other links.

-Randy

EDIT: I found a reference from -R to a site: http://www.voltforum.cat Perhaps that is where the files are to be found. Unfortunately I was unable to get past the verification to join the site. I sent -R an email.

Also a new 2018 Tesla Model 3, a 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, and a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight

zeuz
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Re: Multiple Vectrix

EDIT: I found a reference from -R to a site: http://www.voltforum.cat Perhaps that is where the files are to be found. Unfortunately I was unable to get past the verification to join the site. I sent -R an email.

The security verification is in Catalan, so you might have problems in guessing what it means... ;-)

Another source for VX-1 firmware is: http://websd-vectrixscenecom.webs.com/WEBPROTECT-filesmembersonly.htm

P.S.:
You might what to read this thread: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

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