ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

992 posts / 0 new
Last post
MEroller
MEroller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 6 days ago
Joined: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:24
Points: 847
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Thanks a lot Phil for the encouragement, the CA-Details and the little video! It DOES sound different now, indeed no more low speed groaning, but a rather high pitched whine. And initial acceleration was really tired, or was your hand being gentle to the throttle? What I find rather distrubing about this high-tech Sevcon and it's PDT governing is that regen rocking back and forth once the wheel has come to a stop. To me it appears as if something had been overlooked in the controller programming. The Kellys continually reduce regen current when approaching standstill and call it their "anti-lock" function. On the stand regen simply brakes the wheel to standstill, and that's it, standstill. Oh well, probably this does not pose any problem in everyday use...

As for cutting cables, as long as I have warantee on my bike I won't even think about such acts of intentional vandalism on the main artery of my bike :-) But AFTER those two years...

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi MERoller,

I was accelerating as slow as possible because on the stand it will spin from 0 to 101km/h (real speed) in a split second. Yes the system sort of sounds like a quiet dentist drill, or a jet turbine. The sevcon does gradually decrease the regen current until the bike reaches a full stop. The bike works perfect when both wheels are on the ground, it's just has that wobble when the wheel is hanging free. As for cutting cables, the dealer is well aware of my technical qualifications and ability which is why he has made me the Canberra rep for erider in case someone needs repairs done. But at the moment, it's just me and my wife's scooters in Canberra.

As for that high pitch whine, I have been in my prius driving next to my wife on her erider scooter and when she "opens the throttle" it sounds like she just hit a turbo button or something and takes off like a jet! Damn, I wish I was 60kg!!

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

MEroller
MEroller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 6 days ago
Joined: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:24
Points: 847
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Ah, O.K. then. With mine it takes maybe 1.5 seconds from 0 to idle max rpm at full blast on the stand.
What causes that high-pitched whine, I wonder? As the frequency of the whine changes with rpm it cannot be power PWM which will normally operate at constant frequency, no matter what the rpm.
Maybe it is simply the commutation sound, and it comes out as a single dominant frequency with the Sevcon because it approximates a sine wave, wheras my Kelly Trapezoid is so infested with higher pitch overtones that the basic commutation frequency is masked by all those higher notes that make up the groaning noise at lower RPM?

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi Meroller,

I believe that the chinese controllers use a square wave PWM signal, whereas the Sevcon uses a Modified Sine wave PWM signal. The "whine" that you hear is actually coming from the Field Effect Transistors in the speed controller, as they switch slower at low speed the "whine" seems low pitch, and when you speed up the transistors have to switch faster and sound higher pitch, however this is usually not easily heard. The sound that we hear usually comes from the HIGH currents flowing through the motor windings. The current is so high it usually makes the motor windings vibrate due to huge magnetic forces, this is why motor winding are heavily glued down. It's an un-avoidable sound unless you make a motor with no wires inside. The reason chinese controller have a "groan" is because the motor windings are FULL north and then FULL south and pull and tug violently, a sine wave slowly varies from N to S at a frequency which our ears hear as a tone. You can make a speed controller with a high 25KHz sine wave so we would not hear anything but it's cheaper to make an 8 or 9khz controller because the FETs have to switch less, therefore cost less. Take the prius for example, on EV mode the motor and controller is DEAD silent, this is because the controller would be running at a high frequency above our hearing.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

MEroller
MEroller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 6 days ago
Joined: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:24
Points: 847
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Thanks Phil, most of that is absolutely clear to me :-) Wherever you have a coil through which alternating current flows, and some magnets opposite them, you have a kind of loudspeaker. The rotary solenoids ("torquer") we use to drive our EGR-valves (that is at my work) are quite efficient loudspeakers, and with the dawn of the more quiet common rail fuel injection in modern Diesel engines our 4kHz power PWM driving the torquers produced a whine audible even with the engine running. By chance we had hit the resonance frequency of the rotor :-)
A slight frequency change dimmed the squeak to acceptable levels again.
My Kelly reportedly uses 16.6kHz power PWM, which is beyond my around 13kHz hearing limit already. I have no idea what the Sevcons use, but that high pitched and rpm-variable whine from your motor should have nothing to with the controller frequency, but rather with the commutation, or so I suspect. We have a fair amount of pole pairs spread around our rear wheel rims, so it could well be the commutation itself that makes that sound? Some 28 pole pairs it should be. Multiply that by 1000rpm and divide by 60 yields a possible base frequency of 467Hz, which is definitely not that high-pitched whine. And I doubt that the controller MOSFET's would be so loud, but who knows???

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

MEroller
MEroller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 6 days ago
Joined: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:24
Points: 847
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

As the forum did not register my reply properly I will try again to get it registered as a new post :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

UPDATE: 5109km - 8 March 2012

I have some sad news...travelling home from work on 6 March 2012 I noticed the "clunking" sound again from the rear wheel, loose axle nut again. So when I got home I simply tightened it again (about a 1/4 of a turn) and the clunking went away. However it now feels like the steering is affected. I can no longer easily drive in a straight line, the bike is wanting to pull to the right and left all by itself. This makes it hard to drive steadily. Nothing seems wrong with the brake pads touching or anything. Has anyone experienced "heavy" steering or experienced the bike pulling left and right by itself?

I may try loosening the axle nuts tonight to see if that is the cause. My wife's bike still handles fine. By this I mean it seems to "glide" whereas mine now seems to wobble and pull down the road. Seeming as though this only started after I tightened the axle nuts, i'm pretty sure that's what it must be.

Any ideas?

Oh, and MEroller, as for the "whine" noise, however and wherever it comes from, I LOVE it! I think it sounds awesome! Kind of like George Jetsons car :)

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

PzlPete
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 7 months ago
Joined: Monday, June 22, 2009 - 08:38
Points: 157
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

PCarlson, I was trying to think if I ever tightened my axle nuts, and of course I did....I had a flat on my rear tire and completely removed it and reinstalled. I remember using a very large wrench to tighten it back as tight as it was and making sure that both axle bolts were as "far up" as they could go so the tire would be in alignment with the bike. Not sure if that helps? It sounds to me like one of your axle bolts is not completely in its holder. I did not have any wobble afterwards, even with the new larger tire. 7939 miles and counting....

Johnny J
Johnny J's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Tuesday, July 8, 2008 - 17:02
Points: 377
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Latest word from Mountain Chen, one more month before the 72V BMS is ready for production....

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Yes I'll be happy with a BMS on this bike. I also heard from eRider that two more bikes may be sold in Canberra :-) that means we won't be the only ones! Cool.

After talking with eRider and PDT and me pulling apart the bike and testing. We have worked out the problem with the stiff steering. Talk about service! ERider has posted the new part.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

Johnny J
Johnny J's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Tuesday, July 8, 2008 - 17:02
Points: 377
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Yes I'll be happy with a BMS on this bike. I also heard from eRider that two more bikes may be sold in Canberra :-) that means we won't be the only ones! Cool.

After talking with eRider and PDT and me pulling apart the bike and testing. We have worked out the problem with the stiff steering. Talk about service! ERider has posted the new part.

Which part was broken?

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

It looks like the bearings inside the steering column. I'll be able to confirm for sure when the new ones go in. New ones are in the mail.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

MEroller
MEroller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 6 days ago
Joined: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:24
Points: 847
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Oh oh, the steering head and steering bearing. If that is broken riding is outright life-threatening!!! Keep the bike sitting nicely on your porch until replacement comes...
And then comes the "fun" part, because adjusting the slack/tightness of this bearing is about the most tricky job on any motorcycle to get right, and in particular on our Chinese bikes, where it quickly becomes a safety relevant issue with judders and shimmys of all sorts hiding in those bearings, just waiting to pounce on you when you least expect them... I'm wishing you heaps of patience to get that just right :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Yeah. I've got the bike sitting still until I get the new bearings. After adjusting the bearings on mine it doesn't take much to find the right tightness. There is some tricks I've learnt over the years to get the right pressure to stop the shimmy and too loose to stop stiff turning. I'm just using my wife's blue scooter until the new bearings come in.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

MEroller
MEroller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 6 days ago
Joined: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:24
Points: 847
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Phil, are your tricks sharable? It would help a lot of folks (including me as I will probably have to care for my bike myself in the near future without my local dealer...) here to get to know some helpful tricks of the trade for this VERY crucial adjustment job :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I'm no where near a qualified mechanic so I'm not sure I should be giving "tips". But I've managed to replace head bearings on bicycles and used the same principal when adjusting the head bearing (the broken one) on my scooter.

You basicially put in a new lubed up head bearing in, then tighten the nut until you can't see it anymore, now for the fun bit. The trick I use is to GENTLY rock the bike (while on center stand) from back wheel to the front wheel. If you hear or feel a "clunk" when the front wheel lands, tighten another 1/8 of a turn. Keep doing this until there is no more clunk (play) in the head and give it one last 1/8 to 1/16 turn to "lock it in". Once adjusted correctly, you should be able to rock very hard onto the front wheel and only the suspension moves with no play in the bearing. I was shown this when I had to do the head bearing on my old bicycle so I used the same principals. If done right, the handles should easily move left to right when driving at 5-10km/h and swirving. This is the best test, not 80km/h!!

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Seeing all the new videos on YouTube from Erider in Melbourne, I decided to make another one myself yesterday. This time I took off the helmet visor and just wore the video sunglasses inside the helmet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI20nHIo1Tw&feature=g-upl&context=G22d0f6fAUAAAAAAAAAA

Here are the videos from my dealer "Erider" in Melbourne, Australia.
http://www.youtube.com/user/erider5000

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

Johnny J
Johnny J's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Tuesday, July 8, 2008 - 17:02
Points: 377
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Finally the temperature here in Sweden is above 10C, so yesterday I woke the scooter up from winter hybernation and took it out for a ride.
Wonderful!

Been riding today as well and noticed that the the battery voltage dips less after a couple of "wake up" cycles.

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

That's great news Johnny. Remind me again, are you using CHL 50Ah cells? I can't remember

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

Johnny J
Johnny J's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Tuesday, July 8, 2008 - 17:02
Points: 377
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

That's great news Johnny. Remind me again, are you using CHL 50Ah cells? I can't remember

Yes! (waiting for the BMS aswell...)

MEroller
MEroller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 6 days ago
Joined: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:24
Points: 847
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Thanks Phil for the explanation! To feel if I have play in the steering head I have put myself in a sort of trance, sitting on the ground in front of the front wheel with the bike on center stand. Then I grab hold of the front axle with both hands and gently begin to rock it back and forwards. Big play will be felt quickly, but when there is not much, that is were the trance part begins :-) Closing my eyes I can eventually feel even the slightest play in the head bearing.
The tightening itself I have not done myself yet, as I lack the appropriate tooling, but I would think the hardest part is finding the right spot for the main nut, so that when it is countered the play is as should be?

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi All. I got to pull apart the steering head this weekend and I found the bottom bearing had suffered a LOT of damaged and actually lost 2 ball bearings. So with the new bearing kit from Erider I replaced the top and bottom bearings along with a good amount of bearing grease and the bike is as smooth as a baby's bum again :) Perfectly smooth now.

one wheel.jpg
bearing.jpg

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

LeftieBiker
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: Saturday, July 9, 2011 - 04:36
Points: 886
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Was the original bearing greased? If so I would have been very hesitant to replace it with another Chinese bearing from the same manufacturer.

The "about $12" spanner I ordered from Sears (cost with shipping and a discount from an online sale: about $35) should be here tomorrow, so I will be tackling my own possible steering head issues this weak. If I find a destroyed bearing, I won't be replacing it. Hopefully it just needs to be tightened. Maybe once I'm finished with it I'll pass it around the group, as it appears this tool will be widely needed.

Rather than do a separate post in an obscure topic: I'm still looking for a return spring for my XM-3000's front caliper. A whole caliper assembly would also be an option, if no more than $50 shipped.

MEroller
MEroller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 6 days ago
Joined: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:24
Points: 847
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Boy oh boy, that looks BAD!!! Almost as bad as the complete wreck of a former steering head bearing from my old ICE Aprilia Scooter. Good thing you now a fresh set of whatever bearings up front! But if they fail again after a similar time I would also propose to look for higher quality replacment parts!

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I've got a feeling no one would sell parts to fit. But I'm just hoping it was a one off, my wife's Blue scooter is still steering and running fine. Now that I've got the new head bearings in, there's no more 'clunk' when I go over a bump. My bike has always done that, but not my wife's. I thought it was the shock absorbers because I'm a big guy. Now I'm thinking maybe it was the head bearing taking all those clunks. I rode into work today, first time in a while, and the bike now feels like you're floating on air, turns are silky smooth and the ride is effortless. Even though these bikes are made in China, when it all works, it is actually a very nice machine! I'm going over to China in a few weeks so I'll keep an eye out for some electric scooters!!

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Oh, to answer the question, YES the bearings were greased up, but there were marks on the bottom of the steering tube to show the bearings may have been installed incorrectly.

I also went for a nice big 80km ride with my wife on the weekend while wearing my sunglasses video camera, I'll have to edit and upload the video to my youtube page, because I have good video and audio of Amanda (my wife) side by side, then full throttle, and the high pitch whine as she blasts away from me at full throttle!

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

LeftieBiker
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: Saturday, July 9, 2011 - 04:36
Points: 886
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I believe you have mentioned that your wife is considerably lighter than you. That could be the only reason her steering bearing hasn't yet failed. The Chinese (like the Japanese earlier on, only worse) tend to design things for people the size and weight of an average Chinese person. She probably also rides a little less aggressively on average than you do.

Johnny J
Johnny J's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Tuesday, July 8, 2008 - 17:02
Points: 377
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I think the problem is that they haven´t tightened it properly in the factory causing uneven, extra heavy wear.

I got my Cycle Analyst today by the way! Just waiting for the "old passive" BMS from Mountain.

pcarlson1979
pcarlson1979's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 16:18
Points: 465
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I believe you have mentioned that your wife is considerably lighter than you. That could be the only reason her steering bearing hasn't yet failed. The Chinese (like the Japanese earlier on, only worse) tend to design things for people the size and weight of an average Chinese person. She probably also rides a little less aggressively on average than you do.

Yes she is a lot lighter than me but as for aggressiveness, she wins there! I'm a slower driver, she's a speed demon!

I now have around 5600km, she only has 1200km I think.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

LeftieBiker
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: Saturday, July 9, 2011 - 04:36
Points: 886
Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)
I believe you have mentioned that your wife is considerably lighter than you. That could be the only reason her steering bearing hasn't yet failed. The Chinese (like the Japanese earlier on, only worse) tend to design things for people the size and weight of an average Chinese person. She probably also rides a little less aggressively on average than you do.

Yes she is a lot lighter than me but as for aggressiveness, she wins there! I'm a slower driver, she's a speed demon!

I now have around 5600km, she only has 1200km I think.

So we won't know for a while if these scooters all have inadequate bearings.

Pages

Log in or register to post comments


Who's online

There are currently 0 users online.

Who's new

  • stuuno
  • marce002
  • Heiwarsot
  • headsupcorporation
  • OldTech

Support V is for Voltage