ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

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pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Yep. It must have been the 28°c weather yesterday. I rode into work this morning in the pouring rain and temperature is 17°c and under full power the voltage was sagging back down to 74.6v. Still, 74v is pretty good, better than the 70v during the colder months.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

high voltage an...
high voltage and high discharge BMS system's picture
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Very nice scooters, I am very happy here to meet your guys, I am a professional at battery protection and voltage solution technology, we are epecially engaged in this fields for more than 10 years, I hope there we can provide some sevice you need, most people know that a good scooter need match a high speed motor and top quality battery pack, but most guys maybe headache to meet the charge and discharge problem, that means a good BMS system to protect your battery pack is very important, we supply a series of top quality BMS with high discharge current is your ideal choice, I put a pic here, kindly hope you like it, I know there are maybe some professional guys know what I said, I hope we can have chance to further communication, thanks, our online catalogue is at www.szcoresun.com ,welcome you to have a look, thanks.
High discharge BMS.JPG

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Thanks for your offer,but our CHL have very good charactor,it don't need automatically balancing BMS,only several times manual balancing would be enough every year.

We have tried more than 10 different BMS during passed 2 years........ the result is very disappointed !

In China,most of active BMS is not stable and they will kill good battery sometimes !

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Thanks for your offer,but our CHL have very good charactor,it don't need automatically balancing BMS,only several times manual balancing would be enough every year.

In China,most of active BMS is not stable and they will kill good battery sometimes !

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Recieved the 2 new black Thunders today and the Puma motor.
It's a Quanshun marked 8000W 100V and it feels well made with thicker leads.
I have reprogrammed my Sevcon with a file from Mountain.
What I fear a little bit is that it might be slower than the original motor since I only have a 76,8V battery pack and the motor is rated for 100V..
I´ll find that out when I have put on the new tire and put the scooter together.
Pumamotor.jpg

LCJUTILA
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

How, where and from whom did you get that motor?

LCJUTILA

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

How, where and from whom did you get that motor?

Erider, Mountain Chen.

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Wow. You'll have to let us know how that motor goes! That looks awesome.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Update: 9 November 2012 @ 8779.8km
I rode 73.4km and used 50.55Ah. Here are my cell voltages after the ride and after 10 minutes rest (getting multi-meter and chair)
Pack voltage 63.2v no load. I had a Vmin of 60.9v

Even though I have the BMS there in place I still hate draining the batteries this much. But I managed to get home and the BMS didn't cut the power to the bike.

Cell 1: 2.81v
Cell 2: 2.72v
Cell 3: 2.78v
Cell 4: 2.78v
Cell 5: 2.75v
Cell 6: 2.76v
Cell 7: 2.78v
Cell 8: 2.75v
Cell 9: 2.82v
Cell 10: 2.79v
Cell 11: 2.76v
Cell 12: 2.76v
Cell 13: 2.62v
Cell 14: 2.75v
Cell 15: 2.79v
Cell 16: 2.77v
Cell 17: 2.80v
Cell 18: 2.81v
Cell 19: 2.69v
Cell 20: 2.74v
Cell 21: 2.82v
Cell 22: 2.78v
Cell 23: 2.57v
Cell 24: 2.60v

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Cell 23 is dangerously low!!! I would not recommend ever going much beyond 45Ah discharge with your battery, BMS or not, as a LiFePO4 cell at almost 2.5V at rest will most likely have gone well below 2V already while riding, and as it appears your BMS did not detect this and did NOT shut off the controller supply current. It does not seem to to have a working low voltage cut-off function!!!

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Cell 23 is dangerously low!!! I would not recommend ever going much beyond 45Ah discharge with your battery, BMS or not, as a LiFePO4 cell at almost 2.5V at rest will most likely have gone well below 2V already while riding, and as it appears your BMS did not detect this and did NOT shut off the controller supply current. It does not seem to to have a working low voltage cut-off function!!!

I don't trust this BMS except as a "last resort" because it uses a 2V cut-off instead of 2.5 like everyone else does....

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Don't worry about 2.0V protection,LFP could bear it,unlike LCP or LMP.

And this BMS is very sensive,as soon as it hit 2.0V and cut off the current.the voltage will float back to 2.5V or 2.6V in several seconds,don't have any damage to battery.

By the way,62V (2.6V on each cell) controller cut off will act as another protection because all cells are very equalization

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Mountain, the bad thing is that even during the final moments of Phil's last ride the BMS did NOT shut off, despite cell 23 having pretty surely dropped below the 2V threshold under load. That is the thing that worries me...

Phil, were there any high current moments during the last 2km of your last ride, currents in the region of 100A? Or was it just in "loitering mode", continuously below 50A?

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Mountain, the bad thing is that even during the final moments of Phil's last ride the BMS did NOT shut off, despite cell 23 having pretty surely dropped below the 2V threshold under load. That is the thing that worries me...

Phil, were there any high current moments during the last 2km of your last ride, currents in the region of 100A? Or was it just in "loitering mode", continuously below 50A?

Phil's last riding already 60.3V on controller,which means controller cut off the power,and all cells are equalization !

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

No, power was NOT cut, if I understand this sentence correctly:
"But I managed to get home and the BMS didn't cut the power to the bike."
Not by the BMS (which probably should have cut the power), nor by anything else.

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

It' not sure that any cell went below 2V, you really need a cell based logging device to test that.

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi everyone.

I've been busy installing another BMS unit on a thunder scooter.

When I got into my local area in the 60kmh zones I slowed down to 40-50kmh and once I got over 49Ah I paid a LOT of attention to the voltage and current to make sure I didn't hurt anything. When I noticed that very light acceleration was dropping the voltage below 65v I lowered my speed to match. I was in "limp home" mode. Keeping maybe 20kmh once I passed 50Ah. I was barely pulling 15-25Amps. When I got home my Amax was only 136A which would have been on the freeway at 100kmh.

Once home I checked all the cells then put it on charge whilst I went out to dinner in our electric car.
In the morning I checked all the cells again and they were all around 3.64v to 3.65v. Cell 23 was 3.65v and riding into work I noted I was once again pulling 125A and voltage dropping to 74.9v to 75.2v at full throttle. So it looks like the BMS is doing its job. I've tested LiFePo4 cells in the past and permanent damage usually occurs at 1.8v and it all downhill from there. I was worried that this BMS shuts down at 2.0v but it seems to work fine (so far).

But next time I have to make so many long trips in a day, I'll take the electric car.

So I must really hand it to CHL for making such a great battery cell.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Thanks Phil for clarifying. So it was you who was careful enough to keep cell 23 above 2V and your BMS from shutting off :-)

Are you turning into an Erider dealership in Canberra? Or just an extended arm of Eric?

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Lol. I was driving to prevent the low voltage cut-off. Granny driving was a lot faster than me on that day. I had my left blinker on hugging the left side of the road rolling at 15kmh desperate to get home. Because I know how heavy these scooters are to push.

Yes I help out eRider with service or repairs. This way Canberra region buyers can just come to me rather than 650km to Melbourne. For example, to get a BMS installed.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

LeftieBiker
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

"Granny driving was a lot faster than me on that day. I had my left blinker on hugging the left side of the road rolling at 15kmh desperate to get home. Because I know how heavy these scooters are to push."

Been there, done that! On the longest ride I ever took on the ZEV, I swear I was running on virtual particles the last three miles.

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Thank you very much !

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

UPDATE: 21 November 2012 @ 9041km

After a big ride after work yesterday I passed 9000km on my eRider PDT Electric scooter. Not long until I hit 10,000km now. I think I'll put some stats up when that happens.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

Omange
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)
Oh, one question to pcarlson: Did you order (and are now riding) the "fleet" version of Lighting Bolt TD4? That one fits your descriptions best.

And Johnny J, do you by any chance know which Sevcon controller is fitted to your 8kW Thunder? I am just wondering a bit what Mountain Chen (or possibly Erider Australia themselves) are doing with these scooters. Your 8kW Thunder should be according to the Plugin-DriveTech spec which is becoming increasingly popular around the globe (for good reasons :-), and the way I understood Mr. Chen the smaller G8018 controller is supposed to be included in the 8kW Thunder. But pcarlson reports the bigger G8035 to be driving his 8kW Lightning, and I suspect that may be Erider Australia's doing, as they say it "has been specially prepared and customised for the mass market."

Yes the controller is the Sevcon Gen4 8035.
The scooter is the Fleet version TD4 so it has the 8000w rear hub, not the 4.5kw hub and reinforced front and rear forks to stop the splaying out.

I'm looking forward to the long weekend for more riding.

I have seen you have installed HID lights. It is strange with so much available in LED lights you have opted for this technology

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

@Omange: Did you see Phil's fotos and I think even a youtube video on the illumination power of those HID lights? There has yet to be created a LED-powered headlight that would fit that scooter's headlight setup and be as luminous as those HID lights are!

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I didn't even know LED's were bright enough for headlights until I got my Nissan Leaf.

The HID's are working fine so far. No problems at all. I drove home last night at 10pm and they were easily bright enough to light my way home, a BIG improvement over the supplied 35w halogen bulbs.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Phil, any updates on your summer riding with increadible heat, let alone fires? I would think your battery will get REAL hot when ambient temp. reaches over 35°C?

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Was thinking the same thing the other day, hope you are doing ok Philip?

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi everyone.

Yes I am still alive. I haven't been on here for a while. Wow

Yes we had some hot days in the Christmas summer, up to 49c and the scooter struggled. I was delivering mail doing a letter box drop and with all the stop and go I got the motor overheat warning and my power was reduced. I could still drive, it was just slower. After a 10 minute wait everything was fine.

The reason I chose HID is because the 35w HID's use the same power as the 35w halogen bulbs but are around 5 times brighter.

I now have 9420km on the scooter and it is going fantastic. I had a 6 week holiday and left the bike unplugged. After 6 weeks I plugged it in the night before work and the batteries only lost 1.3Ah through self discharge. I rode into work the next day and forgot just how good it felt to ride this bike. Fast, zippy and smooth.

I did a cell check and all the cells are all hovering around the 3.64 to 3.65v area. I didn't write all the values down this time :-).

I have completed my own EVSE charging station for my electric Nissan leaf car. In America there's a shop called "Home Depot" and you can buy a charger there for $699. Here in Australia the SAME charger costs $4999. So that is why I built my own.
http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/EVSE_LORDSn1per

Anyway back on topic. My wife has been riding her scooter too and still no problems. Apart from spider webs :-)

The scooters are really turning out to be very reliable.

I am Finally off my P plates now!

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Good to hear from you, Phil! 49°C?! That is unbearable even for humans, never mind an electric hub motor!
And congratulations on your fully fledged motorcycle licence!!!

I will be participating in a motorcyle safety training in April this year, with my elctric Thunder. I wonder if it will manage to get through everything and still have enough charge left to get me back home afterwards.

Oh, and I wanted to ask you what DC-DC-converter you got for your HID lights: was it the Kelly KDCC7213.5-400-5W 30A 72V/13.5V, 400W converter? I had that one firing my 12V DC-230V AC 300W inverter to heat my battery (115...120W) at work from battery power, and it worked for just two weeks. Now it blows the 15A input fuse every time I apply battery voltage?!

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I bought this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/202343302.html
But it seems it's no longer available from this supplier at least, paid only 55,49 including freight.
Seems to be working fine with my HID.

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