Vectrix Owners - New & Prospective

Hi to all Vectrix owners and prospective owners

Been hanging around in the background for a few months now but thought it was about time I said hi

Today was the day I had my first test ride on a vectric, WOW!!

I currently use a 600cc bike for commuting a round trip of 35 miles and i'm due for a change and I think the vectrix is it

A man from vectrix arrived to my home with a bike in the van and he let me take it for a run of about 8 miles on local roads. The acceleration was very close to my existing bike, the handling is awsome, the regen braking works a treat. But all of you know all of this.

I have been reading the reports and problems by various people on here and its been interesting

Would love to hear more before I make the decision

I noticed on one of the photos that duca has a Givi? top box on his bike, is it a Givi box and where could i get the bracket?

Peter
Central Scotland

Well I asked my work if I could charge the Vectrix up a couple of times a week and they said NO. :-(

They said it would be too costly to put in a metered outlet so would not be financially viable.

Any free use of company electricity for non work related activities would be seen as a benefit and would incur tax implications for the employee

Has anybody else had the same negative response and have you managed to get them to change their minds?

Peter
Central Scotland

Any free use of company electricity for non work related activities would be seen as a benefit and would incur tax implications for the employee

Okay, and does it make any difference if the cost for the electricity is small? What is your cost per kilowatt-hour of electricity? These other vectrix owners should be able to tell you the number of kilowatt hours for a recharge. On my motorcycle it's 3 kilowatt hours for a full recharge and at U.S. rates that's about US$0.30 for a recharge.

Sounds like time to find a new job. You work for some real a-holes.

I have the same problem at my job. When I met with the environment folks, they asked me if I knew that in Colorado, Electricity comes from COAL. (doesn't make it right).
Recently I sent an E-mail to ask if they had an update on my request for power. The reply referred to a report that Hybrid Vehicles were using more water to create electricity and could be a problem in drought stricken states. (also not right).

Remind them that is easier to put, run and maintain emission controls on a non moving, relatively constant speed coal plant than a moving variable speed car. And they can work better too. Also coal is domestic, so more of the cost of transportation stays here.

Well I asked my work if I could charge the Vectrix up a couple of times a week and they said NO. Sad

Peter, do you get much sun or wind there? I know it's a long shot, but could you install a wind generator/solar panels, and a battery to store the charge anywhere at or near your work? This is kind of an idea I had a while back because I was tired of the negative reaction. I thought, why not be totally self sufficient, and turn a disadvantage into an advantage? That will communicate volumes to anyone who happens to see it charging.

Solar Charging station

Here's a neat concept pic posted by Gman (when he was still around) and it even has a vectrix 8) :

pyjohnson:
Has anybody else had the same negative response and have you managed to get them to change their minds?

Yes, and nope. Usually they really just don't care. It was my thought that I could possibly set up a solar charging station, and I wouldn't need to bend over backwards to convince people, in fact they may want it. Then, let their sentiment change on it's own once they see that EVs don't need to rely on any one form of energy.

That was just an idea. I've not been very successful in convincing anyone.

Ok, the solar charging station pic must have come from the Vectrix Shareholder Report. It was posted here:
Vectric Shareholder Report Shows Promise For Electric Super Bikes

A recharging station like that would cost lots of money. As an expensive widget it would require business people to see justification for the investment, and they're unlikely to find it.

It's a lot less expensive to simply have a grid-tied power outlet .. especially since it's already very well understood how to build outdoors power outlets that can be safely rained on. These are trivially inexpensive to build, and would require much less thought from the business person to do the justification.

I think, okay, sure, it would be way cool to have a solar powered recharging station. But... if it's going to be so expensive that it's probably not going to be installed, then why do it? Why not just go for the inexpensive known technology?

A recharging station like that would cost lots of money. As an expensive widget it would require business people to see justification for the investment, and they're unlikely to find it.

Which is exactly why I mentioned cheap components in Solar Charging station. I'm not talking about a commercial charging station. Instead, using donated/recycled components including used/old solar panels, old UPS or other batteries which can still hold some charge (just put a bunch in parallel), ect. Being resourceful makes a lot more sense for someone doing this as a project.

I got the same kind of negative reaction when trying to explain this to others. *sigh* Doesn't anyone see beyond money? It's not about business, or the cost at all. It's about sending a message in the short term for right now, and using what resources/donations you have to make it work. Eventually we will have charging stations, but like I said, the sentiment now is negative and few people and businesses would agree to set these up.

What is your cost per kilowatt-hour of electricity?

I only asked to use about 6kWh twice a week which is about £1.20 a week!

Peter, do you get much sun or wind there? I know it's a long shot, but could you install a wind generator/solar panels, and a battery to store the charge anywhere at or near your work?

I don't think we get enough sun to power a solar station, wind maybe but this sort of technology and investment has not really taken off over here yet so no old stuff lying around to use, but I like the idea.

The trouble with my work is it's a bit slow on the uptake of new technology for employees use or benefit; don't want to be giving preferential treatment to any one person

It's funny really because as a company we make some of the most technologically advanced products in the world in our field

I'm sure in time they may change; it might just take a while

Still doesn't put me off a Vectrix, it'll just get charged more often at home

I thought this might work but when I contacted Sound Speed on the Alpha EV-500 coming out for a 60V system, they said it was not supported. I sent an E-mail to Alpha but no response yet.

http://www.soundspeedscooters.com/ev_500

New writer joining the forum:

Summary of my experiance-

-I live in Canton, Georiga USA. I live in a hilly, rural area where the roads are 35 MPH to 45 MPH speed limits.
- Bike delivered mid January with 46 miles on it. I now have 979 miles on it
- Purchased from the US New England "Flagship" store. They drove the bike down in a van, delivered it to my door.
- I am 6'2" and 210 lbs, ride with full gear
- normal ride is 20 mile commute to work, 45 - 50 MPH the whole way. Arrive with ~10 MPH showing on the range and 1/4 bars. Full charge at work, reverese commute on the way home
- based on "real world" rides during the week and the weekend, normally with my 11 year old daughter on the back, lessons learned.
- real world range is 20 - 25 miles with speeds between 35 - 45 MPH. If you "burst" speeds into the 60+ for traffic, you will cut range <20.
- I have tried short time charging when the range is showing <10 miles and have found it useless. 30 minutes, 45 minutes, even 90 minutes have not gotten me even 5 more miles. Do not trust your range indicator, or even your charge bars, learn what your bike can do based on where you are riding and how you ride. To be clear, we are talking a very small window on my max range, from 20 - 25 miles going 35 - 50 miles and hour, with an average of about 40-45 MPH. We are splitting hairs here, but depending on the side roads I take, my distance is 19.3 - 20.7. With a large hill on the way home at mile 19, if I have been throttle happy and close to 50 MPH too long, the bike will die to a very slow crawl.
- Hard lessons: The range will show 10 - 12 miles, and I will be 1 bar below half, if I throttle up or exceed 35 MPH the bike will die. If I stay at 25 MPH or below, you can make it about 3 or 4 miles. When you are looking for plugs, look behind soda machines, ice machines, lighted signs at banks, and the back side of sub divisions entrances. Dress for the weather, you will be sitting there for at least 2 hours. Very frustrating when you are only 2-3 miles from home.
- regeneration braking. Cool feature, but I have not seen any real noticable increase in range at the speeds I am moving.
- Problems so far:
1. when delivered, large scratch on the rear panel and dash. No big deal really, next time a bike was delivered in the state a tech took it for two days (picked it up at my house, brought it back) replaced them, and upgraded the software.
2. 4/3, after a normal ride to work, came out and the bike had only charged 3 miles and 2 bars, to just over half. I tried to plug it back in, but the bike didn't "boot" with the lights and fans. I tried to make it home, no luck, ended up having the wife come out with the pick up and a ramp. By the way, at 500+ lbs, don't let it die all the way or there is no way one man can get it up a ramp into a pick up. Was not easy to tie down either, no obvious tie down points. I really wish there was a center stand as well. Reported the issue to Vectrix in New England by phone and email. Email response was quick, return phone call the next day. The believe it is the charging fuse or charger, and a tech will fly down next week for the repair. I will keep the forum updated.

No issues with the throttle as other have reported.

Minor issues - I hate the key. Not smooth at all. Weather has been cold, ride in 30F - 60 F, and not easy to use with gloves. The glove compartment is very cheap feeling to open and close. The under seat storage fits a gallon of milk, eggs, bread, but won't take a lap top bag. I have had to use a soft case to put my work shoes and PC, then slide it in sideways and jiggle it. That makes the spring a pain. Also, a full face helmet and gloves need to be jiggered around to make it close. If someone knows how I can close and lock the seat with the cord out, please share.

Overall, a great commuter scooter for work or local running around. Never plan on total trip to exceed 20 miles, and expect 3 hours of down time if you can plug in. Carry a properly rated extension cord or you are going to be real frustrated.

If you work in those limits, you will be very happy, but at the edge of the range, and we are only talking a mile or two here, you get just a little throttle happy in traffic and it is a slow crawl back home.

I do wish that Vectrix would have the lights flash when it goes into crawl mode, as I turn into a target on the country roads as I crawl at the edge of the road. Pick up trucks can't figure out if I have a problem, or am just a stupid kid on a toy bike.

Share any questions, glad to be part of the group.

Hi Erik,

I live in a hilly, rural area .....

When you say hilly, what is a typical altitude difference on your commute?

Peter
Central Scotland

Thank you Erik for your precious report.

Altitude difference of +/- about 200 ft. Follow the attached link for a half marathon course near my home to see the grade/rate of change.

http://www.alpharettamarathon.com/images/halfcourselg.jpg

- real world range is 20 - 25 miles with speeds between 35 - 45 MPH. If you "burst" speeds into the 60+ for traffic, you will cut range <20.

My height, weight and terrain are quite similar, and I get just a little more range at slightly higher speeds. All done during a wet summer in Australia, though.

My Vectrix has a real world range of 40km in hilly country, with 111kg total pay load on board, 187cm height. About half of the course is 80km/h speed limited, the rest 70km/h or 60km/h.
There are about 20 traffic lights each way in my commute, it's 19.5km each way and I still can't recharge at work (parked next to a working power point!).
I have to give full throttle at just about every stop to keep up with the traffic after working my way to the front of the line at lights.
.

- I have tried short time charging when the range is showing <10 miles and have found it useless. 30 minutes, 45 minutes, even 90 minutes have not gotten me even 5 more miles.

I have had to do occasional topup charges and found that the range increase was as I expected. Measurement of power consumption during charging also shows that the bulk of the energy goes into the batteries in the first two hours of charging; peak power consumption is usually after about 30min on the charger.
I do not understand why you get only 8km range increase after 90min.
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Do not trust your range indicator, or even your charge bars, learn what your bike can do based on where you are riding and how you ride.

It's also known as the "Random Number Generator".
But, to give it credit, it faithfully announced 40km range after recharging yesterday. The displays behaviour is strongly dependent on the software version you are running.
Maybe the range indicator is learning... but if that is the case, it learns a lot slower than myself...
The previous estimates at end of charge were 49 and 43km.

.

To be clear, we are talking a very small window on my max range, from 20 - 25 miles going 35 - 50 miles and hour, with an average of about 40-45 MPH. We are splitting hairs here, but depending on the side roads I take, my distance is 19.3 - 20.7. With a large hill on the way home at mile 19, if I have been throttle happy and close to 50 MPH too long, the bike will die to a very slow crawl.

Not splitting hairs at all: If my Vectrix Tech here in Oz is right then the repeated crawling up steep hills with a low battery causes incremental damage to the fuse until it blows under no particular load.
See: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2977-open-letter-vectrix-corp
Personally I believe a fuse with a slightly higher rating would fix the problem.
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Was not easy to tie down either, no obvious tie down points.

This is the wrong way because you risk damage to the throttle:

The right way is to use the metal tie down points on the front fork - look in through the front fairings and you'll see them. It took a bit of convincing to get the tow-truck driver to use them, but it works well. They could probably also be used to winch or tow the scooter onto trailers etc. (I have not tried it yet, though).

.

I really wish there was a center stand as well.

I have been asking for one since months now, and now my side stand is broken and held up with occy-straps!

.

If someone knows how I can close and lock the seat with the cord out, please share.

Take out the rubber seal in the front corners of the boot - you will otherwise loose them when you pull stuff out of the boot. Put the cable in the gap, push down the seat. You might have to push the seat down a bit when you turn the key to open it again to relieve some pressure on the latch.

.

Overall, a great commuter scooter for work or local running around. Never plan on total trip to exceed 20 miles, and expect 3 hours of down time if you can plug in. Carry a properly rated extension cord or you are going to be real frustrated.

Also carry a line splitter - I once had to stay with the scooter to plug in the vending machine every time a customer wanted to use it...
.

If you work in those limits, you will be very happy, but at the edge of the range, and we are only talking a mile or two here, you get just a little throttle happy in traffic and it is a slow crawl back home.

...which might damage your fuse and make you very un-happy. I consider my Vectrix unreliable and too dangerous to take passengers on it until the fuse failures have been definitely solved. A "Great" commuter does not just stop in mid-traffic....
It also needs much more grunt from a standstill start (only a fraction of the power is currently available at start) and the noise issue needs to be solved. My Vectrix is embarrassingly loud at 35km/h.
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I do wish that Vectrix would have the lights flash when it goes into crawl mode, as I turn into a target on the country roads as I crawl at the edge of the road. Pick up trucks can't figure out if I have a problem, or am just a stupid kid on a toy bike.

Good idea! Or at least a manual warning light switch that also still works when the main fuse is "open".

Thanks for your detailed report!

Mr. Mik

Range: Now that you mention "just a little bit better" I wonder of temp has anything to do with it? 95% of my rides have been 60F or less. My last few rides have shown between 3-5 miles better remaining range with the temps between 60-75F.

Software Version: where can we find it and compare? Wonder if Vectrix posts the enhacements in each version. The tech and sales guy says they hope at some poitn to send out a disc for your laptop or a thumb drive for owner self service. Have you heard the same?

Fuse: two things, it does not seem like I'll be either buying one at the Auto Parts Store or changing it myself. Very cool pictures on how what the guts look like. Second, I wonder if the hills in general are causing my issue?

Tie Down: just went to the garage and found those points and tied on the straps. The angle will be tough in the pickup truck, a little worried the plastic fairing won't be able to take the pressure. But, much better than how I had it tied down.

Center Stand: the tech says there is some safety rating the bike can't pass with the center stand. Tip over angle or something? Anyone ever heard of that?

Cord Gaps: found them! Now I can store some gear in there and lock it up.

Line Splitter: excellent idea, I will add it to my gear.

Off the line: while I would not say it is sporty, mine has kept up with traffic. The last 4 miles of my trip each day has 6 lights, and I do have folks honking or pulling around me. We can't sneak to the front at a stopped light though, against the rules here.

Noise: are you talking wind buffet by being over the wind screen? (being tall, huge difference when I slouch back or crouch down inside the slip stream) or rotor/engine noise? Mine is so quiet I can hear my cell phone rining in my bag in the boot. On weekend rides we often hear cows mooing (my daughter moo's back) as well as the dogs barking that chase us.

What has me worried is the facts that jump out at me, ne post says ~130 bikes sold, and we have what, 4 or 5 bikes in this post alone with similar issues? Throttle, full dead bike, and then the fuse issue. Am I going to be stuck with a great idea who's time has not come yet? Maybe I can sell mine to the NYPD....

My hope is the service will reflect the premium price I paid. We will see.

Range:
Software Version: where can we find it and compare? Wonder if Vectrix posts the enhacements in each version. The tech and sales guy says they hope at some poitn to send out a disc for your laptop or a thumb drive for owner self service. Have you heard the same?

AFAIK you can only see it when the scooter is connected to a computer via the data cable.
It might be possible to work out what version a particular scooter has by comparing features and update dates. The technicians should always update the software to the latest version when a scooter is being serviced.
Differences between OS versions include:
Range estimate gradually reduces vs. is dynamic (increases again when going down hill, the Random Number Generator.)
Headlight being able to be switched off or both high and low being able to be switched on together whilst driving.
There are also several different software pieces in each scooter at the same time.
On March 19th, 2008 my scooter had these versions installed:
ICM: REV 1007
Instrument Cluster: Rev D
Battery Charger: REV 2010
Motor Controller: REV 1012

I wonder if the hills in general are causing my issue?

I think it is likely. I asked Vectrix for a graph displaying range as a function of terrain, rider weight and other variables in my first email to them, but no answer yet (it's only been half a year...).
They do not know, unless they read these reports. It remains to be seen if any scooters run for long enough to be tested by the same rider over the same terrain throughout the seasons. This might clarify what temperature does to the scooter (during riding and charging).[/quote]

Center Stand: the tech says there is some safety rating the bike can't pass with the center stand. Tip over angle or something? Anyone ever heard of that?

The side stand should not pass safety standards either because it tends to break the retaining pin for the springs if it gets just a little loose. Poor design.
It might be too low to the ground with a centre stand. Security guards testing the Vectrix for government fleet purposes told me they were not happy with the scooter because it cannot go up standard gutters (they are quite high around here).
A center stand would probably change a scaping into a thumping HALT when it hits the kerb!

Off the line: while I would not say it is sporty, mine has kept up with traffic. The last 4 miles of my trip each day has 6 lights, and I do have folks honking or pulling around me. We can't sneak to the front at a stopped light though, against the rules here.

Any typos in there? You seem to contradict yourself...

Noise: are you talking wind buffet by being over the wind screen? (being tall, huge difference when I slouch back or crouch down inside the slip stream) or rotor/engine noise? Mine is so quiet I can hear my cell phone rining in my bag in the boot. On weekend rides we often hear cows mooing (my daughter moo's back) as well as the dogs barking that chase us.

It is a loud engine or gear box noise, worst at 35km/h. WE-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we...
Like the ants in the movie "Formicula". I am not sure if the wind just covers that noise at higher speeds, but I think it gets quieter at higher speeds.

Mr. Mik

Off the line: typo, the do not honk or move around. I do vary speed to keep in the gap, lots of idiots with cell phones, coffee and soda that are not looking for bikers. I've been very happy with the real brakes in traffic, and satisfied with the pick up in the 25 MPH - 35 MPH range between the lights.

Noise: when I get the bike back on the street, I'll get my little girls opinion. More often I have issues with joggers, dog walker and cycle riders in the neighborhood moving into my path because they can't hear me (25 MPH around the house).

My Vectrix is fast enough off the line to keep up, too.

I would however very much prefer to be able to outrun most cars - and with a 20kW engine that should be possible allright. Then I could just make my way to the front of the line each time and safely get away, before being jammed between traffic next to me and the traffic threatening to merge via the "Turn at any time with care" lane.

For now I sneak in between the first and second car behind the traffic lights.

AFAIK Vectrix designers have electronically limited the power between 0km/h up to 45km/h. I'm not sure why, maybe to prevent damage to the electronics from large currents or to reduce the impact on range?

Mr. Mik

Probably that, to reduce heating, and to reduce mechanical stress on the drive train. Acceleration can take a lot of power, and cut the range by a lot. The existing performance could be cut back saving range if desired. It would be helpful if they had a low power mode for doing this. It could also likely be improved cutting the range if desired. An xp mode would be nice as well.

I noticed something very interesting BTW, in regards do your noise problem. Here's from the Gearbox tech page:

The unit is sealed and permanently lubricated, requiring no maintenance for the expected life of the scooter.

Sealed lubrication w/ vented oil reservoir

What kind of lubrication do they use? Maybe it would help to change the oil, and put some thicker stuff in if it is oil lubricated. If it is grease lubricated, than that explains the gear problems.

What kind of lubrication do they use? Maybe it would help to change the oil, and put some thicker stuff in if it is oil lubricated. If it is grease lubricated, than that explains the gear problems.

I am not sure if it is really gear box sound.
I was told it might also be electro magnetic whistle from the eddy currents produced by the VFD (variable frequency drive), especially if it does not get louder with increasing speed.
I have made a video of my Vectrix riding past at different speeds and it's uploading to youtube since 13hrs now. The video confirms my impression that my Vectrix is very loud, and also that it gets quieter at higher speed - it's not just the wind noise covering the noise of the motor/gearbox/VFD.

The noise might be an excellent kangaroo deterrent...

Mr. Mik

Update on my dead bike: quick summary - reported issue on 4/3 via phone and email, got a call back the next day (Friday) that they would develop a plan. Today, 4/7 Monday afternoon they have arranged to have a tech fly down and pick up my bike Friday 4/11 and work on it all weekend to have it back Monday 4/14. Their plan is to replace the whole charging system and take it back to tear it apart and figure out what the issue is.

Anyone know if the suspected fuse discussed in other threads is a part of the charging system or is it an "in line" fuse to between the power/charge system and the motor itself?

I ask because I am wondering if the reverse charge going back into the system from an aggressive use of the regeneration on the throttle may cause it. I was for sure trying to "sprint/drift/charge", as the range was 17 and I needed to get to 19-20 and was trying to get the advertised 5-10%.

Anyone know if the suspected fuse discussed in other threads is a part of the charging system or is it an "in line" fuse to between the power/charge system and the motor itself?

The motor controller fuse is the big thing on the left.
It looks to me like nothing gets in or out of the battery unless it goes through that fuse.

.

The next pic shows the same circuit board with it's cover on:

I do not know if there is a separate fuse in the charging system.
.
Your main fuse = motor controller fuse is intact, because your scooter was still moving.
When the motor controller fuse is "open" then nothing works, although the charger will still consume it's usual 120W of standby power if you plug it in. You might hear a quiet click and the light in the boot flickers occasionally when you try to charge with an open main fuse.

The big silver thing is the charger:

Mr. Mik

Hello
I've been looking for a Vectrix owner/user forum for ages and finally came across this one.
I don't currently own one but been pondering for a while.
I live in London UK and currently ride a petrol scooter (Vespa Granturismo 200cc), that is my only mean of transportation. I do an average of 10000kms a year. So my question isn't "shall I switch to a scooter from public transport or car" but shall I switch to a Vectrix when my Vespa dies (probably by the end of this year).
Up until now I've only read biased reviews by the manufacturer, resellers and those who only went to a test drive. Finally I've been reading "real world" reviews. I really enjoyed Mr Mik's extensive trials and thoughts (thanks mr), but I still cannot decide whether it would be cost effective for me to switch. As I said, my motorcycle is for life not for leisure and I'm not in a position financially to make a rather expensive mistake. I appreciate any advice and will continue to read what you guys (real users) make of your ownership.

H

Hermes,

I assume from these reviews, you are probably reconsidering! Based on the discussions here, it is very sad something so promoted and so expensive, ends up being as unreliable and with the same exaggerated range per charge claims as the cheapest Chinese electric scooters. Then again, is this forum a biased sample of Vectrix owners? People who are not experiencing problems are less likely to hunt this forum down.

It seems the biggest problem is over-complexity of it's control systems - without offering any added benefits over simple. Also, at this point, it's NiMH pack is already approaching obsolescence. Even the cheaper Chinese LiFePO4's with a simpler battery management unit are probably cheaper, can be faster-charging and more abuse proof.

Sgmdudly wrote a while back:

I have the same problem at my job. When I met with the environment folks, they asked me if I knew that in Colorado, Electricity comes from COAL. (doesn't make it right).

Some "environment folks".

I am allowed to plug in at work - I simply explained that employees are already allowed to have small heaters and toaster-ovens in their offices - both of which consume at least twice the power and even watt-hours as my charger. But I work for a US government agency which are generally more reasonable in employee matters.

As far as the coal issue, electric vehicles have a much smaller carbon footprint compared to a similar gasoline or diesel vehicle even assuming the typical 50% coal-generation in the US grid. And, also, hopefully, very soon under a new administration, the US will wake up and start putting measures in place to reduce the amount of coal in the mix.

Real-world measurements of electric scooter efficiencies are discussed a some length here:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/1509