Vectrix Owners - New & Prospective

Hello PJD
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I am not in the position of spending just under £7000 to regret it in 2 years or so. I really like the Vectrix model, I like that it's "green", I like that it's going to save me £500 of petrol a year, I like that (in theory) is not going to cost me £150 a service every 3 months or so. But isn't it ?
There are some big issues that haunt me here and I can only speak of my particular situation in London UK.
1) The only place in London that sells it is Harrods, a shop, not a regular retailer with engineers/mechanichs on site. What happens if/when things go wrong?
2) A year old product that hasn't documented feed back on its performance in XXX number of years/miles/kilometers.
3) Price. If it did what it said on the label it would probably be worth the inflated price tag. But, will it? What have I got to go by?

I'd really like it to be true, but I'm not after a new toy that may or may not work and it doesn't really matter afterall.
One thing would swing my mind.
For £5000 I (and many others) would be willing to go for it as it would mean no loss (hopefully) on a 5 year span.
I really don't know. I'd love it to be good and it's certainly a step in the right direction but even wealthy people are not that careless as their (Vectrix) disappointing sales announces.

I have tried short time charging when the range is showing <10 miles and have found it useless. 30 minutes, 45 minutes, even 90 minutes have not gotten me even 5 more miles.

I believe I do now know what happened there, because something very similar happened to myself recently:

After I recharged at the beach the battery indicator on the right was showing almost full, but the range indicator had not gone up.

I have had only a few partial "topup" or "opportunistic" charges so far and do not know how common this is; maybe the range indicator only gets reset once the battery is full or when the charger switches to "tr" after the initial "CP" cycle?

Here is the instrument panel at the end of my flat terrain test run:17km range left, 4/17th in the battery.

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Here is the instrument panel at the start of the recharging:
Voltage 126V, Battery Temperature 36degC.

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This is about 38min later: The battery is now 8/17th full, Voltage 138V.

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This is just before I unplugged the charger whilst it was still in "CP"-mode (and then I found a AU$300.- ticket on the throttle...):
15/17th in the battery, 143Volt, Battery temp 30degC.

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The multimeter shows that 3.2kWh went through it. (at a price of AU$93.75/kWh, steep!):

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Here is the shot at the start of my way home:
Battery has 15/17th, but the range indicator still shows 17km EST RANGE!!! Just like before charging. (Hard to see without magnification on this photo).

With the knowledge that my battery had some of the most expensive kWh's ever in it I took off despite the claim of the range indicator.

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The range indicator continued to count down to zero and then stayed at zero whilst I rode home with full power.

Here is where it hit zero estimated range after 13km of riding:

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10km later it was still at zero range and still going with full power....

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So, Eric, chances are that you did in fact have a lot of extra charge in your battery, but the Range Indicator = Random Number Generator was having its wicket way with you!

Has your charger been fixed, yet?

Mr. Mik

First, an update on my dead bike: quick summary - reported issue on 4/3 via phone and email, got a call back the next day (Friday) that they would develop a plan. Today, 4/7 Monday afternoon they have arranged to have a tech fly down and pick up my bike Friday 4/11 and work on it all weekend to have it back Monday 4/14. Their plan is to replace the whole charging system and take it back to tear it apart and figure out what the issue is.

They picked up the bike Friday 4/11, called with a VM on Monday 4/14 (I was traveling). When I talked with them Tuesday 4/15, they are shipping the bike back to New England (I live in Atlanta, GA) for a few weeks to fix the issue. The do not know what it is at this time, but due to the battery recall, they needed to take the bike back anyway. No date on expected return as of yet.

Second, when I did the recharges, I wasn't going by range indicator, the bike died, there in fact was no charge. I was on it trying to get as close to home as I could, and it would go into the crawl mode, hence my issue with no flashers. People think I am some stupid kid on a moped or something.

Once again I ask, If this is new technology with teething problems etc, why such a efty price? Is this aimed at people with loads of money to spend on something with no guarantees?
I think I've answered my own question.......

And, all that flying of technicians down to service the bikes is kind-of offsetting the carbon emission savings too.

There seems to be entirely too much gratuitous complexity built into the Vectrix. Electric motors and controllers, and battery management, and gauges to measure battery power usage aren't rocket science - all this has been done in a lot of e-bicycle hobbyists garages. There should be no "teething problems".

To Hermes and PJD.
In my career I had the opportunity to work for two motorbike manufacturers, one of which quite famed. One thing most important and foremost I have learned is, that one issue is to build one well working piece of equipment on two wheels and one completely different and by far more difficult is to produce a serie of comparable and all well working pieces. Another issue, often underestimated, is the dealer and customer support network. Despite its comparatively small dimension and with all the issues it has to properly follow its customers (see Mik and others for example), such network is a huge cost for Vectrix i daresay, so I do see that the price, while high, is supported by the goal to be worldwide present with an acceptable level of service.
Think at the issues you sometimes have with well established companies in the two wheel business... and Vectrix is a newborn one.
To put things straight, I'm in no relationship to Vectrix other, than being a customer of them and I had my share of issues too, which were so far satisfactory solved also because I'm living close to Rome, where there is one of the bigger stores and servicing points.
This is to say that, while I'd rather had a Vectrix for half the price too, I can't fail to see the ambition they have to become a serious worldwide player in the market. I did my math and it works for me to use the Vectrix instead of the car. My situation is a little peculiar maybe since I calculated the option "new car" vs. "stay with the old car for longer journeys AND using Vectrix as working horse" that way the price of a Vectrix against the price of a new car makes the option viable, but also if you decide that the range of a Vectrix is enough to choose it against another ICE scooter in the 250cc to 400cc range you'll discover that the mortaging time of the higer purchasing price is getting shorter and shorter due to rising fuel prices.
There surely are cheaper e-scooters around, but I don't know if their dealer would be able to fly around to try and solve customer issues.

Just my 2c.

Regards

Luigi

Ciao Luigi
The fact is that Vectrix has several thousands of their product unsold. I understand your point, but one must admit that when a product is very new and noone is too sure how it will fare in XX number of miles or years he/she is a bit reluctunt to spend a lot of money on it (unless he/she can afford the loss). Petrol scooters have been around for ages and like it or not, we have a better idea of what to expect, or so we think anyway.
Selling this new exciting scooter, I wouldnt say half the price, but say £5000 or Euro 8000 etc, one would see at least a no loss versus the tried and tested.
If they do go bust, and at this rate they might, forget about the 24 month warrenty + 2 for battery. Who's going to fix your product?
I really would want to believe that I'm going to buy a Vectrix and it's going to work fine for 10 years and it really will save me money.
At the moment I (and many others) simply cannot take that chance.

H

Scusa Luigi
One last thing. Having a big store/servicing point near my city would certainly make me more confident.
I live in London UK and to my knowledge the only shop that sells it is Harrods (you probaly heard of it), that has no engeneers etc. In fact they charge £170 for delivery on top (you can't just drive off with one).
not very reassuring.

Ciao
e saluti a Roma

After all I have read about the Vectrix, I would not buy one even at half the price.
I bought a ZAP Zapino, but it is really restricted to speed and range. But at least it was under $3000. So far there is not viable EV scooter/motorcycle on the market. I have been seriously considering the Piaggio MP3 250. At least it gets 60MPG. And I would not be restricted in range. Here in Colorado it would cost $8000 out the door.

Update 12 October 2008.
I have been impressed of late regarding positive reports about the Vectrix. Just wanted to negate my original post.

Hi Hermes,
I know nothing about the sales policy in the UK: for sure it doesn't seem the wisest move to sell through a non specialised dealer which can't guarantee an after market service of high quality. After all you are being asked for a lot of money when purchasing, and the service level you expect is high. It seems to me that it is developing into some story like the Smart car: where you have very good sales in certain areas and very little in others, at beginning and the real brekthrough only seems to come, if any, only now after years.
I don't know how sales are going, it seems here, and I want to underline *seems* that they are selling not bad, despite having to push hard (many scooter are first put on the street as customer test vehicles and then sold "second hand" to the final customer, in Italy it is the so called "0 km vehicle"). The price doesn't help, true, but there is no other highway compatible electric scooter on the market and you will concede that it is more likely to find in the comments on the net of people who have got problems with it seeking for solution by sharing their problems rather than from satisfied customers, and rightly so.
Well, I suppose the fact that the production is in the euro zone doesn't help keeping the price in dollars low... Is the Poland plant actually the only one around or is there one in the U.S.A. as well?
The Piaggio MP3 is no bad choice, but if you do the math over a period of several years it might make for a surprise. Sure, an ICE scooter can be seen as a complete substitute for a car (I have some collegues who gave up the car alltogheter) while the Vectrix can't due to range shortcomings.
I'll greet Rome for you, are you Italian btw?

Ciao

Hi Luigi
Here the Smart is going strong and is well looked after by technical support and a comparable small price.
I'm not a car driver so my "bivio" is petrol scooter V Electric scooter as far as price and convenience is concerned. And with UK living costs it's a priority.

As for your second question, sono Cagliaritano ma vivo qui dall' eta' di 16 anni (ora ne ho 38), quindi non so come definirmi, even though I'd say more British than Italian.

Your English is excellent, by the way.

S

The price doesn't help, true, but there is no other highway compatible electric scooter on the market and you will concede that it is more likely to find in the comments on the net of people who have got problems with it seeking for solution by sharing their problems rather than from satisfied customers, and rightly so.

The Piaggio MP3 is no bad choice, but if you do the math over a period of several years it might make for a surprise. Sure, an ICE scooter can be seen as a complete substitute for a car (I have some collegues who gave up the car alltogheter) while the Vectrix can't due to range shortcomings.

The Vectrix can be seen as a complete substitute for one car out of the several cars in a typical American or Australian garage; and there are plenty of people with money enough to not go bust if they end up with a collectors item that might be hard to service or repair. They just need to do the right thing and take a little risk and have a little fun, and then Vectrix will not go bust.

"...the change we wish to see in the world..."

One votes with ones dollars every day, and I have not spent a lot on petrol lately.

I really would want to believe that I'm going to buy a Vectrix and it's going to work fine for 10 years and it really will save me money.
At the moment I (and many others) simply cannot take that chance.

Not everyone has the capacity to take on the risk levels associated with getting onto a
Vectrix at this stage, but millions of people could.

I like to tell myself that I am at least trying to do something about the problems we create for the biosphere.

And I have now clocked up about 3600km on a Vectrix, on a continent with only one dealership, and 2000km away from them. Not without problems, of course, but the Vectrix is running and I now know most of its limitations so I can use it a lot without getting stranded.

At this stage I would still buy a Vectrix again, particularly because the price has come down a lot.

Mr. Mik

Hy Hermes, my *written* english, maybe, due to long internet practice, but I'd bet it will be hard for every native english speaker to endure my accent :o)

I can tell you that I paid 8.000€ for my Vectrix which was a dealer test ride, included in the pack I got some stuff like leg blanket handle cover and the back "trunk" from Givi. I invested The difference to the list price in the road insurance given by Vectrix itself, and mechanical assistance and recovery service pack (250€-year) they call here "plug and go" for the years to come until end of mortage period. So I gave out 10.000€ for a fully accessoired Vectrix inclusive insurance and service over a period of 5 years, 2.000€ year. Since November I covered 6.000km with no major problems (let's cross fingers!) at an energy cost of more or less 1€ for 100km (and I think I'm overestimating), say 60€ (in fact I recharge at work generously provided by my employer with no cost so actually it is about the half, but let's look at general scheme of things). I will do between 18.000 and 25.000km/year for 5 years (hopefully!). At actual diesel prices here in Italy of around 1,3 to 1,4€ litre and a consumption of 6ltr to 100km I have a cost of 8 point something € on 100km. So let's roughly say that I save 7€ per 100km on fuel costs and let's assume prices remain stable for the next 5 years (which we all know they won't) this makes say 1400€ saving/year (20.000km/year as average between 18.000 to 25.000 to stay conservative) total 7.000€. If I'm fortunate enough in a couple of years more the bike will pay itself. Now let's make a comparaison vs. a 250cc scooter at something around 3500€ plus 250€/year insurance (underestimating I guess) and 500€ service. A 250cc engine, i want to be good, can do 25km/ltr @ 1,4€ (actually more because gasoline is costier than diesel, but let's stay @1,4), thus 5,6€ on 100km = 1120€ year. so 3500+250*5+1120*5=10.350€, hey! The Vectrix is cheaper! ;o) Anyway my point is not to demonstrate that the Vectrix is *cheap*, I just want to point out that one should not allow the list price to scare one away from the idea of purchasing one, just do some further math before to decide.

Regards

Well Luigi
If I could get a similiar deal in UK I'd be happy to give it a go. I have done my calculations too based on a 5 years use of Vectrix versus my current scooter Vespa GT200 and it's too close, but as I said here it's £ 6930 + £ 167.50 delivery.
I shall wait for it to go down in price and better availabilty.....

VECTRIX at Harrods

Ciao

Well Luigi
If I could get a similiar deal in UK I'd be happy to give it a go.

Just in case it helps your decision making process and in case someone (anyone??) wondered why this Mr. Mik keeps on doing these test rides.....

Here is a little video of the start of the "Gold Coast Vectrix Test Route 1" maps.google.com/...
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It is the starting point for the 40km/h range test reported at http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2547-vectrix-reports, but this ride is not at 40.
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It is also part of my most recent "Regen Braking" test runs at http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3369-vectrix-real-world-regen-braking-testing
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Watching this might give you an idea why the Vectrix is a bit different from the competition....

If you like riding motor bikes, then a Vectrix or a DIY project are currently the only choices to go electric!

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In case the previous video has not bored you to death, here is one I recorded before I knew that one piece of Velcro and two tennis-wrist-sweatband-kind-of-things need to be wrapped around the mic of my camera to make the sound halfway bearable. So the sound in this one is even worse.
It was recorded on the same road, but in the other direction, and sticking to the speed limit of 80km/h for the purpose of figuring out if regen braking really helps. Do not watch it if the last video annoyed you, it will only get worse...

If my Vectrix really does not keep on going strong, and I hope it will keep going, then I think I'll buy another bike with some grunt and then try to electrify it (see Andrews posts for details of the idea).

Only a dog knows the feeling (the kind that sticks its head out of the window of the car...)

You like???

Mr. Mik

Hi Mik
I read and watched many of your efforts and I'm (and others I'm sure) very greatful.

So perhaps you can give me an estimate range for me.
I'm 5'7 (170cm) and weigh 60kgs.
The distance from home to work is 22kms each way. The route is not on flat terrain but it contains only a hill. The weather in UK ... you probably heard of it. Mostly wet and very windy.
At present I am not able to charge at work so I'd need round trips battery efficiency.
Any clues?

Well I got my new Vectrix last Thursday and it's going well.

It will be used for my daily commute to work, a round trip of about 35 miles.

The batteries were partly conditioned when the bike arrived, so the initial range for the first few charges were in the region of 30 miles. Now the batteries have been cycled a few times and I've changed my route to work to a slower paced one, the range is up about the 45 mile range. Time will tell when the range levels off as every charge gets me a greater range just now.

Coming from a 600cc ICE bike, the vectrix is a bit slower in top speed but as most of my time I'm only travelling about 25-40mph the vectrix is just as quick, the handling at slower speeds is really good.

With the last charge I worked out it cost me 49p for my 35 miles, produced about 70g of CO2 (if brown energy) making the electricity and is an estimated 341mpg if it were an ICE machine. Every trip to work is saving me £2.40 on fuel and it's going up daily.

I've been gps data logging my route to work and had interesting results
Speed seems to have the greatest drain on the battery
Hills are next, if you do hills at speed that really does the batteries in

Keeping the acceleration rates to just quick enough and using the regen braking all add up to extending the range, well it does for me

I'm enjoying the lower noise and feel I'm helping a little to the pollution problem

Peter
Central Scotland

Hello Py
Can I ask you where you bought it and what price it was? I don't mean to be rude, as you're also in UK I'm just checking if there are price variations etc.
Was it delivered to you at no cost ??? Should anything go wrong, do you need to call Vectrix, are there specialized garages? Do they come to you etc?

Hi Hermes,

I bought the bike direct from Vectrix UK in Southampton, I got it a bit cheaper than the list price but after adding delivery, licensing, center stand and top box bracket I was nearly back at the list price. Vectrix will be my first call if things go wrong, but there should be a dealer in my local area soon.

Today I've got really bad opposing winds and reached my workplace by pure chance, 45km with the last 10 in "buSult" mode, but hey, the winds were really really bad! :).
Well, adrenaline in the morning is good for waking up ;).
Depending on how steep your hill is, Hermes, you might well be inside the possibilities of the Vectrix for commuting to work. Best thing you could do is asking Vectrix (the dealer, not Harrods: it seems there is one after all according to pyjohnson) to have one on test for a couple of days to check if it makes the road to work. That's how I bought mine and the dealer in rome was more than willing to let me testride for a week to check if I really could do it to work.

You already are almost on the bright side of the force!

Good luck :P

Still siding with Darth Vader for now. LOL
So am I to understand that the average urban range for it is 50km with a full battery at speeds 25-45 miles ph?

Well, let's say I'm always confident of being able to travel beyond 50km after which tere are Hercule's Columns. Strong winds can affect performance both ways even by more than 5km (you can somewhat compensate by reducing speed, if traffic conditions allow for it): today my confidence almost proved to be overconfidence for this very reason, but eventually, I managed to make for the safe harbour.
In urban conditions without competing to death with other two wheelers, but rather looking down with haugtiness to those who feel the need to burn wheels at traffic lights in order to satisfy their poor ego, you might be rewarded with ranges per excess of 50km.
The Vectrix dealer told me that the recordman under Vectrix users was able to drive from near Latina to the Store for 84km, snails defiantly looking up to him from the roadside ;).

Come on, join us! Every trip will be a journey! LOL!

Hi Hermes,

quite contrary to the general tone in this forum I am highly satisfied with my Vectrix bike, the Vectrix Corp professionalism, and the dedication and service quality of the VECTRIX EUROPE s.r.l. c/o VECTRIX BOLOGNA dealer.
I have up till now driven over 4300 km in all kind of good and adverse weather, cold, rain, sleet, without any major trouble. Yes, sporadically the estimated range indicator and/or the battery state-of-charge-indicator erred - presume this will be corrected with the software update. Also, in one instance, the bike didn't charge right away but did so the next day. Apart from these very minor nuisances, the scooter has performed superbly. The only maintenance I did was cleaning and tire pressure checking. There is of course no chain to grease of re-tension.
This scooter perfectly fullfills my daily commuting needs. It is of course a very quick and fast means of city transportation. I can totally avoid the usual hassle with parking space or fees, not to mention that I escaped Austrian "sin tax" on registration and pay less than € 5,-/month for insurance and vehicle tax. As I obtain electricity from 100% hydro, there's no CO2 emission, no particle emission involved, and I pay less than € 0,01/km for "fuel". Gas prices on the other hand have doubled over the past two years. Much more than that I entertain the thought of withholding my money from near eastern oil sheiks' luxurious follies.
I'm no motorbike fan and have to admit prefer automatic cars over hand shifting. For me clearly the Vectrix' gear-less, clutch-less, backlash-free, smooth acceleration and ease of handling are very convenient, not to mention seamless transition between acceleration and regenerative braking on the right handle.
Last week I received a note from Vectrix Corp about a possible battery problem. Within two days I was able to get a free battery replacement, on a Saturday no less, at my Bologna dealer, along with a vast number of other free-of-charge service tasks and a free spare part, topped-off by an invitation to join the family at lunch for original Italian pizza.
To sum up I want no part in biased Vectrix bashing, a company whom I regard as highly dedicated professionals who have in my opinion created an outstanding state-of-the-art product. I cannot understand the satisfaction expressed in one post of having scared off another Vectrix customer. I just hope for substantial economical success in their future which they certainly more than deserve.

Best regards
Wolfgang

Hello Wolfang
Thanks for your thoughts.
If you do not work for Vectrix, you should.

I'll give it another 6 months then decide.

H

I don't see anyone in the forums as bashing Vectrix - I am one prospective buyer who is a) anxious to get off my E-MAX and take part in a deeper phase of the energetic revolution of this planet and b) disappointed at the gross malfunctions some of the veterans of this forum have to go through with the V.
Some of my clients in retail would not hesitate to (without displaying any kind of "tinker-willingness" as for example Mik and some of the other "product-specialists-by-necessity" are) rather steadfastly ask their money back - and rightfully so.

Vectrix goal was laudable and remains so, but the condition in which the product arrived on the market, sadly, appears unfit for competition and unfit for safety on the road (=throttle/cutouts, more than 600 bikes recalled, potential of fire via the battery box---and all this with their first - and ONLY -product!!!!!)

This being said, my feeling is that right now they're desperately trying to sell the first run, possibly trying to maintain some remnant of customer confidence, but with these sales and this track record "she no look so good" - sadly!

I really hope they got enough bucks to survive this hurricane-level headwind!!

Well Groove, do we want to talk about recall actions customary to major car and motorbike manufacturers established on the market since nearly or over 100 years? First coming to mind: a famous German car manufacturer some years ago had to recalled ALL cars of a certain model because of faulty earthing of the tank inlet causing sometimes sparks between inlet and gas "pistol" setting the car in fire... But there are a lot of other examples both in the 4 and the 2 wheel sector.
So, after all, and having enjoyed for a couple of years a privileged insight wiew in the two wheel's sector, as customer I can take the problems Vectrix is having now.
My bike was recalled too because of the battery issue: I declined their offer for a substitution bike for the two days needed, because we could arrange it in a way I had no need for it, but i was offered one! For comparaison a collegue of mine who had a total engine breakdown with a big scooter of a well known japanese manufacturer cleary imputable to faulty material had a downtime of over a month: do you think he got a substitution bike offered? He asked for and was denied: he had to hire a car for the time inbetween, the scooter being his only mean of transportation. He is now talking through lawyers with the dealer and the outcome *might* be that he gets some of the shop and material expenses back (they neither recognized warranty on the toasted motor). The treatment received by Vectrix so far is of the higest level possible also considering the sleek structure they have. So far the bike never left me on the side strip and stood up to my expectations for 6.500km by now, so I must say that they have retained and even build up my confidence as a customer. The bike doesn't sell by itself and the list price doesn't help, that's true, if you look beyond the purchasing price you see that you can get your payback in a reasonable time span.

Regards

Hey duca,

why do you bring the german manufacturers up? Their track record is only beaten by the Japanese....let's talk about FIAT shall we??

In germany my friends call F.I.A.T. = "Fehler In Allen Teilen" which translates to: "Mistakes In All Parts ;-)

No I'm just kidding ;-) I'm glad you like your Vectrix, I testdrove it and liked the handling very very much - I'm just totally unaccepting of stuck throttles, engine cutting out while accelerating, because this can put you on the ground in no time.

Were the Vectrix half of its price - well, maybe I would consider helping the technology out within my means....but for the TOP TICKET in the whole market???

Anyways, I will check back with them in a year (if they still exist at that point...) to see about the next generation of Vectrix', hopefully with a LiFePo4 pack or similar.

And BMW is "Bring Mich Werkstatt" (take-me-shop);)

I don't drive a FIAT and I don't think they will have my soul in the next future, but I must admit that they have redeemed themselves some in the last times.

I brought German manufacturers up only to say that even the best of the best can do something wrong and let models with major faults leak through to the end customer.

For the top ticket of the whole market I expect a high service level and customer dedication, on tis respect I'm not disappointed so far: reliability of the product is up to my standards until now. As a technical platform susceptible of further expansions and developments the Vectrix is, I daresay, well above average of actual E-scooter you can find on the market, the finish is comparable to that of famed maxiscooters of european or japaneese manufacture and it is the only E-scooter capable of sustain highway use: this has its price which hurts of course, and I hope I didn't my math wrong, but until now it seems not.
About cutting out while accelerating: never experienced the feeling of the throttle whire going broken while driving a normal motorbike? It happens sometimes and every decent biker knows it can happen (at least those who still remember the times of big carburettors...). If one customer has a sticking throttle it doesn't mean all have. I had problems with my throttle too, it was somewhat "rubbing" but hadn't I drove another Vectrix I hadn't known the difference and had token it for an unpleasant characteristic of the Vectrix (and had repeated to myself I wish I had a smoother throttle...).

Whilst I decide....
A few more questions.
Will the Lithium battery increase the range and by how much ( estimate of course)?
Will the speed capping be removed?
Will the Vectrix have the new batteries as standard from next year? What if the Ni batteries dies within 24 months, will it be replace by a same type or new one?
So many of you had software upgrades to fix bugs. Do new bike have those upgrades as standards or must one wait for bug?

I guess I should be asking Vectrix all this, but if you guys know do tell.

Thanks

I researched the affair of LiFePo4 a bit (I'm considering to convert an old diesel car to EV, but the beurocracy here in Italy is something almost impossible...): Let say that the actual pack weighs over 90kg. The same range could be obtained with 35kg of LifePo4 batteries. So with the same weight of LifePo4 you could more than double the range. At which cost I don't know though.

Regards