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solarcharger, I always to use Ride-On motorcycle slime in my tires, especially if I am going to go much faster than 22 mph or ride in traffic. It works great, and has saved me in traffic and from having to push my bike home many times.
Lots of interesting info coming in here for our XB600s. Keep it coming guys cause we'll all learn what works and what doesn't! I especially think one of you?? might be on to one important aspect of the mods...adding the relay. I know there's been caution about burning out the dc-dc converter and that sounds like a great way to prevent that problem from occuring.
Anyway, just want to say that I really appreciate the info that you all are submitting here. Maybe the forum admin should transfer all of the xb600 stuff into it's own category as some of the other scoots are listed on the forums list.
I love my xb600...but am quite interested in the upcoming 700li! Love to have that lighter weight and long lasting lithium batteries!
I don't have a crystalyte controller. I have a 72v ecrazyman [at] gmail.com controller. I posted that somewhere on here. I'm not sure why, but my motor didn't like that setup very much.
Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.
For the record. The stock controller has 62v Fet's , once done charging I turn the lights on for a few seconds to get the surface charge off the 48v pack, then I connect my 5th battery. It takes only seconds to do this and so far my dc-dc convertor is living just fine. As for the 72v controller from ecrazyman... It will run at 60v if you put a resistor across the board to make the low voltage cut off lower. Here is a link on how to do this... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4282&p=63528#p63528 . Of course, you could just order a 60v controller from ecrazyman [at] gmail.com
I have the liberty town and country 643 and it is very similiar to teh xb-600. If I add a 60v contraller and buy a 60v charger from the xm-2000 can you charge all 5 batteries at once without removing them? Will the plug for the 60v charger fit in the plug on my bike?
Yes you can charge all 5 batteries with a 60v charger. This might be a little off topic, but I got caught in a thunderstorm today on my way home from work. Invest in some Michelin Boppers!!!!! I tried to stop at a stop sign and my back wheel locked up because of the wet roads and I wasn't even going fast. These stock tires SUCK!!!
It really bugged me that my 500 watts Expresso S could climb much better than my new XB-600.Done the Zerogas's (0hmm...) shun & mod gretly improves .However the gray wires that restrict current in half were used by myself in the past in case of running low on batteries which would allow me to limp home at low speeds. Now with a push spring loaded (OFF) switch it makes easy to be light handed on throttle (even if all the way open). Pushing the button would give the needed burst to gain momentum . It is like a newly discovered turbo mode . Clarification do not use a regular push button but one that opens circuitry on action . Hope this helps modification to save juice stress out of wrist and control on legal speed .
Ok...now we're back to the gray wires. When this subject came up recently I realized I might have connected those wires on my XB600...when I first got it. However, when this came up recently about that restricting speed, etc. I went in under the gauge cluster and checked and I could tell, using a bike computer that I have installed which is very accurate...no difference with those wires connected or disconnected as I reported here...and my speed, etc. has always been the reported "normal" 20-21mph on the flats...maybe 14-16 on a hill. Are you saying that those two gray wires...actually a single loop of a gray wire with a plug to continue the circuit loop...wire tied to the left handlebar under the gauge cluster...is something that limits the speed on your XB600 if it is plugged together. Again, to be sure, is this the small gray wires that come out of a small bundle that is covered with a piece of rubber wire tied on each side to hold the covering over the bundle...and when the two gray wires are plugged, runs this loop right back into that bundle under the rubber wrapped bundle? I really want to find this out because like I said it makes no difference on my XB600 whether these are plugged or unplugged...to anything. I have no idea what this wiring is for. Can some other XB600 owner check theirs if this is the case and tell us if it makes any difference. Would they have made this active on some XB600s and not on others?
This continues to puzzle me now that someone else seems to be saying it has an effect on their xb600. Thanks in advance for your reply regarding this.
You must Check for continuity on those gray wires . tech support reassured me on the function.Because my previous bike had them coming out the controller that was one of my questions to X-treme tech . In any case , that seems to be standard for controllers and without modifications plugging them together would cut speed to about 10 mph and prevent controller from acting (shutting off) when too low on batts. The function is there to enjoy . You accurately describe where they go throughout. Hope this helps and forwards your endeavors .Applications has plenty.
Thanks for the info. Course I still, untill someone actually tests like I did on my XB600, have to wonder. I guess I could just unplug them and not worry one way or the other whether they work that way or not. They obviously don't do anything else! At least when I was checking them plugged and unplugged I checked lights, horn, gauges, etc. and everything worked whether they were plugged or unplugged.
But I just seem to remember when I first got my XB600 and was running a wire for the bike computer, I removed the gauge cluster panel and recall that I saw two plugs that obviously went together and my thinking was "they left something unplugged in error...and I need to plug it together...and if they didn't and it should be unplugged something will probably happen to indicate it shouldn't be plugged!" It didn't so I left it plugged. I seem to remember that.
I'm still hoping someone will actually "test" theirs like I did, plugged and unplugged, to see if there is any difference in speed. Heck you really don't even have to take the cover off to get to the plug...you can reach it up through the open end of the gauge housing on the handlebar and pull enough of the slack out to let it just hand out...even with it wiretied to the handlebar. That's what realized when I was doing the testing. I'm thinking maybe on your other scoot (different "brand") there was something that did make a difference since you mentioned gray wires coming out of the controller and that you didn't have that on the 600. But then those gray wires go into that bundle where nothing gray goes out anyway! Who knows? But it would be much appreciated if someone would actually test theirs also so we would know absolutely!
Didn't understand what you meant by it's "there to enjoy"????? Or the last words about "applications." Perhaps you are from a different country than the USA and you're trying to state something else???
Gushar: My Xb-600 is daily ridden around Miami ,Florida.You got me English is like my forth language .The Function " is there to enjoy " (it means restricting current to the hub to half its potential). The "APPLICATIONS" are several: for example (1)if you are running low on power the controller shut-off itself when you give full throttle --restricting current in half would allow you to keep going [even thou at lower speed without the inconvenience ]hassle--(2)Some one is pestering you to try for a ride but you are affright he or she is going to crack la sua testa. (3)You want to detach youself on how much pressure is applied to the throttle. (4)Saving batteries .(5)Trying the Shun trick without concern of blowing the motor , etc , etc.
This is an assurance that the gray wires work on the XB-600. Hope this dispels doubts.Grammatically it is possible for me to write without using first person singular although "language is a poor vehicle to express ideas , emotions , thoughts or feelings "....
Enjoy limiting power??? Are you serious???? LOL
Cruise control does it. Is it not? Rest heel of hand on throttle ridding around South beach .Who needs 60v & amperage . Pace Pacer.
Mopedbrainey...well, I understand some of what you are saying. What I am asking is "DID YOU ACTUALLY TRY THE XB600 BOTH WITH THE WIRES PLUGGED AND UNPLUGGED? DID IT CUT YOUR SPEED IN HALF?" If the answer to that is "YES" then that means one of two things. Either there is some technical/fault reason that mine doesn't work that way or some of the XB600s are that way and some aren't...like they did the actual disconnecting someplace else in the circuit on some of them? Of course one would wonder if the latter is the case why they would have also (as I seem to recall on mine) left the plugs undone???
I guess my only concern would be this. If HAVING THEM UNPLUGGED makes it such that the controller cuts speed alot if the batteries get to low...that would be something I might like to have active. Otherwise, my having them connected doesn't appear to affect anything at all on my particular XB600. I know there is contact between the two gray wires as I have them plugged together. There is a single male side pin and a single female side contact. Those are both in contact with the wires plugged together. And as I've described several times that makes a loop of the single gray wire out of and back into the rubber covered bundle. I don't know what's inside the bundle and really hesitant to cut the wire ties to find out.
I guess I could simply unplug them since it doesn't seem to affect anything. However, since I've had the XB600 for almost a year and had no problem...I just hesitate to do this unless I really know that it has a positive result somehow...or that leaving them plugged will at some point cause me a problem.
I appreciate your providing information about this! I wasn't trying to be critical of your English! I just wasn't sure what you were stating. And hey, I'm a Floridian as well...just on the other end of the state!
Oh, and another couple of questions...
In your other post are you saying that you did the mods that have been shown here. And, that you have installed a pushbutton so that you only get the higher speed from the modifications (shunt/60v) when you push in the switch? If so, is that because when you activate the push button you are connecting the gray wires?...and when it's not pushed they are disconnected so there is no speed limiting?
Also, why would the manufacturer want a circuit to create a 10mph top speed. Would it even be practical for any application of this size scooter/bike? Or, would they have needed what was otherwise in the bundle where this gray wire loops into and so used it in this scoot...but didn't want the speed limiting designed into this same "part/wiring...whatever is under that rubber covering?" so the answer was to just leave the gray wires unplugged?
What does Zerogas and Milleny think about this. Would like to know what you guys have to say about this if you don't mine commenting...since you've both been into some of the wiring with the mods.
Gushar ; You could use a toggle switch .The inconvenience is obvious . The circuitry must be kept close (connected at all times) so the push button must open ( disconnect) when acted upon (push in).Those are not sold every where. Either a pc (computer reset switch ) or a cars' automatic transmission stick's .If you add an easy to plug -unplug connector ,it could be used if getting fedup with the tinkering .In regards to manufacturers' intention !!! it is made in china and the controller is just a component not custom made but modified for the XB-600.Or so it is my humble belief .After the mod's it is like my turbo mode . Before it wasn't used much but as an emergency return home "slow mo". There is also this failed attempt to use my CYBER Power UPS backup system to charge the extra battery and protect my system when charging anywhere else but my multimeter shows only 10.8 voltage charge .?has any one tried that?
Mopedbrainy is trying to say he has a switch hooked to his gray wires so when he is low on voltage he can push the button to go into limited power mode to make sure he gets home. :( Personally, I'd rather run out of juice and push my xb600 home than be forced to ride at 10mph. I just don't see how this mod is economical or worthwhile. Hey, that's just me.... I'm trying to make them go faster for crying out loud! LOL
I hear what you are saying, zerogas. But optional features are not meant to be for everybody.
I kinda like the idea of a DPDT switch that can both turn off the lower resistance in the current shunt AND switch the controller into go-far mode. I'd use it for two purposes. One is for when I let someone ride the ebike who I don't trust would be safe at high speeds. And the second is in case I get pulled over by a cop who insists that he verify that the bike can only go 20 mph on level ground. Even if I never get stopped, it gives me peace of mind.
Yeah I understand now. I'm just still trying to find someone else who has tested the gray wires connected and unconnected. I get no change either way...mine continues to get full power and connecting them doesn't change anything. Or, is it just when the batteries are very low that this has an effect? Maybe that's why I've not seen any change although the one time I ran almost 29 miles and the batteries were getting very low...nothing seemed to change and those wires were connected. I'd just like to confirm at least one other xb600 that does have an effect when they're plugged.
If the top of the block is shaved off some -to gain more compression on engine-, blowing a gasket or cracking a piston would "run with the fun" but having to push it otherwise could depress a good Samaritan offering a buck to help getting home.Hopelessness could be avoided even if to sync with Broadcast "...we're experiencing technical difficulties ..." At least for the insightful and smart image of the the GREEN WAYS .Even a 20 minute recharge from my UPS backup Cyber Power is welcomed . Still Zerogas described it wrong .With modification done and the Gray wires connected at all times , bike runs around 14mph full throttle .Pushing in the button (disconnecting gray wires )that in fact in my Qelectric is installed on the floor - foot rest - foot activated , would give burst of power when desired otherwise is like "free wheeling ".If going downhill(decent hill) without motor on would be faster than going full throttle ????? paradox !!! To accurately assert how much current is going to the motor is beyond my means for lack specific values and instruments . Besides, even though the Federal law on "low speed electric bicycles" supersedes any state law "...more stringent than..." the conditions should be met otherwise the bikes would become mopeds and should be tagged and licensed .Still a moped would not have to toll pay the Venetian or Julia Turtle causeways!!!
Uff!!! the site sometimes becomes unreachable . The other day neither LINUX or UNIX could get me in but !!!Yeah Bocabikeguy got the notion. OH Gushar : no not concerned about English communication skills . When most of us were pecking on Windows 3.1 my job was downloading destination signs (on subcontracting) for a few counties in Florida including Sarasota .Are you close there or Madeira Beach? My quest still remains ? Has anyone had good experience with a light backup system to protect bike components when charging and used as an additional charger for the extra battery . Any input would be very much appreciated .
Mopedbrainy, the federal law only supercedes state law as far as your ability to sue the manufacturer - it puts product safety in the hands of the CPSC. There is no US federal law that tells states what vehicles can be used on the roads or what drivers' licenses or tags are required if they DO allow the vehicles on the road.
In many states, like Florida, it is extremely difficult to get tags for an electric bike - so you definitely don't want to go the "moped" route if you can avoid it. Besides, the XB-600 would not qualify as a moped because under Florida law a moped must not have any sort of electric start, which is interpreted to mean that a moped must not have a battery.
I am wondering if the "go-far" wires either only work if the controller does not have the lowered resistance in the current shunt, or - like some electric moped controllers - need to be connected to a speed reed switch on the wheel to limit the actual speed and not controller current.
An ongoing 42 USC 1981-83 Bivens lawsuit derived from my arrest and 40 days impound of my bike (petition for Writ of Mandamus filed) since next day release of bike was denied upon requirement of Court Order. The foregoing was quoted from FEDERAL ELECTRIC BICYCLE LAW HR 727....THE CONSUMER product Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 2051 et seq) sec.38.(a).....or [16 CFR 1512] Public Law107-319, section1,116 Stat.2776 or even easily at 15 U.S.C. 2085 . Florida Statutes still no include moped as motor vehicle though a JUDICIAL decision on State Court of Appeals a few years back then requires mopeds to be licensed . IF the research is done the meaning of the quoted words in phrases SUPERSEDE & STRINGENT would clear up. AS long as the following conditions are met we are "free birds" . The point is not moot by any means but the federal says what is a bicycle and as long as the EV complies IT IS and good golly the XB-700li is under 1 h.p. 750 watts !!!!
mopedbrainy, your bike was impounded and you are arguing that we don't have a problem with the law? Florida does have a definition of Moped (http://www.flhsmv.gov/Intranet/DMV/Bulletins/Scooter_fact.htm) but that is beside the point since they don't consider anything with a battery to be a moped (cannot have an "electric start").
Also, your Writ of Mondamus will likely be ignored or denied since the Consumer Products Safety Act cannot tell the State of Florida what vehicles can be allowed on the roads.
However, your XB-700i should be released as long as it does not go faster than 20 mph and you had the pedals installed. In Florida it is classified as an e-Bike no matter what the watts/horsepower.
Ever since Christ became governor, Florida has been cracking down on electric vehicles with a vengeance. Just like in your case, they are getting impounded whether they are legal or not, and in some cases the operators are being put in jail. We thought Bush was bad as governor, but it was never like this.
Bocabikeguy what the Federal LAW says is that no STATE can regulate the use of LOW SPEED ELECTRIC BICYCLES imposing restrictions more STRINGENT than the Federal LAW. Meaning that the use of a bicycle is - USING - "COMMON LAW" terminology unregulated as long as the vehicle complies with the definition of BICYCLE. It is true that F.S.-FLORIDA STATUTES-sec.316.003(2) does not include "less than one horse power (750 watts )' but the argument was forced on me and the contention in Federal Courts is that State's failure to instruct its officers and employees of the LAW OF the LAND continues to create misunderstanding and grievances .The event occurred almost year and a half ago and a COURT ORDER stating that the bike does not qualify as a motor vehicle for purposes of Tag and License was obtained by the undersigned .
Bocabikeguy what the Federal LAW says is that no STATE can regulate the use of LOW SPEED ELECTRIC BICYCLES imposing restrictions more STRINGENT than the Federal LAW.
That is a common misreading of the law. What the law says is that FOR THE PURPOSES OF CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY no state can impose more stringent restrictions. This law was written to protect the MANUFACTURERS of electric bicycles from being sued by their customers. Manufacturers presumably need to know that they can build electric bicycles and sell them in every state in the US without having to worry that some states will have more stringent safety requirements and/or require additional safety equipment. As long as a manufacturer builds electric bicycles to the FEDERAL guidelines they cannot be sued in state court when someone gets hurt because of a more restrictive state law.
This law has absolutely no impact on whether or not you can ride an electric bicycle on the street.
The Law's title totally indicates the was written to protect the CONSUMER .See 15 U.S.C.2085 . Now the term CONSUMER PRODUCT as defined on 15 U.S.C. sec. 2052 do not include motor vehicles ( because they are regulated by 49 U.S.C. sec. 30102(a)(6&7)neither boats ( regulated by46 U.S.C. chapter 43 sec. 2101(1), etc.) nor aircraft-Not even meats ,chicken eggs , tobacco is not defined as a consumer product ...neither are drugs nor cosmetics !!!! To make it simple : Highways and Motor Vehicles do not regulate LOW SPEED ELECTRIC BICYCLES . Shepard's Citations or any Digest would help " clarifying counselor" X-treme links the concerning FED. LAW at the end of Product Specs ?????To tell us we cannot sue them !!!!It does not make sense.
You are arguing that laws need to make sense? We now have four judges on the Supreme Court interpreting the constitution who don't believe in the constitution. And a president whose primary job is to uphold the constitution who ignores and violates the constitution.
NO law written in the last eight years that governs the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) was written to protect the CONSUMER. Every one of those laws were written to protect corporations from being sued by consumers. Why do you think we are now importing tainted food that kills adults and cheap toys with lead in them that makes our children stupid? The CPSC is horribly broken. It has been run for the last eight years by people who don't believe it should even exist.
Yes, we can buy electric bicycles that we cannot legally use on the street, and we cannot sue the manufacturer over it. Be grateful there were people like me in Florida who lobbied for years and gave donations to lawmakers to get the Florida electric bicycle law passed, in spite of a massive campaign against it and a governor who would have vetoed it if he could. You could be in New York where it is illegal to ride ebikes on the street, where the ebike law passes the NY State Assembly UNANIMOUSLY every year only to get killed in committee in the Senate.
Your ebike was illegally impounded and you argue that laws need to make sense?
Bocabikeguy, your point of view has its merits .Theorem of relativity indicates that disparaging opinions (due different points of view or conscious levels )do not have to undermine the other and -in tolerance- could be reconciled .Conceptualizing words is key to communicate . Admitting my ignorance of NY issues ,my trust is placed that the US Constitution is still the LAW OF THE LAND .For example POLICY is not law but a set of rules and regulations an institution . agency or dept. uses to operate .Therefore my concern is that the "common word of mouth " notion , that all that has a motor must be licensed and tagged , widely use by LEOs must be addressed .Unfortunately semantics and law are very much entwined .Using a moped should not be deemed UNLAWFUL since Florida STATUTES set it aside from motor vehicles and the charge "should not stick in Court , except that by the same JUDICIARY it was made ILLEGAL on appeal few years back.Ok , lets not dread an EXECUTIVE ORDER by the Governor !@##$ .On the other hand , by the grace of my signed Court Order a NO PROBABLE CAUSE would be easily proven following a traffic stop..... C'est la vie.
mopedbrainy, Probable Cause has not been an issue with police since the Patriot Act took effect. I hope you are able to win a Probable Cause case - it would help restore all of our constitutional rights.
I spent 11 days in the Palm Beach County jail last January, without being charged with any crime and without a hearing. Since there was no hearing, there was no opportunity to speak with a Public Defender. Had I not had the money ($3,000) to hire an attorney to go to Federal Court in Miami to file a Habeus Corpus case, I would probably still be rotting in jail. I got pulled over riding a <20 mph legal e-bike, using a helmet, and carefully following all traffic laws. In my case, the police knew my e-bike was legal - they pushed my bike across the street to the BocaBike office before they hauled me to jail. There were no charges, they knew I had done nothing wrong - they must have been looking for me because I am an electric vehicle proponent. My only crime was promoting the legal use of electric bicycles. Since I am a US citizen, they must legally bring charges within 72 hours of placing me in custody - but even after 11 days there was no arraignment. That was how I was able to get a Federal judge to order them to release me more than a week later. If I wasn't a US citizen, I might have been sent to Guantanamo.
The bottom line is that e-cyclists are getting thrown in jail and legal e-bikes are getting confiscated, at least here in Florida. I see this as a desperate act of a government that knows it can no longer keep electric vehicles off the road, and they are trying to hang on to those Oil Company profits just a little bit longer.
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