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I believe the guy in Winkler is out of the scooter biz but I will definitely try Fun-Time.
We're about ready to start the mods too! We haven't done the shunt mod yet...maybe this weekend. I hope all goes smooth....I'm checking with Arcticfox for prices on the charger and battery.
I remember reading somewhere after you do the mods, not to open the throttle all the way or you blow a fuse replaceable with one from Radio Shack. Is that correct?
There seems to be several postings on the shunt mod...is there one that works better than the other? Also the same seems to be true about adding the battery, which one works best?
Ok, my 60 volt charger and 20 Amp battery came in today. I have already wired it in, and at least the initial test appear to be fine.
I did what I think is a neat trick with the wiring. I found an old AC line cord (yes I know the amp rating may be too low), and cut it up. I also found an AC socket from an old AC adapter I had laying around, and wired it all together in such a way that I just plugged it into the bike and connected the new battery, without having to make any modifications to the existing wiring. Pretty neat huh? I will be happy to make up a schematic (although it is very simple) if anyone want one.
Now the caveat is that since the AC line cord is constructed with 18 gage wire, it will should be kept as short as reasonable, and in any case, there will be some extra voltage drop across it. I don't think it will melt though.
1. 5 fully charged 12 volt batteries measure about 72 volts.
2. The charger I bought has a label that says it puts out 73 volts.
3. It also says that you should not plug the charger into the AC line unless it is connected to the batteries.
4. Darn, that's inconvenient, I liked being able to just unplug the charger from the bike and throw the cord aside.
More extensive road test tomorrow,
Well, I'm too late for the XM-2000 charger...Arcticfox informed me that X-treme is out of stock indefinitely. Anyone have any idea's where to get a charger if I add the extra battery? I don't really want to use two chargers.
Duplicate removed by author
I found a 60 volt charger here:
It is rated somewhat lower at 1.8 Amps, but it should work, it would just charge a little slower than the 2.5 Amp charger. It appears to be designed for a 5 battery, 18 Amp system.
Price is $60, which is less than the charger I bought from Xtreme at $100, though it is rated at 3.5 Amps.
By the way, here is a link to the 3 prong male connector, if anyone wants to try to make a "no modification" adapter for 60 volts.
So, would this charge fully overnight?
You can also check on ebay. I bought a 60Volt 20AH charger on there for about $45. It looks like the one Tom linked to but its black and has the same connector as the XB has. The XM charger is better but this one does the trick. I had a problem with it but the seller sent me a new PCB for it and its worked fine ever since.
It will charge the batteries overnight without a problem.
Laurie: As for the shunt mod my suggestion is to use a 1.25" length of standard coat hanger. I just did another controller for someone and found that 1.5" doesn't give as much torque on take off. Just make sure the welds are good and solid and you should be okay. Also make sure that you put some new thermal grease on the mosfets when you take the controller apart. This will help prevent burnout.
As for the battery, it seems like there are a few ways to go. I went with the way MilleyM described it in his response to Zerogas. I found this way to be a little simpler and you don't have to crack open the battery case. Either way you go it should work. It looks like Tom figured out another way to do it so I guess there are a lot of different ways to do it.
I was lucky when wiring mine up. The bike I bought in Canada doesn't have the 30 amp fuse everyone has issues with. I have a 30 amp circuit breaker mounted under the seat. So I just wired in series straight into this. I have only had the breaker go once and it was before I went to 60v.
I ordered the 1.8amp charger. It will do for now.
First, Thank You to all of you that have posted to this thread. I have finaly done the 60v mod. I have taken some of the best ideas and wrapped them up to make my mod work for me. I used the 3 prong connectors (thx Tom)to hook the new battery into the wire harness with out having to cut or splice any original wires. I also installed a double pole double throw switch so that I can switch between 48 and 60 volts which allows me to charge the orig. pack when 60v is not available. Plus it isolates the 5th battery so I can use a car charger to charge it and not have to disconnect anything.
My first test ride was about 2 miles and top speed was 27.6Mph (GPS) so yes a 5 Mph improvement.
I still have to do a distance ride to see how well it does.
Will keep you posted.
Hi. My husband has a question. He wants to know if you mean you plugged the 3-prong into the charger port?
Doesn't this just add the new battery in parallel and leave the voltage the same but increase the amperage?
Here is the wire diagram for the mod the way I did it. You will need a plug, a socket and a single pole double throw switch. I used a switch from my junk box that was rated at 15 amps. if you can find one with a higher amperage I would. Use an OHM meter to verify the common post on the switch so that you dont short the new battery.
Hope this helps
Great drawings James, I couldn't have drawn up a schematic any better.
As I said in my previous post, I finished making the adapter last night and plugging it in. Today I drove it to work and back twice, for about 5 miles total. It now runs GREAT! Top speed on the flat is a bit below 30 mph, by the speedometer, and it now pulls my minor hills at about 25 mph. I am also glad and pleased with the purchase of the 60 volt charger. I brings the batteries up faster than the original charger, and it still shuts off when charged. At $100 it is kind of expensive, but at the time it was the only charger I could locate. The 1.8 Amp charger I posted a link to should be fine for anyone that wants to save some money and can charge overnight.
As i may have said before i did use a standard AC power cord for the wiring, which is rated kind of low on current, so I tested the temperature of the motor (warm), the controller (warm) and the wiring (also warm). So if possible, it would be better to find a AC cord that was created with 16 gauge wire to minimize heating. I found one at work in a junk drawer, so if I get ambitious I might make another adapter, but for now I will leave it as it is. It runs great!!
I have been thinking about your switch addition. I am a little concerned about the possibility of the switch arcing. I know it is surely an open before close switch, but It would be prudent to make sure that the key is off before switching it. If you happened to operate the switch while the motor was under load, with say 15 Amps going through it at the time it was operated, then it might fire an arc that could result in a short across the 5th battery, which would then melt the wires to the battery and potentially cause a fire.
I know I am conjecturing here, and there may not be any safety issue, but I just want you to be safe. If you can get a 60 volt charger, then there shouldn't be any need for the switch.
Just my thoughts,
Yes your concern is valid. I guess I made some assumptions on how the switch is to be used. Mine is located under the seat so the key must be removed and the seat opened to switch from one voltage to the other. I had no intention of switching on the fly.
However if some one is interested in doing the switch on the fly then a 3 contact double pole relay could be used as a saftey to prevent the situation you discribed. I have never seen a double pole switch stuck on in both positions, but Murphy says it's possible.
My only concern with arcing at the switch, is the resistance that would build up on the contacts causing a voltage drop and excessive heat and premature switch failure.
As for getting a charger, I will as money allows. I have a spare 48v from my RAD2GO scooter, that I may crack open and see what might be done to bring it up to 60v. Even then I might leave the switch in and use the 5th battery as a range extender seeing as how the shunt mod has decreased the range.
The added speed and torque is nice though. Can I go back to the way it was? Oh he!! NO.
Have a good weekend,
Gigigy gigigy...all right another 60v mod.
Veloteq Commuter shunted and added a 12v18a battery top speed 43 km/h awesome!!!
credit to richardb for the computer cord idea just bought a used cord for 5 bucks ,6ft spliced it in the middle and ran it to the seat compartment.Feels much better more confidence in the bike know just wordering if I can insure it or go the zerogas way and try 72v first .Na caps rated a 63v not sure about mofs though.
If you go 72v with the stock controller you'll definitely need 100v caps. You might get by on the 75v mosfets as another modder on here did, but I went with the 100v mosfets too.
Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.
I know this is an old thread, but I have had my liberty town and country which is about the same bike as the xb-600, for about a year now. The guy I bought it from says he added a fifth battery without any mods to the controller. Aside from the acceleration, is there any other benefit to the shunt mod? Will the top speed be just as fast without it? Will the controller burn out without it? I would prefer not to mod the controller if I can avoid it. I am planning on adding 5 new 22ah batteries soon so I appreciate any replies.
win32forth said:"I did what I think is a neat trick with the wiring. I found an old AC line cord (yes I know the amp rating may be too low), and cut it up. I also found an AC socket from an old AC adapter I had laying around, and wired it all together in such a way that I just plugged it into the bike and connected the new battery, without having to make any modifications to the existing wiring. Pretty neat huh? I will be happy to make up a schematic (although it is very simple) if anyone want one."
Hmmm... I guess I'll need a schematic, or at least some instructions in depth. I want to do the 5th battery, but after reading all these posts I'm a bit confused on which way is best and even how to charge them all (all at once, or the pack first, then the 5th second, et.).
This reply is probably going out to nowhere anyway, hahaha! Not many folks are left around to comment -- judging by the posting dates.
But I REALLY appreciate the effort all have made to this forum. I'm on my way to 60v... I'm just kinda piecing it together from old discussions.
I got my 5th battery today. I ordered from a company Wholesale Battery Direct (located in Nevada). http://www.wholesalebatteriesdirect.com/x-treme-scooter-and-bike-batteries/53309-X-treme-XB-600-XB600-Electric-Bike-Battery.html
Now, I need to figure out how to wire it in, or cut it in, or create a dongle (I assume that's what Tom did), but before that I need to figure out where to put it. I guess the storage under the seat will be my first consideration.
Noob question here. I'm kinda wondering... if I splice the fifth battery behind /into the cord that goes to the battery pack, why wouldn't a charger work on all five? I keep reading that people are charging the fifth battery separately. Some have even talked about buying a 60 v charger - but why do that if the 48 v pack is charged by itself?
Currently I'm building the battery harness for under the seat.
Well, I got some time today so I'm just going to jump on splicing into the 5th battery. I'll cut into the black line (after the battery pack plug) and then see how it charges... or not. I was hoping for some verification but I'll just do some experimenting based on the general info.
updating my situation (I guess I'm the only one still doing a mod, haha)
I wired the fifth battery but I'm wondering if I did it right. I assume the charger would charge them all since I spliced in behind the plug that goes to the main battery pack.
The main pack is charging but I don't think the 5th is charging.
I ordered a new controller last month, but so far.... nothing in the mail.
The item is backordered - which worries me. Perhaps I should get two of them if they are gonna be hard to get.
Day four of the new wired 5th battery. I blew a fuse today. Good thing I had extras. The one that blew was the original cheap version. Also, the problem was my own because I attempted to wrangle the mess of wires around the controller and I pulled on the fuse line a bit too much. I had to realign the clip holders and casing. No big. After the new fuse everything was back to normal.
I wanted to do both the shunt mod and the 5th battery, but so far (after a month) the controller has yet to arrive (it's on back order).
I need to get back to the speedometer, again. The wireless set up didn't work because it was out of range by about a foot. I'll try a wired version and either drill the front wheel, or extend the wire to the existing mount on the rear wheel. Also, (as noted in this thread and elsewhere) I'll need to upgrade my charger to one that has alligator clips. I thought wiring behind the plug would charge all five batteries. I assumed the guys on this thread was charging the fifth battery separately because they were taking the battery pack out and indoors. My bike is indoors, so I figured the charger would work. I've asked but nobody has commented (I assumed I was asking a dumb question so nobody answered, haha!).
Anyway, things are progressing along The bike still rides well and I'm still loving the gas-free ride... especially now that it does around 25 mph. I live on an island (Alameda, Ca.) and the entire island is limited at 25 mph, so I'm just fine.
I just bought a used XB-600 for $700 - the seller had made the mods for 60v, the extra battery is under the seat. Seems like a good deal... so far. The charger for the 5th battery has the alligator clips as you mentioned. It did about 28mph tops when I first tried it but this morning after an all-night charge I got up to 30mph on the way to work. Not bad.
My question - can the batteries be charged while on the bike? Is there a port somewhere to plug in the charger? Lifting that heavy battery pack out for charging every night will quickly get to be a pain, I think.
Somnolent soul in a silicon wasteland
Yep, lifting the battery pack will be a pain. You have my sympathy.
The standard port / plug for the XB-600 is on the front of the seat (between your legs as you sit on the bike). It might have a flat rubber cover over it, which can be lifted easily. The plug type is a 3-prong male (as seen on USA computer plugs). http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en/n/09a/3prong-plug-computer-system-monitor-power-cable-cord-30747n.jpg
Yeah, I found that port just below the front of the bike seat but there is no plug in it and if I put a cable in like you showed in your link, where would the other end of that plug in to the battery? I wonder if the whole point is moot with the 5th battery, does that take away the charge-on-bike option? Maybe the two leads now running to the 5th battery under the seat are what used to run to that port?
OH!! I see. So you do NOT have a battery charger with this bike? Interesting.
Yes, that port is for a battery charger. DO NOT plug a cord connecting the bike directly into an outlet with a cable.
The graphic that I linked to only showed the type of prong needed. I didn't mean to imply you *only* needed a cord and nothing else.
I assumed you had a charger (which is standard for this bike).
If you were only given a charger with alligator clips then we can assume the previous owner did all their charging by taking the battery out every time (as you noted).
You can buy a charger online for the XB-600 (which does go into the port on the seat) from eBay, Green Max Parts, TNC Scooter, x-tremescooters.com, et.
However, I can't tell you if the port plug will also charge your 5th battery since I have no idea how they wired it. You'd have to open it up and be specific about the set up (if you're not sure).
So I can't tell you if using the port will charge all 5 batteries (in fact, I've asked on this forum and I haven't got an answer, either) I'm just going to charge it and then use my multimeter to test it (once I get a 60v charger).
Some folks charge the battery pack and the 5th battery separately -- to make sure they are all topped off evenly.
Some folks use parallel port charging.
Some folks have created / spliced plugs to make custom charging ports.
Some folks wire the battery inside the storage, and some under the seat storage.
Once guy even rebuilt the entire bike's battery pan to hold 6 batteries!
I've discovered the best way to find information about this bike is to ask (as you've done) and also to read as many posts (many of them very old) and gather as much info as possible.
A lot of the folks that used to be here have moved on, sold their bikes, or upgraded. But I've found much of the information here is still relevant.
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