Details for the XB-700Li

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jfreeman420
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Details for the XB-700Li

They have updated some of the details for the xb-700 li on the x-treme website. It is a little confusing however. Part of it says no license required and part of it says you will need registration etc. It also says it will have 5 times the range of the xb-600. Does that mean 100 miles? That sounds a little far fetched. Also some pictures show it with pedals installed and others don't. I wonder if they will have two versions one that need registration and a license and another that doesn't. They have also posted the msrp at $1,350 which is very reasonable considering it comes with lithium batteries. I think I may have to trade in my liberty 643.

jfreeman420
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

It also looks like one version has disc brakes and another with drum brakes. Very interesting!!!

gushar
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

Wow...that looks pretty awesome too. It just keeps changing. Of course the site has said from the outset that the info is not necessarily accurate. But, I think that blue/silver is the first one, besides a black/silver, that they've shown with an X-treme logo on it. Before they even said theirs would only be in red. I like that blue/silver color combo alot. Also, notice that the trunk upper rear body area is different on this one from the black one....or the red one that they previously showed. Nice rear loading trunk too! Maybe this blue/silver one is the real deal????

And that range would be 150 miles, rather than 100, if it's going to have 5 times the range of the XB600. I do wonder as well about the speed since I think they do have to stick to 20mph to meet the ebike fed law for no registration. Boy though I'd like one of those with even 75 miles range and...a top speed of just a bit more than the 600...say 25-30mph. And I wonder what voltage these will be?

And yes I might just have to sell the 600 and go for one of these! Hear us AF...maybe we can get another VForum special going!;-)

One thing for sure if anyone gets one soon as they arrive...someone here...please promise to give the rest of us the scoop on it!

Gushar

Gus

wolf3510
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

this bike is kinda like of mine. mine has a 500w motor and gel batteries, 500w is the max allowed in canada unfortunatly.
heres the website http://www.voltcanada.ca/Prestige.htm
but after 2 weekes of owning this bike, i love it driving it is a blast, but..beware it is made in china and after poking around a lil i find that the total manufacturing of this bike is very very low...you'll find it is made very cheap...so what you pay is what you get..
have fun

jfreeman420
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

It looks the same but I'm sure it is very different. The xb 700 has a bigger motor and Lithium batteries. I have the Liberty 643 which is esentially an xb-600 with a bigger motor. I know these bikes aren't the benchmark for quality but then again they are only meant for short trips at 20 mph. I didn't expect more. Instead of the 700 I am going to wait a bit and get the 3500 li. This bike is made to do 60mph and I am sure the quality is much, much better.

wolf3510
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

i hope so, would like to get my hands on one, the price is alot better then the vectrix but as for quality, we'll have to wait and see

ArcticFox
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

The XB-700Li is now available.

If you're interested in these, contact me.

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boyelectric
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

I notice the batteries are LiMn04 Ion... I read in one place (with not much other info) that these are not at all like the LiFePO4 batteries. Does anyone have more insights to their chemistry?

bocabikeguy
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

There is a HUGE difference between LiMn2O4 and LiFePO4 batteries. The most significant difference is that LiMn batteries are prone to a condition called "thermal runaway". What that means is if they get too hot, are overcharged, get wet inside, or are misused in any way - including a problem with the BMS or charger - they will spontaneously catch fire. When these cells catch fire, it looks like model rocket engines igniting. Every cell in the pack will spew extremely hot flames with considerable force, one by one, until all the cells in the pack have been spent.

I have seen this many, many times. I built a concrete bunker to test LiCo and LiMn batteries. If you get a bike with one of these chemistries, I'd suggest you always use asbestos pants when riding, and when you charge make certain there is nothing within 8 feet of the battery that can catch fire or melt.

(Please note, this does not apply to Bosch, Makita or Milwaukee lithium power tool batteries - all LiMn, as long as the battery packs remain sealed and you use the factory chargers. Their cells are made by the eMoli Energy company. These companies have spent millions of dollars developing systems that charge and use the batteries with little risk of fire. The safety comes from some very sophisticated electronics. It also does not apply to laptop batteries, which have much less total energy in the battery pack, and thus are less prone to thermal runaway. Laptop computers also have sophisticated battery management IC's in them to help make them safer.)

ArcticFox
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

The most significant difference is that LiMn batteries are prone to a condition called "thermal runaway".

Source?

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boyelectric
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

Here's an interesting discussion about LiMn batteries:
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/open-revolution-rebreather/11437-using-limn-batteries.html

and a nice research report about the safety of various Li cells:
http://www.valence.com/assets/pdf/exponent_final_report.pdf

And another battery chemistry page:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5A.htm

ArcticFox
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

What are the differences in
LiCoO2
LiCo1
LiCo3
LiNi1
LiNi3
LiMn1
LiMn3
LiMn2O4
LiFePO4

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bocabikeguy
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li
ArcticFox
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

That really doesn't help.

Just because it's on YouTube, doesn't make it official. I'm sure I could send 440volts into a car battery and have a meltdown, too.

And there are different types of "lithium" batteries, not all having the same properties or issues. Are you sure this pertains exactly to LiMn2O4, or just any and all lithium batteries?

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boyelectric
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

What are the differences in
LiCoO2
LiCo1
LiCo3
LiNi1
LiNi3
LiMn1
LiMn3
LiMn2O4
LiFePO4

I wasn't reading it that way. In the test article (http://www.valence.com/assets/pdf/exponent_final_report.pdf), I was reading that version of the Li ion as a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 mixed oxides of Co, Ni, & Mn(not pure LiMnO2), versus LiCoO2, versus LiFeO4. LiFeO4 seemed very stable, the mixed oxides were ok, but marginalized, and the LiCoO2 was a definite hazard.

I'd like something that looked at the pure Mn version of li ion for safety aspects. I'm not sure the mixed oxide test is applicable.

The other page (http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5A.htm) seemed to think that a pure Mn oxide of lithium was, "lower capacity compared to the cobalt-based system... about half that of the cobalt equivalent,...[but] still provides an energy density that is about 50% higher than that of a nickel-based equivalent."

boyelectric
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

Here's another article that summarizes some differences as part of a research study to further Mn oxide chemistries:

http://www.superlatticepower.com/20080602/index.html

"Obstacles of Commercially Available Cathode Materials;
Lithium Cobalt and Nickel oxides: At present the most widely used cathode material is LiCoO2 for Lithium Ion secondary batteries. Another promising material is LiNiO2, however, toxicity and high cost are issues for the cobalt and nickel based layered oxides. A considerable investment has been made in this battery technology that utilizes LiCoO2 with an operating voltage range of 4.2 to 2.75V. Research shows that during operation at high temperature LiCoO2 shows an exothermic reaction which eventually generates loose oxygen and cause fire hazards.

"Lithium Manganese Oxide and Spinel: Recently, manganese based oxides such as LiMn2O4 Spinel and LiMnO2 layered oxides have been studied extensively. The reason was manganese is abundant in nature, less expensive and non-toxic. The situations encountered using manganese was significant capacity fading which is due to dissolution of manganese in the form of Mn+2. Capacity of this Spinel is only 120 Ah/kg and voltage range is a two step complicated solid solution reaction.

"Lithium Iron Phosphate: At present lithium iron phosphate, LiFePO4, is widely used and under investigation considering its low cost and safety. The challenge of this material is that it has a low operating voltage within the range of 3.4V to 2.9V and nominal voltage is 3.2V only. Energy density and voltage range is very low compared to oxide layered and Spinel structure.
Lithium Mixed Oxides: The cathode material with a formulation of LiMn1/3Co1/3Ni1/3O2 is the latest technology. However, the material structure is destroyed once discharged at or below 2.5V and thus limit the use of wide range voltage application."

This would seem to suggest that the hazard of LiMn2O4 or LiMn02 chemistries are reasonably safe? Then again, consider the source. ;)

It also suggests that the mixed oxides version is not rechargeable! Other peoples' thoughts?

bocabikeguy
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

You can believe what you want. I have been testing li-xxx EV batteries for years, and, while LiMn batteries seem to be less likely to go into thermal runaway than LiCo batteries, they can, and often do, ignite in normal, daily use. For that matter, even LiFe batteries, if not manufactured perfectly, can have free lithium in the cell if the cell is abused - and can catch fire. The LiNi chemistries are not practical for EV use, and are bad for the environment.

If you do ride a bike powered by LiMn batteries, you are taking a risk. But then, riding any bike has a risk that you will have a collision with a car. From testing hundreds of LiMn battery packs for years, I would estimate that the risk of your LiMn batteries spontaneously combusting is somewhat greater than the risk of a collision with a car.

I ride all manner of 2-wheeled vehicles. I'm willing to take the risk. I have been hit by a car on my bike and I have had LiMn batteries explode while I was using them. After testing LiMn batteries for years, I'm no longer willing to take the risk of riding a bike powered by them. (Unless it is powered by in-tact Milwaukee, Bosch or Makita power tool battery packs.)

I have several bikes powered by LiFePO4 batteries... mostly DeWalt 36v power tool battery packs. I feel comfortable and safe with A123 or Valence batteries. For me, the jury is still out about the safety of imported LiFePO4 batteries.

- Rob from BocaBike (and also owner of LiFePO4.com)

boyelectric
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

Bocabike, do you have any sources for your opinions? I would very much like to read more, and have been unable to find much about the safety of LiMn2O4 or LiMnO2 cells.

bocabikeguy
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

Why is it that when people find scientific fact inconvenient, they often call it "opinion"?

As I said earlier, my primary source of information is personal experience. My company has a concrete bunker with 24 test stations for testing bicycle lithium-ion battery packs. In recent years, we have put hundreds of LiMn battery packs through many thousands of charge/discharge cycles.

Any manufacturer or salesperson who says that LiMn batteries are "intrinsically safe" is lying. Not even LiFePO4 batteries are intrinsically safe, and they are orders of magnitude safer than LiMn. Mostly-Chinese-made LiMn battery packs are never more than a manufacturing defect or 1 or 2 transistor failures away from catching fire in a very dramatic fashion. The ONLY LiMn battery packs we have found to be sufficiently safe to warrant putting on our bikes are power-tool packs with cells made by eMoli. eMoli seems to have the extreme attention to detail required to accurately manufacture these highly volatile large sized LiMn cells. And the power tool companies have spent millions of dollars on research in packaging, battery management and charging to insure a degree of safety. So basically, riding your bicycle powered by power-tool eMoli packs is as safe as, say, using a handheld circular saw.

Small format LiMn batteries used in laptop computers can be made reasonably safe. But the danger of using these batteries grows exponentially with the watt-hours of the battery pack. Using these small laptop battery cells in a serial-parallel arrangement is even more dangerous than using the highly volatile large cells, unless you are willing to put lots of highly reliable electronics on-board to monitor every single cell, like Tesla does.

If you really want to learn about li-ion chemistry, and what causes LiMn cells to develop free-lithium deposits (the main reason for spontaneous combustion), then there are many trade journals and articles available in print and on the Internet.

Here are some examples:

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/science/85/8551sci1.html

http://www.batteriesdigest.com/lithium___ion_safety.htm (LiMn bicycle batteries are illegal to transport in an airplane!)

http://www.ulbi.com/documents/msdsheets/MSDSLiMn-2.pdf (typical MSDS for a LiMnO2 battery)

http://proceedings.ndia.org/5670/Lithium_Battery-Winchester.pdf (what the Navy says about LiMn: "May vent with flame in response to overcharge conditions" - along with photos)

I believe that LiMn rechargeable batteries are somewhat less likely to spew flames than LiCo batteries. But an uncomfortably large percentage of LiMn batteries WILL spew flames sometime during the 100 - 300 useful cycle life of the batteries.

Did I mention that LiMn batteries generally have a short calendar life? Usually no more than two years from the date of manufacture, whether you use them or not. Three years if you take care of them (keep them at 60% charge when not in use) and five years if you do what I do - store your LiMn batteries in the freezer when not using them.

ArcticFox
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

I'm sorry bocabikeguy, but I can't take your information as proof.

Your first link talks about watching out for fake reports of fires caused by lithium batteries. Again, this generalizes all lithium batteries including your LiFePO.

Second link; "LiMn bicycle batteries are illegal to transport in an airplane". News flash... the 15-inch subwoofers in my car, as well as my CB walkie-talkies are also illegal to transport in an airplane. Don't forget, these dangerous materials were also not allowed: shampoo, suntan lotion, creams, toothpaste, and hair styling gel. I'm sure that driving your electric scooter onto an airplane would normally be frowned upon for other reasons besides the batteries. ;)

The MSDS shows nothing unusual. If there's something that catches your eye, you should check the data sheets for your usual household cleaning items. Or, better yet, try reading the ingredients on a pack of gum or soda pop. Now that's scary!

Your last link I couldn't get Adobe to open it. I'm sure it was the clincher in all this.

.

Another thing I have problems with now is the fact that your opinion is biased - you sell LiFePO batteries; it's in your best interest to look down on your competition. It happens all the time with nearly all companies. That's why I do my own investigations and research to find out all sides of the equations. And so far what I've come up with is lithium metal can be dangerous... and apparently shampoo (burning when it gets in my eyes!).

Unless you have any other non-biased, official documentation for your argument, I'm calling out and saying LiMn2O4 batteries are no more dangerous than anything else in the world.

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boyelectric
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

Seriously, I meant no offense. I have no stake in any of this, other than I'd like to see data and safe, usable batteries. And, well, okay, I'd like to buy a better scooter...

Why is it that when people find scientific fact inconvenient, they often call it "opinion"?

That's because it was presented without sources; hence, hearsay until shown in a different light. Please don't take offense, just look at how it might come across...

As I said earlier, my primary source of information is personal experience. My company has a concrete bunker with 24 test stations for testing bicycle lithium-ion battery packs. In recent years, we have put hundreds of LiMn battery packs through many thousands of charge/discharge cycles.

Any manufacturer or salesperson who says that LiMn batteries are "intrinsically safe" is lying. Not even LiFePO4 batteries are intrinsically safe, and they are orders of magnitude safer than LiMn. Mostly-Chinese-made LiMn battery packs are never more than a manufacturing defect or 1 or 2 transistor failures away from catching fire in a very dramatic fashion. The ONLY LiMn battery packs we have found to be sufficiently safe to warrant putting on our bikes are power-tool packs with cells made by eMoli. eMoli seems to have the extreme attention to detail required to accurately manufacture these highly volatile large sized LiMn cells. And the power tool companies have spent millions of dollars on research in packaging, battery management and charging to insure a degree of safety. So basically, riding your bicycle powered by power-tool eMoli packs is as safe as, say, using a handheld circular saw.

That's more like it, and pretty damning, to say the least. Can you expound on this more? I'm really interested to see more of your company's testing data, if you are willing to share. It sounds like your company has been accumulating a lot of information.

Small format LiMn batteries used in laptop computers can be made reasonably safe. But the danger of using these batteries grows exponentially with the watt-hours of the battery pack. Using these small laptop battery cells in a serial-parallel arrangement is even more dangerous than using the highly volatile large cells, unless you are willing to put lots of highly reliable electronics on-board to monitor every single cell, like Tesla does.

If you really want to learn about li-ion chemistry, and what causes LiMn cells to develop free-lithium deposits (the main reason for spontaneous combustion), then there are many trade journals and articles available in print and on the Internet.

Here are some examples:

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/science/85/8551sci1.html

From this article, they have bad things to say about the mixed oxide li-ion cells, "An approach to better battery safety is designing components such as electrodes from new materials that stand up to abusive conditions more readily than the ones used at present. Most of today's lithium-ion batteries make use of a lithium-intercalated carbon (LiC6) anode and a cathode made of a metal oxide such as LiCoO2 or mixed oxides containing lithium, cobalt, nickel, and manganese."

But they also go on to say, about another version (not the one we are discussing, but is a version of the Mn oxide cell), "Other researchers are also studying the titanate-based system. For example, at Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago, postdoc Humberto Joachin, chemical engineering professor Jai Prakash, and their coworkers have found on the basis of thermal analysis methods that the titanate and manganese oxide-based electrodes generate less heat during charging and discharging than do conventional materials. And at Argonne National Laboratory, Ilias Belharouak, Khalil Amine, and their coworkers have probed the electrochemical, thermal, and safety profile of the titanate and manganese oxide-based system with an assortment of techniques. Overall the group finds that the system yields good electrochemical performance and resists explosion and thermal runaway (J. Electrochem. Soc. 2007, 154, A1083). "It could turn out to be one of the safest lithium-ion battery systems," Belharouak says."

http://www.batteriesdigest.com/lithium___ion_safety.htm (LiMn bicycle batteries are illegal to transport in an airplane!)

This one says that Mn is safer, but that there are some unspecified concerns: " Building safer LiIon batteries: An argument is made for considering replacement of the cobalt oxide cathode material with iron phosphate materials. One reason is that overcharge can lead to thermal runaway because 50 percent of the lithium remains in the fully discharged cobalt oxide cathode. Even construction with manganese oxide, while expanding the safety envelope, offers safety concerns. Secondary reasons include the availability of cobalt oxide and incomplete environmental impacts."

http://www.ulbi.com/documents/msdsheets/MSDSLiMn-2.pdf (typical MSDS for a LiMnO2 battery)

Does an MSDS for LiFePO4 battery look very different? I have not seen one, so if you have access to one, it might be useful to show how they compare and contrast.

http://proceedings.ndia.org/5670/Lithium_Battery-Winchester.pdf (what the Navy says about LiMn: "May vent with flame in response to overcharge conditions" - along with photos)

This Powerpoint slide show mentions that

Li/SO2 primary batteries
– May vent mildly in response to a variety of conditions includingage, short circuits, overdischarge, and high temperature exposure
– May vent violently due to manufacturing defects– May explode when charged at moderate to high current rates to
greater than 100% capacity
Li/MnO2 primary batteries
– May vent with flame in response to moderate to high rate discharge into voltage reversal
– Severity depends on both abuse conditions (rate and duration) and chemical composition of the battery
Li Ion rechargeable batteries
– May vent with flame in response to overcharge conditions– Severity depends strongly on combination of current rate, over-
voltage and duration

That sounds pretty bad. And the pictures are astounding! I wish the pictures were more clear about which chemistry of the li-ion are being shown exploding/flaming, but holy cow!

I believe that LiMn rechargeable batteries are somewhat less likely to spew flames than LiCo batteries. But an uncomfortably large percentage of LiMn batteries WILL spew flames sometime during the 100 - 300 useful cycle life of the batteries.

Is that number from your company's testing? We might as well go back to SLA...

Did I mention that LiMn batteries generally have a short calendar life? Usually no more than two years from the date of manufacture, whether you use them or not. Three years if you take care of them (keep them at 60% charge when not in use) and five years if you do what I do - store your LiMn batteries in the freezer when not using them.

That also sounds pretty bad!

What is your company?

solutionsgem
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

This information is very interesting. I am very much into renewable energy and battery technology. I almost bought the lead acid powered moped before. I'm glad I waited. I know the lithium battery will make a big difference in reliability and durability of the battery. I understand what can happen with the Lithium batteries and will take all the necessary precautions just in case.
It is very sad to know that it took a $4.00 for a gallon of gas to start mass producing a more powerful battery technology. I am sure there are better technologies out there, but the price is prohibitive still. I even considered building an E Bike with a lithium battery. The better quality battery alone was going to cost me what I paid for the whole moped. Not a good idea...

I am happy to report that I got my Blue and Silver Xtreme 700Li on August 1st after five day wait. The Bike came undamaged and ready to be assembled. It took me about an hour to get everything ready. This is not for someone that is not mechanically inclined. The instructions are incomplete. I can see many people having problems assembling it.
The Bike looks exactly the same as the pictures in this forum. It is nice looking vehicle. Unfortunately there are no LED lights in this Bike. There is not a three speed switch neither. The battery came charged up and ready to ride. I am worried because the first time I connected the battery there was a spark when connecting the battery.
The Bike rides very quiet and is just fast enough for me. There is not an odometer and the speedometer only reads Kilometers. I checked my speed with a hand held GPS. The maximum speed I could achieved was 20 MPH. 18 MPH with two riders with a total weight of 300 lbs on flat streets. I have no hills where I live. Everything worked perfectly in the Bike, I even found out how to activate the Alarm System. I just pushed the Horn Button right after I locked the Bike with the key. It even has a vibration sensor. The alarm is very uncomfortable to hear.

Unfortunately the Battery will not charge while connected to the Bike. The charger lights up green while connected to the bike, as if the battery was charged. When I remove the battery out the battery compartment and connect the charger directly. The charger's light's up red, the fan starts running and charges the battery.

I removed the seat to check for voltage in the connections. There was 50 volts in the Bike connectors while the battery is connected to the bike. When I checked the voltage in the battery connector with out the battery connected to the connector, I could not find any voltage. I suspect there needs to be a load for me to find any voltage. However it would seem like the battery is not being charge while in the bike.

Does any one have any idea what might be problem?
Am I doing anything wrong?

I will call Xtreme on Monday for technical assistance.

My next project is to open the Battery box to find out what kind of Lithium batteries came with the Bike. The Batteries seem to be on the heavy side, 25 lbs. I have not way to compare them since I have no idea how heavy the SLA batteries are.

The fit and finish was amazing high quality. I can see bike lasting several years with proper maintenance.

The brakes are drums in both front and rear.

I hope I can resolve the charging issue. I do not like the idea of having to remove the battery every time I need to charge it. I am sure the Bike's battery connectors would not last too long.

Here are some pictures of the Bike:

PICT0001.jpg

PICT0005.jpg

PICT0006.jpg

PICT0007.jpg

PICT0009.jpg

PICT0013.jpg

PICT0014.jpg

Please let me know what you think.

It would seem that I already have some buyers among my relatives.

Thank you.

Update :

I have been using the bike non stop since I received it on August 1st. It works flawlessly. Is is perfect for my me. It goes up to 20 MPH, is quiet and easy to drive.
I have been recharging the battery outside the bike because it would not charge it while connected to the bike. The charger works fine. It draws 2.00 Amps and 150 Watts while charging. It took .75 Kw hour the first time I charged it. I measured it with my Kill-a-watt meter.

So far the battery has not exploded or gotten hot. I will get all the necessary precautions and charge it only while I am able to supervise it personally. I will charge it on a separate circuit and in a open space.

I love the fact that I am using my 4 Megawatt Photovoltaic Solar Electric System to charge my everyday vehicle. No more foreign energy dependence! I wish our government would subsidize the placement of Photovoltaic Solar Electric System on every Home where there is enough Sun and a Wind Generator where there is enough Wind. We would become an energy independent Nation!

My next project will be to open the battery compartment to find our what kind of batteries the bike came with and the brand if available. I will post some photos then

There is a huge interest in my area about electric bikes. I will test this bike for a while to make sure it is safe to sell to my customers.

Thank you for the information.

Energy Independence For A Bright Future.

www.solutionsgem.com

AztecFemBone
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

I will call Xtreme on Monday for technical assistance.

I'll restrain myself and just say open your service ticket A. S. A. P. (rather than waiting for tomorrow to call).

jdh2550_1
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li
I will call Xtreme on Monday for technical assistance.

I'll restrain myself and just say open your service ticket A. S. A. P. (rather than waiting for tomorrow to call).

AFB - I got a chuckle out of this. I admire your restraint!

solutionsgem - any chance you could take a picture of one of the batteries? Thanks.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

laurierocs
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

Can the "Shunt mod" also be done on the 700Li? And added batteries to increase speed?

solutionsgem
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

I will take pictures of the batteries on Monday or Tuesday.

Energy Independence For A Bright Future.

www.solutionsgem.com

boyelectric
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

Any updates on range, hills, battery origin, etc?

wolf3510
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

nice bike love the color ...

jfreeman420
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

I had the same problem with my SLA bike. I noticed that when I plugged the charger into the wall and then into the bike the light was green. You must plug it into the bike first and then the wall to get it to charge. I hoe the problem is that simple.

wolf3510
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

oh mine i can charge either way bike first then wall, or wall then bike...i have no problems....

boyelectric
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Re: Details for the XB-700Li

I wonder how many people have received the XB-700li? I was sure hoping for updates on range, hills, battery origin, etc. before placing my order.

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