New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

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zerogas
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hyperob,
I ordered the wrong tires for mine. I assumed they were 10" LOL and ordered michelin s1 tires. I now know the tires we need are either 90/90-12(almost stock size) or 100/90-12(a hair bigger than stock size). Unfortunately, the only tire I can find in 100/90-12 is a dunlop and it's on nationwide backorder. On the brighter side of things, I was going to add a 6th battery in parallel with the 5th 12ah battery from my 60v conversion and for shiggles I added the 6th in series! This little 600 watt motor was hauling at 35mph exactly on the speedo!!!!! LOL, I put some videos on youtube, so check them out here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2w8Mo3lh2Q
Good Luck,
Warren

Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.

hyperob
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Chuck Yaeger Strikes again!

That has got to be a land speed record for the XB-600...It should be renamed the x-1. I saw a replica of the one Chuck Yaeger broke the speed of sound with at the science museum in L.A today. I have to say it made me think of Zerogas.

Cheers

hyperob

zerogas
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

LMAO!!

Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.

hyperob
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hey Everyone,

I did the 60Volt mod last night to the scooter and it was way easier than I thought. Much easier than the Shunt mod. I used the same battery as was in the original pack and wired it up the MilleyM way and it worked without a hitch. My bike hasn't hit thirty but it will go a steady 28mph and around 22mph up inclines. Not bad and I still have room under the seat for everything I had under there except the charger which I don't use at work.

So far so good. I will let you know if I see any adverse effects -- other than speeding. ;)

Cheers and Happy Riding!

P.S. Now we wait to see what Zerogas will come up with next.........

bocabikeguy
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

I do not understand, is this some kind of new math? 48 volts is 80% of 60 volts, if you have 80% of the total power then adding another 12-volts is only adding 20% more voltage, how do you come up with 25%? It seems you took 48-volt pack and allowed each battery to represents 25% of the voltage which would be true. Then you added another 12-volts, so you assumed another 25%, but that totals 125% the way I was tough to add. Can someone clarify?

So, if I only have 20% more power how can I go 25% faster?

Chas, I'm not sure if you are just teasing me, so at the risk of seeming foolish, I will answer.

You have to look at the problem in terms of what you have, and what you can expect to gain. The total voltage when you start is 48v.

If your bike goes 20 mph at 48v and you add a 12v battery, your bike will go 25% faster.

25% of 20 mph is 5 mph. So, your bike will go 5 mph faster, or 25mph, at 60v.

chas_stevenson
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

bocabikeguy,

Thanks for the answer, I see now I was looking at this from an algebraic view and therefore did not really understand the principle. I now see that 12-volts is 25% of 48-volts and you do indeed add 25% more voltage. Sorry my bad. Thanks for keeping this old man on his toes.

Grandpa Chas S.

zerogas
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

LOL!! I've already begun the next step.. I ordered 12 new 100v mosfets (4110's) from www.digikey.com which I will be replacing the stock mosfets with, as well as the capacitors with their 100v counterparts out of the 72v controller I ordered before. I intended originally to find a higher watt motor for the current 60v setup, but I can't justify spending $600 - 800 more on this scooter for 10 more mph. Instead I will be running 72v again and doing some long term testing with that setup. 35mph is fast enough on this scoot anyway. Also in the works, I bought a rad2go sunbird off of ebay for $102! It doesn't run because water got in the hub motor, so I'll be either fixing and overvolting it, or getting a 1000 watt dc motor and large sprocket setup to power it(not sure till I do some testing to see what's wrong with it). Then, the future will hold a car conversion (144volt 70+mph) hopefully before winter. :) I'll keep everyone posted.
Congrats on the successful mod, Rob.
Keep modding!!
-Warren

Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.

depetro
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Well hyperob, your positive review and ardent enthusiasm have finally convinced me that I'm probably going to slot an XB-600 into my new 6 mile daily commute. I do have a question for you. I'm new to California and frankly the wording of the electric bicycle/moped part of the Vehicle code (in all of its incarnations, be it the DMV site, the VHC itself, and various repastings) is a bit confusing to me. My interpretation is that the XB-600 is a motorized bicycle. I can't figure out if it falls under VC Section 406[a] which appears to have a maximum speed of 30mph or the later 406 which limits the speed to 20mph. Now, I can guarantee that out of the box its a moot point, but a year from now after I've probably modded it, it'll be capable of hitting over 30mph. Again, maybe California cops are pretty lenient on this stuff, but back home in Ohio they'd prefer to pull over a perfectly legal motorbike/moped/scooter to hassle him/her than a car going 10mph over the speed limit (note: that's a bit editorial and not really intended to start a flame war).

Also, did you have to go to the DMV and get the $6 sticker or is that unnecessary?

hyperob
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hey depetro,

I too did some research on the whole motorized bicycle thing here in California. I will relay my quest and see if it helps you out:

First thing I did was call my local police dept. They had no clue what a motorized bicycle was. They asked if it went over 30mph and I said no. The local police said I didn't need to register it with them (bicycles need a license in Glendale). They didn't see a problem but said to call CHP.

I called the CHP and pretty much got the same response. They said to call the DMV.

I did more research and started to believe from what I read that I needed to "register" the XB and get and M2 license. I sent away for the proper forms and made an appointment with the local DMV. Drove the XB all the way there (8miles at 28mph....Sweet). Once I got there I showed them the paperwork with the serial number for the XB and my application for an M2 permit. They had no idea what to do with me. They took everything and went back in a big huddle around a computer terminal. Fifteen minutes later the person comes back and says that all I needed to do was get a license plate for the XB ($17). Its a one time fee and you don't have to register the vehicle every year. They said to send the paperwork to Sacramento and a plate would be issued.

I then asked about taking the test for the M2 and they said it was unecessary. If I had a class C (standard) then I was good to go.

I stood there for a moment taking this in and then I said "but I read that I had to do such and such and this and that..." The person just looked at me and said "$17. Send the paperwork to Sacramento...have a good day."

So that is my experience so far with the California DMV.

By the way, I ride past my local police station everyday on my way to and from work and have been seen and waved to by police many times and have never been stopped. I get nervous sometimes cause I think they are going to hastel me but....nothing. The funny thing is I don't even have the plate yet. I guess they have bigger fish to fry.

Hope this helps or not.... I can't tell anymore.... ;) I am sure some people have had a nightmarish time getting to the bottom of it and your experience may be different.

depetro
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Sweet. That's kind of what I was hoping. I was fairly sure that at the worst it was a one-time 17$ registration, at the best nothing needing to be done on my part. I called up the DMV about 2 months ago before I got sent out here, but they weren't too knowledgeable and said I might not need to do anything if it had pedals.

I'd love to get an M2 or better yet an M1, but I'm crazy busy at the moment and really don't need a bike that big yet. If I need one in a year or so then I'll reconsider my options and look for something bigger. But for now I'd prefer to "keep it simple, stupid."

Also, this is not really a deal breaker, but have you tried to pedal the XB-600? Somehow I'm assuming that its a huge pain. Obviously, I'm hoping to never run the batteries down, but who knows.

hyperob
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hey depetro

Forget the pedals. You end up looking like a d-bag if you try to use them. I took them off and keep them in the storage under the seat if a cop stops me.

The pedals really are only there to make it a "motor assisted bicycle"...yeah right.

Cheers

hyperob

depetro
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

That's kind of what I was thinking. I can't imagine pedaling a hundred pound bike with my fat butt on it. Plus I couldn't really even figure out how you'd have to sit on it to pedal correctly. Oh and the fact that it'd just make it wider. I'm sure motorists would love me scratching up their vehicles as I tried to get around them.

zerogas
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

I threw my pedals away! LOL, If my batteries go down, I'll be calling for help, I can't pedal this bike! For the record, Kentucky must not care about scooters, I pass by cops all the time and they don't even look twice. They assume it's a 50cc scooter buzzing by, and Kentucky doesn't register 50cc scooters or give them plates. HAHAHA! If I had the spare cash for the xm3500 I'd love to get it, and I'm sure it would have to be licensed as a motorcycle here.

Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.

laurierocs
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Wow! I can't get enough of this board! I enjoy reading everyone's posts! Especially about the XB-600.

Just to add my 2 cents...the laws in Nebraska seem to be different than every other state.

-It has to have pedals to be considered a moped. Which means, no licensing, no insurance and no motorcycle license.

-Top speed not to exceed 30 mph. Also since it is powered, not allowed to ride on bicycle trails or sidewalks.

-Wheels should be more than 14" or it could be considered a scooter(stand-up kind) which is totally illegal here on sidewalk or street.

So, if I buy one I'll have to leave on the ugly pedals...for show.

Laurie

zerogas
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Look at the bright side... They make another good place to rest your feet. :)

Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.

hyperob
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hey Reikiman,

Shouldn't this topic have been put with the rest of the XB-600 posts? Its a little lonely out here....;)

All the best,

hyperob

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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Look at the bright side... They make another good place to rest your feet. :)

I can tell you threw away your pedals. ;)

I think it is dangerous to rest your feet on the pedals. And that it is all but impossible to use the pedals.

The pedals are inconvenient, but they are required here by law. Removing the pedals could mean jail time. We leave the pedals on our scooters, but suggest to people that they not use the pedals, to keep the pedals folded and the cranks horizontal, and to be careful - especially backing up.

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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hi all, first post here, and this seemed like as good a place as any.

First of all, what an incredible resource. Thanks to all of you for sharing your knowledge.

I have a Vego SX600 in pristine shape (wasn't ridden for a few years) that I bought years ago when electric scooters first were commonly available. I love the little thing and would never get rid of it. Every kid in the city envies me when I zip around on it.

I also bought an X-treme XB-600 a couple of months ago for my wife (first) with my tax rebate - thanks, Dubya - to see if it was suitable for a big guy like me (220 lbs). I was hesitant because of the truly awful things I've read about their service, but took the plunge anyway. I have been totally satisfied with this bike and plan to get another next month, especially after seeing the success you people have had with the shunt mod and the 60v mod. Here it is just after arrival, you can see all the parts aren't even on it yet (just the most important ones, lol)...

IMG00035.jpg

As you can also see, we are lucky enough to live where it's good riding weather all year around.

For the record, my only problem was that the throttle malfunctioned while riding (real nice!). At least the brakes still worked to kill the motor. X-Treme mailed me another one immediately, so score one for their service department.

Other notes: Rather than remove the speaker from the turn signal module, I filled its opening with epoxy. That way you still get a little beep that reminds you to turn your blinkers off.

Loose mirrors: Mine were loose but it turned out I simply hadn't tightened them adequately.

I plan to get another XB-600 next month for myself and mod it immediately for my 4-mile, rather hilly, work commute. I've been riding my wife's and, except for the hill problems, it works great.

The mod I'm really waiting for someone to come up with is a viable lithium battery pack. I had been thinking about the 700li but things I've read in the forums about the packs from X-Treme worry me.

Thanks again to all of you for a ton of info on BOTH my Vego AND the XB. As I perform my mods I will definitely take pictures and share.

Sundog
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600
Yes. Speed is directly proportional to voltage. 5 batteries will make you go 25% faster than 4 batteries (5/4).

I do not understand, is this some kind of new math? 48 volts is 80% of 60 volts, if you have 80% of the total power then adding another 12-volts is only adding 20% more voltage, how do you come up with 25%? It seems you took 48-volt pack and allowed each battery to represents 25% of the voltage which would be true. Then you added another 12-volts, so you assumed another 25%, but that totals 125% the way I was tough to add. Can someone clarify?

So, if I only have 20% more power how can I go 25% faster?

Smarter than a fifth grader?
Grandpa Chas S.

Simple. 48 volts gives you 20% less power than 60 volts (48 is 80% of 60), and 60 volts gives you 25% more power than 48 (60 is 125% of 48; 25% more, in other words). There is no discrepancy, in one calculation you are comparing to the original voltage, in the other you are comparing with the new voltage.

Where's a fifth grader when you need him! ;)

hyperob
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hey Sundog,

Good luck on modding the XB. Done right, they will definitely enhance the bike. I've been running mine at 60volts with the "shunt" mod with no problems. The parts that are wearing out are all the incidentals and not the major components.

Regarding the LI pack. I had emailed one of the LI battery dealers on Ebay and he said that they could build a LI pack for the XB-600 to fit in the original battery holder and would come with a compatible charger. Its about $900 at this point. That is four sets of LA batteries for the XB. I don't know if it makes sense at this point unless you absolutely need the extra distance.

Cheers and Happy Riding.

zerogas
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Welcome, Sundog
Congrats on your new xb 600(the best looking x-treme scooter) :) Good luck on the mods and any help we can give along the way, feel free to ask.
-Warren

Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.

Sundog
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Thanks Rob and Warren!

Now that I'm up to speed on these mods I can't wait to get another and start hacking on it. I don't want to mess with this one because my wife is just barely confident riding it, I'll mod mine first and let her ride it to show her that zippier is SAFER, not more dangerous!

LOL, in my case "viable" includes "financially sensible", so I think I'll be holding off on the lithium packs for a while. If I was going to spend that kind of cash right now (and I'm still considering it) I think I'd get one of the bigger bikes.

Looking forward to sharing ideas!

Sundog
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

The parts that are wearing out are all the incidentals and not the major components.

Hmm! What "incidentals" are wearing out after only two months of owning it? That sounds a little worrisome.

Sundog
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Sorry to be posting on this thread so much, but I don't want to start a new one for such a minor question. I want to know if someone can explain the braking on this bike to me.

On my XB600, the right brake lever (front brake) obviously has some electrical function going on when I squeeze it - it acts like a power brake (is that a feature of this bike?). It's MUCH too "grabby" and so far I see no way to adjust the non-mechanical part of it. (I'm also confused since the motor is, of course, on the REAR wheel.) The left brake lever, the one for the rear wheel, feels completely normal when I squeeze it - like a bike or ordinary sccoter brake.

Is this normal? What's going on here? At first I thought "cool, regenerative brakes" but that isn't so. Are they power brakes? (Why in the world would someone put electric brakes on an electric scooter?)

Any info is appreciated.

hyperob
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hey Sundog,

By incidentals, I mean things like the keyswitch ignition which lasted a month and some of the bolts and screws that stripped immediateley and the cheap blade fuse holder that comes with the bike. Things like that.

As for the braking system. Yep that's it. What it is is that the right brake has a cutoff for the motor which is required by law I believe for most E-bikes. I agree its a little rough and my brakes already squeak (since I've been riding at 30mph I think its a little more strain on them.) I am looking to see what I can do for that. If anyone has any ideas I am all ears.

Ask all the questions and post all the comments you want this is what this forum is about....sharing info and concerns.

Cheers

Sundog
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Thanks Rob,

I'm going to put the thing up on its stand (how convenient is that thing!) tonight and experiment. Something still doesn't make sense to me. When I initially adjusted the brakes I adjusted them with the power off, and my method of doing so was to tighten them until they interfered with freewheeling and then back them off a bit. So I know that, under no power, the rear wheel freewheels very smoothly. So what isn't clear to me is why, with the throttle at zero and coasting down a hill, the cutoff should be felt at all - the motor's already freewheeling, right?

It acts more as if it's actually assisting the braking process - it acts like the effect is more pronounced the more you squeeze the handle, which shouldn't happen if it's a simple cutoff. I seem to remember reading somewhere in the often contradictory descriptions that this model had "power brakes", silly as that sounds...

I ordered an extra controller today so I can go ahead and play around with the shunt mod and get a head start. I just have to remember to swap the controllers back before my wife rides it, LOL!

hyperob
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hey Sundog,

Thats a good point about going downhill but I think someone posted a long time ago (could have been Gushar) about that problem and some had suggested that it actually adds resistance to the motor to make it stop I am not an electrical engineer so I don't know what is exactly the process for doing that but I think that is how it works.

Overall, I think you will find the brakes to be the worst part of the bike. IMHO I think they are mediocre at best and don't inspire a whole lot of confidence especially once you get into heavy traffic at over 25mph. I am looking to see what can be done about the brakes right after I isolate all the rattles and little noises and make those go away. :) I think most of the stuff comes from the rear trunk. Everytime I hit a pothole the bike makes some rattling sounds and I think I have to get better bolts for that trunk. The squeaking brakes are next on the list after that.

Good luck modding you will definitely see an improvement in the bike but a slight loss in range. The "shunt" mod and 60V mod are I think, almost a necessity for safe scootering in traffic.

Rob

depetro
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hey Rob,

Random point about your noises. Did you attach the rubber pad b/w the metal rack on the back of the bike and the plastic trunk? Mine used to holler like a banshee before I put that part in. Just throwing out ideas to help.

hyperob
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hey Depetro

Yeah at first I didn't but I finally figured out what it was for but I think the bolts are too long and loose. I am going to the hardware store and going to get shorter bolts and reseat the whole thing. Hopefully that will work.

Re: the black rubber pad: They (X-Treme)could let you know in the manual what its for. It took a couple of hourse to figure what you were supposed to do with it. :)

Thanks for the thought, that was a good one.

JamesS
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Re: New (Happy) owner of an XB-600

Hello all,
Just a quick note on the trunk rattle noise. In my case it was the lid that makes so much noise on every bump. I took the felt side of some velcro and put it over the lower lip of the trunk where the lid meets it an this has stopped the noise. Of course your mileage may very!

Happy scooting
JamesS

Happy scooting,
JamesS

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