ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

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MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Just a question Johnny. When riding do you actually see the Amps go any higher than 115A? Because I've rarely seen my CA display higher than 115A but it will store a peak of around 125A sometimes.

Phil, remember that your fleet version ride has limited current via a controller setting. I also regularly see above 160A between 30 and 60km/h full acceleration with my still limited Kelly controller, same motor as yours. It is a very good thing your motor has a temperature sensor that reports back to your Sevcon. That would actually allow the Sevcon's 115A maximum setting to be freed up almost completely so you could enjoy a far more spirited riding experience in moderate temp. conditions :-) But in summer of course that water cooling idea would be a good one indeed!
The only thing requiring a current limit even at colder motor temperatures would be to guard the motor traction magnets from demagantization through the massive currents that could flow...

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I just got finished going through all the posts.

Great thing you are doing to help out and Great job on all the fixes. Wish I was more Electric inclined, but sadly I am more mechanical. Which isn't too bad for a girl ;)

Looks like CHL will not be able to get me a discount on the CHL cells for the Puma maxi unless I can actually get people to buy it here. But I do not think there is anyone who would be working on the Electric Scooters here. Most are all Gas :(
Which is really too bad. Maybe I shouldn't get the Puma since it is so new and if there are any problems I will not be able to get it fixed.
But with the Sevcon controller, and CHL 28 100v batteries it is hard to pass up.

Wish they could put those things in the VK2008 and an 8000w hub.
I am still not clear on if the new Scooters have a BMS and which type as none is listed on the web site.

I am bookmarking this thread so I can keep my updates as how it all works out.

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)


My friend,Usd3980/pc already very good discount price based on such good performance MAXI scooter with 8 years/50000km warranty on lithium battery !

I think Phils spent more money than you on smaller VK 6kw scooter !

sky road.jpg

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Is there BMS on these new Scooters ?
I am sure that the newer VK2008 have been updated a little more since Phil got his

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Yes,all models come with new BMS who have each cell information,CAN,SOC,temperature ..........etc !

new BMS.jpg

We have improved Tyre,Shock,dashboard and BMS after Phil's VK model..

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)


My friend,Usd3980/pc already very good discount price based on such good performance MAXI scooter with 8 years/50000km warranty on lithium battery !

sky road.jpg

Mountain, you are speaking of Puma here? But then again, you do not like sending single scooters around, right? You are REALLY tempting me there :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

My friend, already very good discount price based on such good performance MAXI scooter with 8 years/50000km warranty on lithium battery !

sky road.jpg

Mountain, you are speaking of Puma here? But then again, you do not like sending single scooters around, right? You are REALLY tempting me there :-)

MEroller, The Puma has the 180A Sevcon and 28 cell CHL and I think 9kw motor (?)

VK2008 does not have those, (this is the model Phil has). It is 6kw, CHL 72v50Ah LFP and 150A Sine wave controller.

At least this is what is on his web site

Puma sounds great, but too $$ for me right now and a single sent scooter is not profitable for him I know :(
Le Sigh ... I will have to wait till I hit the lotto ;)

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Mountain, you are speaking of Puma here? But then again, you do not like sending single scooters around, right? You are REALLY tempting me there :-)

Dear (edit) MERoller,of course it is my pleasure to offer you one PUMA if you want to replace old FURY,it is another concept scooter!

I have one shipment to Hamburg 2 weeks later,do you want to join your sample with them ?

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Mountain and others, I'm not really in favour of publishing the full names of people or dealer prices publicly like this, some people might want to make a living of these scooters and that might be a problem if everyone knows your markup...

M.Chen
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Ok,so sorry,It is a pity that I can't edit the post now,I will take care next time !

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Sorry, I edited mine.
he had said the price before himself so I guess I wasn't thinking.

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

VK2008 does not have those, (this is the model Phil has). It is 6kw, CHL 72v50Ah LFP and 150A Sine wave controller.

Not quite right there. Here are the parts in my scooter
* Sevcon Gen 4, Size 4
* 40v-116v
* 420A (10s), 350A (2mins), 140A (constant)
* 8Kw hub motor (so I've been told)

But my scooter is a eRider PDT spec one which has been programmed to stay around 115A. 72v x 115A = 8280W

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

This post is to stop the bold text

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

According to his web site
Here is the"Full size and luxury Pizza cargo electric scooter"
http://www.erider.cn/product/html/?92.html

here is the VK2008 w/ both L1e and L3e EEC homologation
http://www.erider.cn/product/html/?91.html

There is not one listed as an 8000w hub motor.

The Puma sounds more like what you have,which is why I was so interested in it. But I do like the model of the VK2008
http://www.erider.cn/product/html/?90.html

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

The VK2008 with Sevcon controller (180A) was listed as 8000W but since he changed to the chinese Sine Wave controller (150A) the spec has changed to 6000W, still using the same motor.
I think you can buy the VK2008 with the Sevcon and 8kW spec., just ask him.
Nowadays they don't manufacture the motors themselves but buys them from another company, might be that the quality is better, the Puma motors also comes from there.

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Yes, I noticed the Australian Erider website no longer lists the scooter as being 8000w. But my scooter is a VK2008 with a 350A sevcon (115A limited) and I can readily get over 8000w.

Here is my scooter
Mt Stromlo 3.JPG

Here is a close up of my motor
axle nut.JPG

Oh, On a side note, I have not had anymore problems with the rear axle nut coming loose since I used loktite on it last time.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I know that Phil has the Sevcon and the 8kw hub. I was hoping for that.
I was just listing what he has on his website.
I am still very new with the Electronics and how they work on the Scooters. I am learning more and more from here.
(Btw, thanks for this site ! it is the Bomb !)

I need something that will give me 40mph constant without over stressing it out. I need not go over that, but you know. Better to get bigger and do less stress, then smaller and have it not last as long.

I have a feeling that if you order what you have (Phil) it would cost as much as the Puma.... so might as well get the Puma :D
I need to save more money and find someone that CAN work on the Electric Scooters. They just are not as big here either. And you would think they would be on Cape Cod. i think I need to call a few places and get them to buy Electric !! ;)
I already have sent out e-mails and nothing has come back. Some places have gone out of business too

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I think it's great that you are interested tigger! The fact you're mechanically minded is also a bonus. That PUMA does look very nice :) See, with me being eletronically minded, I was not keen to buy a petrol scooter because I don't know how to fix them if something went wrong. I used to race radio controlled electric cars and that was a wealth of knowledge. The scooter is just a big version (except for 0-150km/h in 1 second), Battery pack plugs into speed controller, speed controller plugs into the motor and throttle.

64km/h is a breeze for an 8000w motor regardless of which bike you get, good fuel economy at that speed too. It's about 6500w to get up to that speed but sits on 1000w once at 60km/h

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Thanks :)
That is why I was hoping to get some dealers here in MA to get these from Chen.
Problem is that we are (currently) getting 12-18 inches of more snow. So getting them to talk about it is going to be hard right now.

I get that battery-controller-motor/throttle ... I just get a little lost with figuring the Ah and Watt and Volt to work together (as in what I need and how they all work together.) Plus having ridden Motorcycles all my life makes it harder to grasp

I know the bigger the battery the better. Like how my F-350 Diesel p/u has 2 big batteries to get it going, and how it runs on Compression not spark. That is easy.
But I want to make sure I know what I am getting into if something goes wrong I can fix it if no one is around.

Both of his Scooters look FAB !!

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

All 3 you mean! ;-)

The Thunder has a little bit more rigid, stiffer frame and I personally like it more than the VK2008 which I had before. Of course the VK is easier to "step through".
20121109_231208.jpg

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Well..... that pic makes it look like the Terminator haha

I like the Thunder, but like the "step though" a little more.
I was basing on looks as they all have similar guts, or can be made similar.
I can't exactly say what it was that didn't make me think about the Thunder. But I did like the way the front looked from a head on look :)

Any more updates on all these scooters ?

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

So a little back on track here.

Phil, What is the WHITE cord I see you changed to for charging ?

Is it just an extension cord ? If so is it a certain kind/type ?

And is it plugged into the original cord in the seat or an all new cord in general ?

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

So a little back on track here.

Phil, What is the WHITE cord I see you changed to for charging ?

Is it just an extension cord ? If so is it a certain kind/type ?

And is it plugged into the original cord in the seat or an all new cord in general ?

Hi Tigger,

The white cord is just a plain old 5m extension cord. The bike has an inbuilt charger and has a 1m curly cord. I have plugged that curly cord into a KWH meter (to count my charging costs) and an extension cord from the KWh meter to go into a power point.

As for trying to understand volts, amps, kw's etc. As a general rule of thumb, it works like this.

VOLTS = Top Speed
AMPS = Acceleration
POWER = VOLT x AMPS = WATTS

example: a 10,000W bike

At 36v (278 AMPS) would have INSANE acceleration but a low top speed
At 48v (208 AMPS) would have GREAT acceleration but would top out around 50km/h
At 96V (104 AMPS) would have OK acceleration but would allow speeds up to and over 100km/h
At 144v (69AMPS) would have meh acceleration but would have the highest top speed

So as you can see, you can't judge a bike on WATTS alone. Anything over 150Amps is quick acceleration. 200Amps is frightening acceleration, 300Amps is AWESOME acceleration. But the more AMPS you pull, the thicker the wire will need to be.

I know this example doesn't follow all rules, it was just used as an example.

My 8000w scooter
72v (115 AMPS) has Good acceleration but because of the 72v it struggles to stay above 80km/h. 0-80km/h is perfect as far as acceleration goes for me. And luckily 99% of my riding is 80km/h or lower.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Thanks for the Information. I now have a better idea (with your examples) how it is put together.

I thought that your Controller is a 350 A Sevcon. Or is it that your battery is a 50 Ah ?
This is where I start to get confused

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

tigger, Ampere (A) is the unit for electrical current, just like the water running out of faucet. The Sevcon controller in Phil's scooter is capable of delivering an electrical current of up to 350A to the motor, but it is limited by programming to just 115A or so.
And yes, the cells in his battery have a nominal capacity of 50Ah, meaning they can deliver an electrical current of 50A for the duration of 1h. If more current is drawn from the battery it will run out of charge after less than 1h.

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I thought that your Controller is a 350 A Sevcon

Yes my controller is capable of putting out 350Amps, but software limits it to 115A to not stress the batteries.

Or is it that your battery is a 50 Ah?

Yes my Battery pack is 50Ah capacity (think of it like a 50 Litre petrol tank)

The batteries are rated for 6C. This means they can deliver 6 x their capacity (6 x 50Ah = 300Amps). But they will last longer if you keep them under 3C (3x50=150Amps) which is why the software limits the power to 115 Amps, this means you sacrifice ACCELERATION for longer BATTERY LIFE. It's like a petrol engine, if you drive in 1st gear all the time at 7000rpm red line, the engine won't last long. But driving the car normally at 1700rpm, you lose ACCELERATION but your engine will last longer.

This is where I start to get confused

Think of "Ah" as LITRES of petrol (capacity)
Volts as TOP SPEED
AMPS as ACCELERATION

I hope this simplifies some things for you. I have already blown motors, batteries, melted wires and short circuited batteries so you don't have to. I've only been into EV stuff for 6 years, but once I had a ride in a TESLA and felt the power....it blew away any other "muscle car" I've been in before...I was converted. These scooters are not break neck fast but now I just love the instant power, quiet ride, and I LOVE the 'whine' that comes from a brushless motor, it seriously sounds like a jet turbine. And the fact I can 'fill up' at home is far more convenient than going out of my way to a petrol station.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

tigger19687
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Funny, I thought it was the Controller that limited that and had written it but deleted it in case I was wrong.

But now I understand the 6C and how the Ah works for the battery.

yes I too am looking forward to riding the Electric but I may have to wait a little longer to save money and get better Sevcon and the new CHL batteries.
And then there is the issue that I am on the East coast of the US so I have to find out about Ports and shipping to me inland.

I think I will be cut/paste info that you have put on here about the VK2008 into a Word doc for me to look at if I need it.

Again, Thank you for posting all of this :)

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

To clearify, in Phils scooter there is an additional system of electronics and software that controls the controller (and other things) called "Plugin Drive Tech".
The normal "Mountain" scooters does not have this.
F.ex. I have the 180A max Sevcon controller and this is not regulated by any other things, so it delivers the full 180A (1min) and that means a max effect of 13.5kW. This is not only an advantage though as Phil pointed out, the batteries are stressed more and also the motor which is only designed for 8kW. Once I did a couple of full accellerations after each other with a passenger and when I stopped I could smell hot electrics/electronics :-).
Of course there is an easy solution, turn your wrist a little bit slower ;-)

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Of course there is an easy solution, turn your wrist a little bit slower ;-)

Yep, did some of that today. My scoot passed it's first biennial road-worthiness inspection, and my ride to work was lengthened from 12km to 35. And the first 15km was full-bore on the Autobahn, though the whole stretch was limited to just 80km/h so I wasn't that much of a road block with my 76 to 79km/h. The ride from the inspection to work was mixed city and country riding, with a docile right wrist. I did completely recharge at work, but with in the end just 29Ah used for the whole 44km roundtrip I would have probably barely made it on just one charge.
Had I taken the second and third ride in full stride that would have cost me 35Ah for sure, which is the point where the BMS shuts down the controller even with little load.

The findings of the inspection: perfectly adjusted head bearing (that was a piece of hard work, but well worth the effort - a rock-solid feeling!!!) and almost good as new disc brakes, regen be thanked, despite over 9000km on the clock.
The examiner also rode around the compound for some braking tests and was greatly surprised at the instant acceleration, the immediate reaction to RH wrist flicking :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Update: 14 March 2013 @ 9955km

Ok, you two with 180A are making me jealous now. Lol. My scoot does lurch a bit, but nothing like your's must. This is why I built a home made Dirt-bike. It's an old Suzuki 400 with a 12,000W motor and chain with rediculous 6:1 gear ratio. Seeing that thing suck 300AMPS from the CHL cells is great!! Lurch is so good, tires nearly come off the ground. Does a burn out so well it tore up the road and dug a hole through to the dirt underneath.

Here's what 48v, 300Amps looks like. Mind you, doing a burnout only took about 100Amps...
Scrappy Burnout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh2dG4D8ueI

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

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