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Thanks Alun, once again. Will try this and see if I can get up to 1.4v each cell.
Hi Alun. I took photos as I took the x9 cell pack apart to charge and replace iffy cells. I have done this and after trickle charging all the packs, seem to be good on voltage and need to reassemble the box of x9 cell packs, the rear box. My photos have all gone. Do you have any to help me put it back together correctly with the x3 levels, bottom row 1, middle row and top row plus the with temp sensor positioning throughout?
I don't have any photos of my own battery as it hasn't been dismantled yet, but hopefully some of these random photos that I have saved from various other posts will help:
You can also take a look at Ben's battery removal video to see how the two main battery units were originally fitted.
Good luck with the battery reassembly.
Thank you Alun. The circuit diagram is particularly helpful. I don’t remember ever seeing R1, R,2, R3, R4 which appear to be linked to the rear temp sensor cable. Also both of mine are black. Not a white one on the front x8 set. Do you think this will be an issue. It looks like it has been fixed in the past by someone. I had this bike second hand but worked great for a couple years prior to sitting in my garage for a few years unused. Is the location of each sensor critical or not that important?
In case anyone is interested, I’m selling the battery pack and BMS from my VX Li+ on ebay following a Leaf upgrade
You can message me here if you have any questions.
This post needs to be added to the Vectrix Collaborative Handbook
I also own a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and a 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev
Why did you replace a native Li system with a homebrew one? Why not reuse the BMS? I thought the Vectrix one was customizable to any size pack...
I am doing the same upgrade right now, just finishing testing the batteries I got. Any thing to watch out for?
Owner in Bristol, UK. I was originally the UK Sales Manager for Vectrix and have a 2008 in Gulf Colours .
I was using until a couple of years back, getting Batt Hot (temp sensors). Then wouldn't charge because of it and have left for a while. Plug in and hear the charger click into life- but think the battery level has dropped and needs a boost. Is anyone aware of any Vectrix Technicians still around?
I have edited the diagram to avoid any confusion, as I seem to recall that the resistors were part of a simple voltage comparison circuit which may not be used on all packs:
I don't know if the colour of the wires on the temperature sensors really matters, but the front and rear temperature boards must be slightly different in some respect as they are listed separately (and at different prices) on the Vectrixparts website.
If your bike had been working fine for a couple of years, they must have been OK to start with, but that doesn't mean that they will still be working correctly now.
Your original charging problem could have been caused by faulty temperature sensors like mine was.
From all of the pictures I have seen, the temperature sensors are typically installed on the inner terminal on the 5th cell back from the front row of each module block, presumably because the battery will get hotter in the middle of the pack.
With The Laird's modified charger firmware installed, my Vectrix (that is still equipped with its original the temperature sensors) no longer overheats during the charging process, so I guess the position of the sensors is no longer that important (especially when they are no longer connected, like the ones on my other Vectrix).
Unfortunately, Vectrix technicians in the UK seem to be as rare as hen's teeth.
Even Emissions Free Solutions have now "ceased our involvement with all aspects of the sales and service of Vectrix Electric scooters".
If you're very lucky, you might find a UK member of this forum who is located near Bristol and able to assist.
Alex at AMF Automotive is doing Vectrix repairs. He’s based in Dartford. 07860775220
We have moved to Tonrbidge, but have lots of transporters that can help with collection and drop off.
Best to call the office number, as I am often under vehicles - 0203 384 4644
As above Alex i now consider point of contact for vectrix service in the Uk
Bit of a long way from me in Carlisle butworth the trip if needed to
I was using until a couple of years back, getting Batt Hot (temp sensors). Then wouldn't charge because of it and have left for a while.
I suspect that the temperature sensors will have been affected by damp and corrosion like mine were:
When I first had my Blue Vectrix it would only charge for about 5 minutes and would then cut out.
After both temperature sensor boards were disconnected it was able to charge normally (except for the flashing battery and temperature warning lights).
Check out this post for more information.
Check out this thread for a simple way to resurect a NiMH battery that has been left uncharged for too long.
Thanks Alun. Will check the sensor circuit boards for corrosion/damage, clean and fix if needed or possible and refit as per your directions (cell 5, centre). It does make sense to be centrally located for the hottest position. If the sensors appear to show a problem I may try and purchase new front and rear sensors. Fingers crossed. I have a few x8 sets to bring up to correct voltage. The x9’s all seem close to 12.6 v after taken off very long trickle charge for a week. A couple are back down to 12.10v and 12.21v but don’t seem too bad.
Hi Leafnut and all im Chris and live in Burton on Trent midlands and have 3x vx1 a stelth black 3 miles, a Perl white 6000 miles on it . My son desided he wanted more range and a good idea to connect a second battery from a Honda insight hybrid in parallel to the existing battery it ended badly and is all so now a non runner and a green bike never ran and needs lots doing to it but would like to put the white vx all on original battery's regards Chris.
What has died on the White one? Is it wiring, battery, controller, charger, fuse or something else?
If the battery that is in the green one still complete and untouched, it may be possible to revive and it and use it in the white one.
Welcome and looks like your keeping busy on the scooters.
Dont know anyone with 2 let alone 3 so very lucky
Plenty experience on here some have been on a long time like alan above (bikemad) etc
Hi Alan im not sure what is wrong with it .it was running grate and gave it to my lad to use then and as it was charging the second pack heated up and was smoking so ripped them out on to the floor and cut the 2 wires it didn't do anything after that iv removed the charger and motor controller and nothing looks burnt or damaged but its electronic and beyond my knowledge regards chris.
Hi John this may sound strange but how do i find the whatsapp group im ok with striping and tinkering rebuilding and basic electrics but phones are another world to me i need to ask my lad regards chris
The Vectrix battery has 102 NiMH 30Ah cells, giving a nominal voltage of 122.4V and a maximum charging voltage of ~153V from the standard Vectrix charging software.
The early Insight battery had 84 6.5Ah NiMH cells, giving a nominal voltage of 100.8V and a typical maximum charging voltage of 118~134V (1.4~1.6V/cell).
As you can see from the above voltages, connecting these batteries together was not going to end well. I'm not surprised that it started smoking if the Vectrix charger was trying to force up to 153V into a 100.8V battery pack.
One inherent risk with NiMH chemistry is that overcharging causes hydrogen gas to form, potentially rupturing the cell. Therefore, cells have a vent to release the gas in the event of serious overcharging.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that even if the packs had the same number of cells and were the same nominal voltage, it's still not a good idea to charge two NiMH packs while they are connected together in parallel. Any variation in their internal resistance can cause one pack to reach its fully charged voltage (where the voltage would typically begin to drop) before the other. This causes the fully charged pack to be overcharged by the other pack, which can result in thermal runaway, possibly causing the overcharged cells to self ignite.
Although I can understand how the Insight pack would have been damaged, I don't understand why the vectrix would suddenly stop working just by disconnecting the additional pack.
If the original battery was disconnected from the controller before the additional battery was connected, it may be possible that the controller could have been damaged when it was reconnected if a suitable light bulb or resistor etc. was not used to limit the inrush current.
Hi Alan yes you are correct with the results my lad put the Insight pack under the seat not secured but held in a group by tape matched the cell count of 102 but after charging and running a few times the insulation between the cells broke down with heat and vibration and some of the cells were shorting between each other. the main drive battery was not cut off.
I removed the hot cell very quickly with my bike gloves on i was in quite a panic at the time and moor
than likely cursed a shourt on the frame at some point.
Apparently it is a big mistake to charge NiMH in parallel something to do with internal resistance i will learn from my mistakes.
I still have one fully functional do you think i can swap parts one at a time to test if any of them still work or would there by any software conflicts as i dont want to kill another vx1 regards chris
I suggest that you start by checking the battery voltage to see if it has been discharged below 100V and preventing the bike from booting up and also preventing the charger from working.
If you have the silver ESD charger, you can easily check the battery voltage on the Battery connector going to the charger:The charged voltage of a Vectrix Battery can be more than enough to cause severe injury or even result in death...
If you are not 100% sure of what you are doing, please don't try any of the following suggestions involving mains AC voltages or high DC battery voltages!
Check out this post for more details on accessing the ESD Battery supply connector and measuring the battery voltage.
If it shows no voltage whatsoever and you know that the battery is not completely flat, it is likely to be one or both of the 25A charger fuses on the controller that will have blown.
If the battery voltage is OK, check the continuity of the other small fuses on the controller to see if any are blown (The four 40A capacitor fuses and the 7.5A ICM fuse) and also check the 200A main fuse.
Check out this video from Vectrixparts.com for more information on these fuses.
I'd be reluctant to start swapping components as I would be concerned that they could also be affected by whatever is causing the problem.
Make sure that you some form of inrush current limiter when reconnecting the battery to the controller.
Check out this thread for more details and you can watch a video of it being performed here.
Hi Alan and all hope your all well i have been busy collecting the parts from different lockups .The good black V is up and running went for a short blast now it has 8 miles on it .
I have and at the very least i have a damaged motor controller and possibly the ICM at the top of th MC near the data connection there is a fair amount if scorching and what looks like at least 1 maybe 2 blown components and a copper track that has burnt away i would post pictures but not Shaw how .
All battery's are holding voltage but not sure on capacity think ill strip them and test in the blocks put them under a 1 c test.
Is there any one who fixes this sort of damage on boards.
The Short term plan is to hopefully get this white V running then over winter do a lithium up grade for beter range.
It looks like ill have to strip the parts bike and look over the parts on that for any damage and reassemble the white V regards chris
ps is there anything like a factory manual for reassembling the bike eg tourk settings ect
To add pictures, you will first need to upload them to a photo sharing site like Imgur.
It's free to join and I've been using it without problem since Photobucket held all my photos hosted on their site to ransom.
You simply upload your Photos using drag'n' drop (or "ctrl" & "V" to paste the contents of your clipboard) and then click on the uploaded image and copy the "BBCode (message boards & forums)" link and then paste the link into the comment box.
Regarding the manual, check out the VX-1 Service Manual thread for more details.
Please don't use external photo hosting sites, as mentioned above, they go out of business and then the bulk of your information goes away and no one has a way to bring that part of the site back up.
To upload a photo as part of your message (random photo of my house):
Just select the photo icon in the upper left when editing a post. Then hit browse that will show you all the photos you have uploaded, then hit upload in the upper left again and it will prompt you for a new photo to upload. It will resize it to 500x500
Hi Alan thanks for that im very new to this stuff so a learning slowly ill try again with the pic regards chris
F7 and F8 are 0.5A resettable fuses, but there's definitely no way that F8 is likely to reset itself ever again.
It almost looks like something has managed to find its way into the controller and shorted against the circuit board, blowing components and tracks in the process.
It's difficult to say what other components may also have suffered, as the amount of current that has caused the obvious damage on the controller board may well have damaged the internal workings of other components that still appear to be physically unharmed on the outside.
What makes you think you might also have a problem with the ICM?
Hi Alan thank you for your help with the piks. im not sure about the ICM but as you say that amount of power/ current could have dun all sorts of other damage as its right next to the can system . i opened up the ICM all looks clean .
Later if i get the chance ill strip the MC and ICM from the other bike and fit then with its original charger to see where i am then .
My options are going forward at the moment and getting it running with NIMH or go for the lithium conversion any thoughts any body.
Is there anyone on the forum who has a new V with the Lithium – Ion Battery and 3.3 kw charger ? are they any moor reliable than the old modles .
looks like a good day regards chris
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