Yeah, at 72v or 84v turning the throttle does nothing. It was running great at 84v until I let off the throttle going down a hill. Coming out of the hill the throttle did nothing. I think back emf from the motor got too high coming down the hill at over 40mph and letting off the throttle too fast, thus shorting something in the controller. The problem is, I'm not sure how to see if the controller is working. Everything else is still working fine. The gauges are all normal, voltage gauge is showing 92.6v and spinning the wheel shows a reading on the speedometer. Also, if I disconnect any of the phase wires from the motor(yellow, blue, green) and hook up my multimeter, spinning the wheel will show a voltage of .3-1v even barely spinning. This why I don't think it's the motor. It could be the hall effect sensors, but I'm not sure how to test them either. If anyone has any ideas let me know. I'd really rather not open the motor up, because I'd like to keep it factory weatherproof. Basically I need some input on how to test the hall effect sensors and the controller. I tried unplugging and metering a few of the controllers wires, but I wasn't getting any readings. What's weird is the controller looks perfect inside. Anyway, let me know if you have any ideas while I keep googling for answers, LOL.
Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.
Did some more testing. The throttle is showing 650ohm resistance- turning it does not change this. The six pin connector(hall effect wires) red and black are not getting any voltage and from what I've found online it should read 5v. Anyone know what these two things could mean? Is the throttle causing a problem or is 650ohms the normal resistance? Is the controller fried thus not giving the motor any voltage or is one affecting the other??? I'm stumped at the moment.
P.S. Woo! Hoo! 2 forum pages!
Well, before you mentioned the bit about the throttle not changing, and not having voltage, I would have guessed that you should measure the voltage using an AC volt meter on the drive wires going to the motor, to see if there is one phase that is missing, which would give you a hint as to which FET or FETs were fried. But now, It sounds like you might have fried the 5 volt regulator in the controller, so that is something you can look at. Alternatively you could buy an extra controller, and reduce the bike to 48 volts and see if the moor runs then. If not, then it is probably the motor.
Or, you could just try to buy a higher wattage controller and dump the old one. I wouldn't worry about the hall effect sensors, they are not subject to any of the over voltage that the drive is getting, they only look at motion, so I think it is unlikely that the halls are fried.
Just my thoughts,
Thanks Tom, I'll check into that. It looks like kelly controllers is stepping into the e-bike market. Look at these controllers and motors. 72v 100a controller for $199 and 4.5kw 72v hub motors for $449 and some even cheaper! Very nice.http://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/?mod=product&cat_id=41,39&product_id=525
23mph at 48v?! That's not much better than the $90 600watt motors from x-treme.
Only if you're relying on the stock speedometer, which is way off. At 48volts my 600w XB-600 motor only reaches 17.5mph on level ground when measured by a bike computer.
I just talked on the phone with Al ( cruisin [at] live.com ) He's a super nice and knowledgeable guy. If you need parts you should definitely check with him first. His prices are good too. He has dc-dc converters, controllers, lithium ion packs, motors and all.
That controller and hub motor look pretty good, but I think drawing 100 Amps from the little 20 Amp batteries might shorten their life a bit.
Of course, a 4.5kw motor would only draw 60 amps or so, but that is still way more than these poor little 20 Amp batteries would like,
Also, I would just mod the controller, it's pretty easy to change capacitors, and the mosfets are rated 75v, so you could always try leaving them in like another modder on here did. As far as I know, he's still running 72v on the stock mosfets.
So the mosfets and Caps are the only part that would blow up in the controller??
So if I just ordered them b4 I went to 72V I could just replace them and be up and running if they blow???
Dave ; Tennessee
As zerogas has said in an earlier post, when he talked about going to 84 volts, and had something quit after a few minutes of running, the mosfets and caps are probably not the only things that can blow. In one of my earlier posts, I mentioned that there must be an internal voltage regulator to supply low voltage to the controllers digital electronics, and it is possible that it blew, because 84 volts being double 48 volts means that an analog regulator would be dissipating far more wattage than it was designed for.
So, we all need to remember that these are fun but dangerous (to the electronics) experiments. I bought an extra controller, so I could experiment with one, and have a spare, just in case.
Wow...just catching up on everything you guys have been doing with the xb600. Mine doesn't get ridden much these days. Been off here pretty much since last July. Long story...but now divorced and sole parent to my 7 year old little girl. Anyway, life goes on... I never even got to do the shunt mod yet...but will get to it. I tried to think about my scoot and keep it charged during these long months I haven't ridden it. I have ridden a few times and everything seems fine. I ride with my kid sitting in front of me. She loves riding with me around the neighborhood. Course I put a bike helmet on her for safety...and my neighborhood has such little vehicle traffic. Anyway, I do notice some loss it seems in range since I let it sit alot. Just haven't had a chance to really test it. I'd say though I'm still getting about minimum 20 miles range. Glad to get a chance to hop back on the forum and catch up on the news. I still remain very impressed with the xb600 holding up so well. My charger for those who may recall last year...when I last posted...is still making alot of noise...but apparently still charging ok. I still get the same readings at full charge when I check with a voltmeter as I did brand new...
Don't mean to stray off the xb600 but did anyone see the recent program on Discovery channel about monster trucks...those big dump trucks used in mining? Now if those are not a testament to electric powered vehicles I don't know what is! They weigh over 600 tons loaded and they are powered by a huge diesel engine that generates power for electric wheel type motors in each of those monstrous wheels!
Did you ever think about improving the aerodynamics of the scooter? I am thinking that even a nice short windshield might help.
Hey Gus, I've been wondering where you went. Anyhow, welcome back.
This is the best CONTROLLER for your applications up to 72V 45amp. Auto sensing for brushless motor making it much easier to install. Can also be odered with a reverse mode and regeneration. Still available here allanbull [at] sbcglobal.net for around $125. Picture provided by cruisin [at] live.com
As a new XB owner I've been following your exploits with xtreme interest. I got the shunt mod installed with good results. Ordering parts now to handle the voltage upgrade. Got a flat the other day so I ordered a couple of the cheng shin tires you recommended, VERY nice tires and a great price. Only problem is Xtreme is out of stock on the rear tubes with the angle valve, so I am stuck waiting until more arrive. Ive been looking around for an alternate source with no luck. Suppliers seem to have different methods of sizing them.
Our stock tires are listed as 16 x 3.0, while the cheng shin are listed as 3.00 - 12. This seems to confuse the suppliers I spoke to. With your experience in the tire biz maybe you could help clarify? From what I see, the rims are 12" and the tires have an outside diameter of 16". Online listings of tubes for sale do not specify which measurement they are going by, so a phone call is needed to find out for each supplier. Nonetheless, no tubes with angle valve are available in either category.
So I am stuck waiting. Thanks for the tip on these tires, I would never have known they fit without your tip.
Mike - Oregon XB-508 with after- market 800watt motor and 72V upgrade
(Thanks to Member tips on V is for Voltage!)
Just go to Wal-Mart and buy the 12" bicycle tube. You can find them in the toy department near the bike helmets and accessories. They are pretty much the same, only the valve isn't bent. I don't think it would give you much of a problem though. I'm still waiting on my front fairing replacement (over a year) so don't hold your breath on X-treme getting stock on anything. :(
So whats the latest on the Zeromobile?!?!?!?!
I sent an email over the weekend asking them nicely to please expedite as I am unable to ride without it, and could they recommend another source for the rear tube? Lo and behold just got an email saying they had just shipped it. Yeehaa! Figures cause I had just managed to find one on ebay and bought it. Ah well nice to have a spare.
I've been drooling over the Kelly's controllers and motors link you posted. 3K and beyond at 72 volt?? NOW were talkin!! The limiting factor of course is our batteries. In that range we are looking at about a 5 minute ride. :)
I've been looking at the Lipo4 batteries on ebay and from what I gather, they are 1/2 the size and weight of lead acid, meaning in theory we could put 2 packs in place of the current one with no increase in weight. We could then at least go double the wattage of our current motors without losing any range/ride time.
Hmmm now if I pack the rear trunk and under seat storage with those also, that should be enough for that 72V 6Kw motor!! Video of burning rubber and wheelies would be in order Im sure. :)
The package arrived from xtreme... with 2 front tubes instead of one of each that I ordered, of course, since what I needed was the rear. Hah! Oh well luckily I found a guy on ebay who has the right size with angle valve. Which allowed me to finally try on the cheng shin tires.
All I can say is wow! Anyone riding the stock XB tires will notice a major improvement in ride. Very smooth and a bit of cushion is the feel. Cornering also feels much better.
And secondly they have about 5 times the tread depth (and tread coverage), so chances of getting a flat are greatly reduced. At 15 bucks each these are an excellent buy.
Mosfets and caps are on the way!
These tires realllllly make the xb 600 feel more stable in corners. I will definitely agree with you on that. Email cruisin [at] live.com for Lithium packs. He has some really good prices. I will order a controller from him (Al) to get my xb 600 back on the road soon I hope. I knew better than to try 84v :D
"I knew better than to try 84v :D"
Well somebody was going to try it sooner or later. And I don't think there was much question as to who it was going to be! ;D
Last of my upgrade parts for 72v mod arrived today so I'm warming up the solder iron.
I've been looking around at windshields that fit the XB's, and so far the cheapest is on ebay - 9 inches tall by 16 inches wide - $40. Up here I need all the protection I can get, and so far the biggest best deal is 23.50" W x 23" H - $92.98.
Anyone else been seen any deals?
OK the iron's hot, gotta scoot!
Don't keep us in suspense!!! How did your mods turn out? lol
Sorry for the delay. Ive been waiting for a friend to follow and clock me on his speedometer so I can report new speed. Haven't had a chance yet so will post the results on that later.
All mods are working great! I lifted one pad when unsoldering the old mosfets so I took Richard's advice and switched to a 60 watt iron when working on the small pins of the mosfets. I was able to repair the pad and got everything replaced fine. My first mod a while back was the shunt mod and going to 60 volts with no component changes. It ran fine for a couple days (cool ones) but the first warm day I started getting intermittent full cutouts. So I went back to 48 volts with the stock controller and everything was fine, other than having blown the zener diode on the charge level meter. Then I went one mod at a time to check performance. Shunt mod performed great at 48v. Then caps and mosfet upgrades. Even at 48v I noticed an increase in hill climbing, no doubt due to the larrger caps. Then I went 60 then 72 volts. Still all a-ok.
So now I've been riding it to work and back every day for 2 weeks and still rock solid! The improvement from when I first got it to now is incredible. I can now take the various hills I encounter with no problem. All mods are installed and running at 72 volts every day for 2 weeks now no problem. Even a few runs on the weekend continuous until the batteries started running low, and still the motor was only slightly warm no problem. The new power and speed combined with the improved ride from the new tires make this thing a gas (sic) to ride now! Traffic hassles from being an impedance are gone!!
Latest improvement I did was change the cheap fuse holder going to the control panel with a nice sturdy one. While I was at it and in there, I decided to replace any unnecessary connectors with a nice solder joint for reliability under vibration as well as better current flow. Same for spade/lug connectors bolted onto terminal posts for my battery connections. Straight solder joint to the posts! Also thicker wire anywhere I deemed needed. A test ride after this, at once suddenly felt just a hair faster and stronger. Lo and behold the speedometer now shows a 1.5 mph increase! I don't have measurements on exact speed as of yet since we know how inaccurate the speedometers are. But when I got it stock at 48v, it reported 21 mph top speed, at 60v it reported 28mph, now at 72v it reported 35mph until the new connections, now reporting 36.5!
Finally, I would thank all who have shared tips, info and ideas to this forum!
Is those speed calculated with a bike speedometer? Or with the speedometer on the Xb ?
Is someone as try to change only the capacitors for the 72v mod ??
Those are the speeds being reported by the speedometer on the XB.
I HIGHLY recommend the shunt and 72 volt mod to anyone with an XB series bike! Same goes for the new cheng shin tires Warren came up with. I have just heard from yet another XB owner who installed these tires who wrote back and said " you were right!" concerning the VAST improvement in ride and cornering ability with them installed.
Here in Portland they have invested heavily in not only bike lanes on most all roads, but also in MUP (Multiple Use Paths) which are basically little paved asphalt roads about a 1/2 of a car width wide that cut through forests and all kinds of land, no cars anywhere. Joggers, bikers, dog walkers etc., all share these "paths" which are also very extensive around the city. From what I understand we lead the nation in such a network. If your curious here's how it looks (I'm in the outer southeast area).http://www.portlandonline.com/TRANSPORTATION/index.cfm?a=70221&c=34809#nhood.maps
Bottom line is I now have pretty much my own private road back and forth to work with NO traffic! Once in a while a jogger or cyclist with a shocked look on their face as I spin the pedals once or twice for them lol!
At first they all want to jump my case for riding a motorcycle on their precious path, but -most- shut up when I spin the pedals.
But 99% of the time I have it completely to myself as I sail along with a smile on my face.
Nice job, Mike.
I'm still down as I have been busy lately and haven't had much time to think about the old xb. I'll probably order a stock controller and re-mod it, if I don't order one from Al(cruisin [at] live.com). Hope all is well, keep scootin!
Looks like Kelly controllers is stepping into the market with alot of offerings. www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=60&products_id=506 Check this out modders!
I did it, I went for 84v, but the scooter didn't like it. At first it went a solid 40mph on the speedo, but after about 10 minutes of riding, I lost the throttle completely. The bike was still on and the amp and voltage gauge were still showing pack voltage and amps, but turning the throttle does nothing. I let off of it going down a small hill and coming out of the hill, I hit the throttle and nothing happened. No fuses are blown. The controller looks fine inside as expected with 100v FETs and CAPs. All I can assume is that I finally found the limit on the 600 watt hub motor lol!
When I re-wired my xb-500, added batteries for 72V, and modded the controller to take the extra voltage, I changed the wiring so that the full 72V was not sent to the ignition. Instead, I sent only 48V to the ignition switch, which in turn, sends 48V to the CONTROL input of the controller. this pin feeds all the circuits and regulators which power the chips on the controller board. My reasoning was two-fold. 1. Supplying only 48V to the ignition switch also supplies only 48V to the DC-DC Converter, making it unnecessary to go to a higher rated converter. 2. The regulators inside the controller need to absorb the difference between 5V and the supply voltage. Some of them may not be rated high enough to withstand 84V supply.
You might try measuring the supply pin that furnishes 5V to your throttle to see if that is still available. If not, your problem is probably a blown controller. I doubt you would have fired your motor, since you are still getting back EMF when you spin the motor.
Waste Not, Want Not
But someone on this forum says the Mosfets are rated 72v. So if i change only the capacitors, all will work...right ?
I have heard rumors that some here have run at 72V with all stock in the controller. But actually, it is usually the mosfets that fail first, the capacitors normally handle the extra voltage better.
But someone on this forum says the Mosfets are rated 72v. So if i change only the capacitors, all will work...right ?
Not correct!. A fully charged pack of 6 SLA batteries will deliver 13.8 volts/cell, or 82.8 volts. That's far beyond the rating of either the Fets or the Caps.
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